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Super Bole +example
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Super Bole +example

by Lon Overacker

Gallery: LandscapePosted February 6, 2016288 views23 comments
Couldn't resist the title!  sad

Been trying to find some time to get back, post some comments and more images.  Been busy, but did manage an overnight trip to Yosemite this last weekend with perfect timing on snow in the valley.  Some images later.

Ok, more aspens.  If you recall an image I posted in M&N a while back, these are the same aspen trunks/boles as the 2 trunks on the left in the other image.  In order to avoid the hand of man and the carvings in the trees, I looked upwards and captured this one.  Given the comments on the previous image (thank you!) I'm not convinced I'm done processing this one, so I would love to get your feedback and suggestions.

This is a 2-image focus stack which has given good front-to-back depth and sharpness.  I'm just wondering though if this is a situation where the bg should go soft?  Hard to tell in these final web versions, but Photoshop didn't do a very good job with the blend.

Your comments, critiques and suggestions always welcome,

NIkon D700
Nikon 28-300 @112mm
2-image focus stack @ f/11

Thanks!

GO BRONCOS!


EDIT: I've noticed with at least my last two images, that what gets displayed after uploading does NOT look the same as when I'm viewing in PS.  I can understand the previous comments about lacking "punch."  I'm guessing this image might get the same reaction, because this looks "flatter" in this post, then when I see it in PS. Putting them side by side makes it clear.  I have no idea if it's me, or something is happening to the image.  Has anyone else noticed or compared?

Comments

23 comments
Comment posted by Roel Wijtmans on February 6, 2016 at 1:52 PM
The softness of the leaves is a nice combination with the hardness of the more contrasty trees. I really like how that turned out! For me, this should be sharp all the way. A blurry background would maybe have worked if the background consisted of only leaves. But in this case, there are several more trees, and it would have looked a bit odd if those would have been out of focus. The fact that everything is sharp makes it look like all is compressed into a single layer, without a sense of depth, and that makes this photo very interesting to me. So I think you made the right choice with the stack! Further processing looks pretty good to me, maybe a bit more contrast couldn't hurt, but this is fine as is!
Registered on September 30, 2012, 116 Posts, 2257 Comments
Comment posted by Roel Wijtmans on February 6, 2016 at 1:54 PM
Regarding your edit, I just compared my latest upload with the same original image in PS, and it looks very similar. Stupid suggestion, but have you by any chance forgotten to convert it to sRGB or something?
Registered on September 30, 2012, 116 Posts, 2257 Comments
Comment posted by Lon Overacker on February 6, 2016 at 1:59 PM
Thanks for your comment Roel.  Yeah, I double checked all that.  check sRGB in Save for web, embed color profile and I also have "optimized" checked.  Actually, the side by side difference isn't glaringly obvious, but it's there, at least what I'm seeing on my monitor.

Thanks!
Registered on November 24, 2006, 521 Posts, 19147 Comments
Comment posted by Stephen Stanton on February 6, 2016 at 4:09 PM
This is a very cool image, Lon. I love the various twigs and small branches (especially on the left side) providing a web like structure to the scene. For sure, I want to see the trunks, and branch segments as much in focus as possible because the small leafs  provide the contrasting softness. Only item is that is a bother to me and it is minor point given the strong impact of the image...is the middle right side of the photo has a tangle of branches , the lack of leafs patterns and colors in this area puts the image a little off balance for me. It does add to the depth of the scene.  
Registered on March 1, 2015, 54 Posts, 453 Comments
Comment posted by Preston Birdwell on February 6, 2016 at 5:28 PM
Nice to see you back, sir!

I like the simple composition and detail. I think the blend works for greater depth of field because the detail in the leaves adds a lot. The small version does look flat, and the large version does, as well, but less so. I would like to see the contrast punched up a bit and the yellow leaves brighter--more luminous.

I can't say why the image in PS looks flatter than the the posted version. More than once, though, my image as it appears in Save for the Web looks flatter and darker than in PS, so I have had to use a curves layer to fix it and then try Save for the Web again. I use TK's Web Sharpening action. Like you, I convert to sRGB and embed that profile.

Question: Do you convert from 16-bit to 8-bit prior to converting the color profile? Just a SWAG, but it may be that the gallery software converts a 16-bit image to 8-bit on the fly, thus causing a loss in fidelity. That's just a SWAG on my part and could be off the mark.

--P
Registered on November 1, 2003, 471 Posts, 5188 Comments
Comment posted by Nick Bristol on February 6, 2016 at 6:00 PM
Another wonderful aspen image, Lon. I like this composition very much and the focus stacked was a good idea on this mage, and I agree with the other comments on why. It does look a bit flat and you are already trying to figure that out. I do the same save for web settings as you are doing. I wonder under the Preview what do you have checked. I use Monitor color, if I check any of the others my image seems to go flat so I just don't use those. Don't know if that is the right way but it works for me. 

Nick Bristol
Lone Rock, WI
Registered on February 1, 2004, 752 Posts, 14140 Comments
Comment posted by Dave Dillemuth on February 6, 2016 at 7:20 PM
Lon,
Another excellent aspen tree capture. Nice comp. - I like the way you have centered the background trunk between the two prominent foreground trunks. Agree with Roel that the background needs to be sharp, as rendered, in this composition. I don't think an OOF background would work nearly as well as there would not be enough to hold interest. I suggest to bump up the white point to brighten the leaves, trunks and increase the contrast.
Registered on December 10, 2015, 104 Posts, 1112 Comments
Comment posted by Igor Doncov on February 6, 2016 at 7:49 PM
I usually don't shoot in flat light because I get flat images. This looks like as though it was shot in shadow, after the sun had cast a shadow on it. I see people resuscitate images like this in PS but I'm not sure how they do it. In this case some of the yellow leaves look monotoned - there is no variation in color or tone, which I believe is the complaint. I thought the last image had the same issue. Good luck in figuring this out. I'm interested. I've had the same issue in Alaska but if there had been any rain prior to that the colors come to life again.
Registered on November 22, 2014, 189 Posts, 2733 Comments
Comment posted by Harley Goldman on February 7, 2016 at 8:38 AM
I find myself fighting this composition. To my eye, the stars of it are the two front trees and sweet color. But my eye keeps going to the trunks throughout the background, back and forth. 

I have had weirdness in posting images to the web and then them not looking quite like the same image in PS. I am not sure what it is. I see it most with B&W. 
Registered on November 19, 2003, 586 Posts, 11271 Comments
Comment posted by Jim Jirka on February 7, 2016 at 12:31 PM
Lon,
Nice image.
A thought on what you are seeing and why I don't post images anymore.
In the past my images were labeled dark without detail in shadows, where on my monitor they were fine and detail in the shadows was visible. The pictures printed perfectly.
It may be time for everyone to comment less on the technicals, color, contrast etc... and more on the feeling the images give. This is especially true when software changes everything when being posted online.

Just my thoughts.
Registered on November 1, 2003, 254 Posts, 1620 Comments
Comment posted by Ryan Shain on February 7, 2016 at 1:01 PM
Hi Lon,

This image has a wonderful sense od being up in the aspen canopy. The composition really highlights the beauty of the trunks and the glowing yellow leaves. I like the dapples of green leaves as they help to move the eye and they frame up the two prominent Aspen trunk. R very beautifully intimate capture.

As for the color issues, the image is a bit flat, and if you want I can give it a try on my computer and see if I get the same results. I am posting what I have checked in my save as web preview.
Registered on February 20, 2007, 226 Posts, 4571 Comments
Comment posted by Roel Wijtmans on February 7, 2016 at 1:05 PM
Hmm, many seem to use the "save for web" function, I never do that. Maybe try saving it the "regular" way, without the "save for web" route? May make a difference....
Registered on September 30, 2012, 116 Posts, 2257 Comments
Comment posted by Mark Seaver on February 7, 2016 at 1:10 PM
Lon, I like having both the foreground trunks and all the leaves and trunks in the background nicely sharp.  Given the density of leaves, they already are providing a near equivalent to a soft background, but having the sharp branches and trunks heading into the distance adds a great sense of depth and tells the story of an Aspen grove rather than focusing strictly on the two foreground trunks.  This pops nicely and the colors look good in the larger version on my calibrated monitor.
Registered on January 23, 2011, 1103 Posts, 17270 Comments
Comment posted by Lon Overacker on February 7, 2016 at 1:24 PM
Thanks for the comments and ideas folks.  I'm currently perplexed with this issue.  I don't know if this is a valid test, but here is my previous image with a side by side comparison.  Image on the left is a screenshot from NPN, the image on the right as displayed in PS CC2015.  I brought them together in a 2-up view, took another screenshot to post here. Save for Web using Ryan's settings; everything 8 bit, sRGB, etc.

I'm perplexed because this should be a WYSIWYG situation.  If I've already converted/saved the image on my computer as a  jpg, sRGB, 8bit, etc. and I'm sitting here looking at it, and the very same image is uploaded and displayed here and it looks different.... then I don't see how it can be anything on my end, because I haven't made any changes, only uploaded.

Also, I shouldn't have to process my image beyond what I think looks good, anticipating my image is going to be "dumbed down" to look like I want it.  It's the same when making prints.  In a properly calibrated system, you should be able to process a file to your liking and expect to print it without having to jack the colors up or change your file so it prints correctly.

The issue is not consistent with all images either, so that doesn't help me figure things out.  I appreciate your thoughts on this. I also did the same experiment with this latest image. There was a difference to my eye, but it was much less apparent.  I'm going to look back at some others.
Registered on November 24, 2006, 521 Posts, 19147 Comments
Comment posted by gary phillips on February 7, 2016 at 1:37 PM
This is an interesting look at an aspen grove, Lon.  I kinda like the journey thru the boles and the dancing stars.  The stack was the right way to go.  It looks a lot more natural to me.  The clarity of the boles and the profusion of color is very nice.  

Color still scares me as far as posting goes.  Even though I have everything calibrated, it seems like it's a crap shoot to get things to post they way they look in PS.  I even go as far as posting images, both b/w and color, check them when they're up on a couple of different screens, pull them back down and adjust them accordingly.  How's that for an efficient work flow?  

Go Broncos!
 
Registered on October 24, 2013, 185 Posts, 4136 Comments
Comment posted by Ryan Shain on February 7, 2016 at 1:48 PM
I notice this stuff too Lon, and it is a bit frustrating. The two images you have posted are very similar, but the one on the right is a bit more punchier than the left. Is the one on the right using the save to web Function?

It definitely is harder to the difference between the two images, so they look better.
Registered on February 20, 2007, 226 Posts, 4571 Comments
Comment posted by Lon Overacker on February 7, 2016 at 2:06 PM
Ryan,

Yes, the image on the right I used the Save for Web dialogue, The image on the left is the SAME IMAGE, the only different, or additional steps was that it was uploaded here.

One thing I'm thinking of is the transparent gif.  Remember, the feature of overlaying a transparent gif was implemented as a clever way to help prevent image theft.  In other words, you right click an image and all you get is a blank gif file.  Theoretically, a 100% transparent gif overlay shouldn't have any effect on the posted image.  But then, that is a least one of the things that's different.

Apologies, don't mean to run up the comments here, I should take this to a discussion forum.

Thanks again for the thoughts.
Registered on November 24, 2006, 521 Posts, 19147 Comments
Comment posted by Paul Breitkreuz on February 8, 2016 at 8:06 PM
Lon, I will only comment on the composition as I've re-read the input throughout with regard to the "punch" and really cannot help with the process we've all kind of used for years now. I'm not sure about the inclusion of the .gif idea. Only other thought I had was with respect to the "cloud" usage of Adobe PS instead of PC based usage. At least that is the only thing I'm not involved with and cannot comment about it's inner workings there either.

Anyway, the name here works well with the aspen boles. The vertical view seems to fit the arrangement of the two primary boles quite fittingly. I do like the scene being filled entirely with boles and leaves, looks really good as being presented there.

Thinking back on the overall look or quantity of ideas around the "punch aspect" does the color seem OK? I've not been reviewing too many images as of late so maybe I'm off in my thoughts. Does there seem to be a mixture of cyan here and there causing the flat look? I know I get that with my images at times. Anyway, just joining in on the SWAG approach as I did not see any thoughts posted on that issue at all. Good luck with working things out.
Registered on February 25, 2006, 525 Posts, 8448 Comments
Comment posted by Bill Chambers on February 9, 2016 at 4:38 PM
Love the title.  Good composition but for some reason it's not really holding my attention.  I really like the fact that you were careful not to allow a yellow cast to invade the boles, which would have been easy to do, and a lesser craftsman might have done.  I'll have to study this more to see if I can figure out what's bothering me about it because normally I love this type of shot.
Registered on April 10, 2005, 753 Posts, 21216 Comments
Comment posted by Ed Lowe on February 9, 2016 at 9:49 PM
I had to chuckle when I saw the title of the image, Lon. The focus stack looks great to me as I think this needs to be sharp from front to back to really enjoy all the wonderful details in the scene. It does look a little flat as you already mentioned. I posted an image a couple of days ago and noticed the same thing so I deleted it before anyone posted a comment. Not sure what the solution would be though.

Ed
 
Registered on February 7, 2004, 414 Posts, 7115 Comments
Comment posted by Lon Overacker on February 10, 2016 at 4:16 PM
Thank you everyone for your thoughts, critiques and suggestions.  I'm just gonna keep an eye on flatness.  Now I find myself second guessing my processing, setup, etc.

Glad you're all here though!
Registered on November 24, 2006, 521 Posts, 19147 Comments
Comment posted by Kah Kit Yoong on February 11, 2016 at 10:33 AM
The processing, saturation and punch look pretty good to me. Overall a very appealing image but I find the vertical trunk intersecting with the right foreground trunk somewhat distracting.
Registered on September 27, 2006, 636 Posts, 10682 Comments
Comment posted by Igor Doncov on February 11, 2016 at 11:07 AM

Overall a very appealing image but I find the vertical trunk intersecting with the right foreground trunk somewhat distracting.

Agreed. I didn't bring it up because the discussion was mainly about a flat image. 

Registered on November 22, 2014, 189 Posts, 2733 Comments