I am really having trouble processing in a way that keeps the image as vibrant as my psd file when I am posting on this site. Some of the images I'm posting lately really show a major drop in contrast and saturation--I think it has something to do with how bright and colorful an image is to start with. I just posted an image "the way" in the 'man and nature" gallery and couldn't believe how flat it was. I deleted it immediately and did a major curves adjustment (so much that it looked completely unnatural before posting) and when I reposted, it was still less vibrant than the psd file it started from.
Here's my simple process. File comes in raw, I process in RGB (I'm always in RGB) in PSCS2, I 'save as' a jpg or 'save for web' as a jpg. That file looks great on my computer. Then I post that to NPN and view it and it really looks flat.
What's going on here? How do I fix it?
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Posted by David Prichard on September 17, 2007 at 12:55 PM
...and it really made the difference! There is maybe a tiny difference in saturation between the post and the source image, but it's almost negligable. Thanks for the link!
And if anyone else is having the problem I was and is using PS CS2, the 'Convert to Profile' option is in the 'edit' menu, not the 'image' menu.
Posted by Greg Cope on September 17, 2007 at 4:33 PM
I do the same thing, and then some. For some of my photos they are fine, for others the web versions change in hue and saturation, even though I'm in sRGB.
The problem is that most web browsers aren't color managed, so while you can embed an sRGB color profile, only for a few (safari on a mac is one) web browsers will actually display it right. Most others will display the sRGB numbers - with no rgb conversion - as your monitor profile (essentially 'assigning' your monitor profile to the image). Sometimes this will have minor effects on color and other times not. My personal solution is to soft proof my image using my monitor profile with preserve RGB numbers checked. In this proof it will show you how the browser will display it, and you can make small changes to bring them back. Then I save (still in sRGB) without a color profile so color managed applications don't kill the colors.
I have a short tutorial on my webpage in the articles section about this, its up to you whether you want to try it or not. I've heard some folks frown on this technique without ever even trying it, but its worked for me, comparing my original and proofed images on over half a dozen calibrated and uncalibrated monitors....at least, I think its worked for me haha
Posted by Jim Erhardt on September 18, 2007 at 8:14 AM
This is a thread worthy of keeping at the top as the question of preparing photos for display on NPN comes up frequently. I will add a few general points on the topic;
1. Be sure to review the Posting Guidelines. Maximum size is 720 pixels, including any borders or "frames." Maximum file size is 200kb.
2. The file must be saved as a sRGB JPEG.
3. For Photoshop users, the easiest way is to use the "save for web" option under the "file" tab.
I invite all to post their tips/suggestion!
Posted by Larry Reitz on September 28, 2007 at 2:35 PM
This thread and the others if references has been an enormous help. Thank you to all who took the time to comment. Hopefully I can help someone in a similar matter some day.
Posted by Mia McPherson on December 4, 2007 at 8:02 PM
Thanks for this thread, I thought I was going bonkers because colors we so different when I went to save images! Got that sorted now.
Posted by Ed Cordes on December 27, 2007 at 10:39 PM
Jim, in #2 did you mean to say "sRGB"? I have always converted my color space to sRGB for posting and it has worked great.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on December 28, 2007 at 6:02 AM
Ed, that is correct. I have updated my post with the correction.
I am facing the same problem.
Before I save the file for web, I always change the Color Profile into sRGB. However, I always notice a significant drop in color saturation even before I click OK in the Assign Profile dialog box, which means that the problem is highly likely attributable to selecting the right color profile.
I use CS2 for processing and I found two versions of sRGB; namely e-sRGB and sRGB IEC61966-2.1. I always select sRGB IEC61966-2.1. Is is the best sRGB profile or you advice me of a better one?
A. Khamis - I don't have CS2 or CS3, so I can't check, but I think there are two different options - assign profile, and convert to profile. You need to make sure you are converting to sRGB and not just assigning sRGB to your image. If you're converting, it will translate the colors to make them as close as possible in the new profile. If you are assigning, it will just read the current color data as sRGB data, which isn't correct (and that's similar to what happens if you post a different colorspace online).
David ... thank you VERY MUCH.
You are absolutely right. In Photoshop CS2, there are two different options under the Edit menu: Assign Profile and Convert to Profile. I always use "Assign Profile" which caused the problem. Convert to Profile solved it.
Many thanks again.
Thanks for the help! I was going to post the color question here and here it was - asked and answered. And thanks to Jim for making this this topic stay at the top of the list. I guess it's been here for almost a year, but I hadn't read it.
1) Do you convert to sRGB? If not, your web version will look way flatter. Yes, most browsers are not color aware (except Safari and Firefox 3) but if you don't convert to sRGB your image will loose color and contrast. You don't have to embed the profile, but you have to convert.
2) Do you calibrate your monitor? If so, are you sure you have a reasonably accurate calibration? Photoshop automatically corrects for certain parts of your calibration, such as the tone response (i,. gamma) - the tone response for photoshop is set in photoshop - usually 2o2 gamma - if you calibrate your monitor to 1o8 gamma, you won't see it in photoshop (unless you set 1o8 gamma there too), but you will see the transition to 1o8 gamma in the save for web preview - that will make the image loose contrast.
3) If you convert to sRGB - how do you do it? You need to use the convert to profile command - no the assign profile command.
4) Do you have a wide gamut monitor - i.e. more thsn sRGB? If so, you will see a marked difference in a sRGB image viewed through a non color managed application - such as internet explorer (will be more saturated) than in photoshop. However the trend here is opposite to what you see.
Brian, If you prepare your images in PS CS4 I just posted instructions on how to prepare the image for posting. My post is the one directly after yours. "Beginners luck - Posting (Found Instructions)"
JOIN the club! Mine looks just right on a meticulously calibrated monitor then people throw out comments like "over processed", "colors too saturated" and so forth. I HATE IE. Firefox does a much better job but still other issues are going on like what gamut mode in their monitor people are viewing your work through. It is all frustrating.
It takes you step by step through the preparation process.
It made a massive difference to the way my images looked and I recommend it to anyone having problems.
Discussion
18 repliesHere's my simple process. File comes in raw, I process in RGB (I'm always in RGB) in PSCS2, I 'save as' a jpg or 'save for web' as a jpg. That file looks great on my computer. Then I post that to NPN and view it and it really looks flat.
What's going on here? How do I fix it?
Thanks for any help you can provide.
See http://www.naturephotographers.net/imagecritique/bbs.cgi?a=vm&mr=21666&b=va&st=40&la=3060&ph=51&sid=26974&u=27322
It was a solution that works for me.
And if anyone else is having the problem I was and is using PS CS2, the 'Convert to Profile' option is in the 'edit' menu, not the 'image' menu.
The problem is that most web browsers aren't color managed, so while you can embed an sRGB color profile, only for a few (safari on a mac is one) web browsers will actually display it right. Most others will display the sRGB numbers - with no rgb conversion - as your monitor profile (essentially 'assigning' your monitor profile to the image). Sometimes this will have minor effects on color and other times not. My personal solution is to soft proof my image using my monitor profile with preserve RGB numbers checked. In this proof it will show you how the browser will display it, and you can make small changes to bring them back. Then I save (still in sRGB) without a color profile so color managed applications don't kill the colors.
I have a short tutorial on my webpage in the articles section about this, its up to you whether you want to try it or not. I've heard some folks frown on this technique without ever even trying it, but its worked for me, comparing my original and proofed images on over half a dozen calibrated and uncalibrated monitors....at least, I think its worked for me
1. Be sure to review the Posting Guidelines. Maximum size is 720 pixels, including any borders or "frames." Maximum file size is 200kb.
2. The file must be saved as a sRGB JPEG.
3. For Photoshop users, the easiest way is to use the "save for web" option under the "file" tab.
I invite all to post their tips/suggestion!
Before I save the file for web, I always change the Color Profile into sRGB. However, I always notice a significant drop in color saturation even before I click OK in the Assign Profile dialog box, which means that the problem is highly likely attributable to selecting the right color profile.
I use CS2 for processing and I found two versions of sRGB; namely e-sRGB and sRGB IEC61966-2.1. I always select sRGB IEC61966-2.1. Is is the best sRGB profile or you advice me of a better one?
Your help is highly appreciated.
You are absolutely right. In Photoshop CS2, there are two different options under the Edit menu: Assign Profile and Convert to Profile. I always use "Assign Profile" which caused the problem. Convert to Profile solved it.
Many thanks again.
Thanks, again!!
There are a number of possibilities:
1) Do you convert to sRGB? If not, your web version will look way flatter. Yes, most browsers are not color aware (except Safari and Firefox 3) but if you don't convert to sRGB your image will loose color and contrast. You don't have to embed the profile, but you have to convert.
2) Do you calibrate your monitor? If so, are you sure you have a reasonably accurate calibration? Photoshop automatically corrects for certain parts of your calibration, such as the tone response (i,. gamma) - the tone response for photoshop is set in photoshop - usually 2o2 gamma - if you calibrate your monitor to 1o8 gamma, you won't see it in photoshop (unless you set 1o8 gamma there too), but you will see the transition to 1o8 gamma in the save for web preview - that will make the image loose contrast.
3) If you convert to sRGB - how do you do it? You need to use the convert to profile command - no the assign profile command.
4) Do you have a wide gamut monitor - i.e. more thsn sRGB? If so, you will see a marked difference in a sRGB image viewed through a non color managed application - such as internet explorer (will be more saturated) than in photoshop. However the trend here is opposite to what you see.
Hope this may be useful.
Cheers,
Christoph
Dottie
There is a link in there to an article by Darwin Wiggett
How To Prepare Your Images For The NPN Forums Using Photoshop Elements
Text and photography copyright © Darwin Wiggett. All rights reserved.
It takes you step by step through the preparation process.
It made a massive difference to the way my images looked and I recommend it to anyone having problems.