Herring Gull

Been playing around with PS levels on this image and have come to the conclusion that the legs actually are pink (have a look at the front page of my website to see a better version of this image)
Also looking through some bird books suggests that the black on the bill would make this a 2nd or 3rd winter Juv Herring Gull.
Gulls are tricky subjects to ID.



Another image from my last april "Gulls in flight" project, am hoping to add further images to my collection this September when I'm planning on spending a whole week photographing Gulls...hope it doesn't rain

Biggest problem with photographing gulls in flight especially in late evening sunlight is trying to decide whether the legs are pink or yellow...am pretty sure these are yellow but then again some may think them pink in which case this would be a Herring Gull..sometimes they tuck their feet in under their plumage so you can't tell at all what they are

EOS 1d2, EF 300mm f/2.8 + 2x II Extender, F5.6 @ 640? ISO 400
(Looking at some of my images it appears that ISO 400 can be a bit noisy so am going to set a ceiling of ISO 200 on my next trip)

They look yellow to me Larry.

Good project but will iso200 give you sufficient shutter speed?

Rob

Hi Larry,

They look yellow to me to, but I'm intrigued by the colour of the beak spot and it's eye colour which don't look like LBBG to me, but I can't find a decent match in my ID book (collins) for your image

Anyway sure someone will come up with an ID, it will probably turn out to be LBBG anyway

Goodluck with your planned project.

Regards

Rob

Hello Larry
Nice image, I'm not sure about the ID though. I bet Mike will know.
Your camera should easily handle ISO 400, I tend to use 200 as the minimum, except in landscapes. Have faith!
Best wishes
Phil

Hi Larry

Nice shot - with uncertain leg colour I won't enter the ID debate. Agree with Phillip re the iso setting on your 1D MkII - I always set it as low as possible but not at the risk of not getting my shot!

David

Not easy to confirm from the photo, Leg colour does look yellow which is an LBBG pointer but the two "yellow legged" Herring gull sp/ssp re now turning up frequently in UK, both the Yellow Legged Gull and Caspian Gull appear on my local gravel pits with up to 10 YLG at once (YLG now recognised as new Sp. in the UK, the Caspian gull still a ssp. of Herring gull). ID differences are the "white window" size in the last primary - which does look very small -, head shape (flattened and evil looking in CG) and the greyness of back (cannot see in this image) - a mid grey somewhere between Herring and LBBG. if you think the adults are hard, try the juveniles - way beyond me !

Haven't looked in my book, to compare LBBG underwing pattern, but it woudln't surprise me at all if this was a Yellow Legged Gull either. The dark gonoidal spot is just a trick of the light I think, it has traces of red at the back, yellow eye ring is wrong for Common gull which has the all dark bill spot

Where was this taken?

Hi Mike

Sounds like you know your Gulls!?..aimage was taken at foot of Brean Down last April

Hi for me it is a LBBG the dark primary showing no mirrors underneath allso the dark area under the wing stretches from the tip to almost the body, I believe this does not appear on herring gull or yellow leged but I would have to check that.

Phillip.

Hi Phil, yes working blind from work doesn't help, need to get my Gull book out tonight, most id guides don't cover the underwing patterns and the mirrors are variable depending wing overlap, I think there are 2 in this image, but it is hard to be certain! LBBG is most likley candidate, but YLG is just as common Inland in Berkshire than Herring gull these days!

If Larry was photographing Herring Gulls, ie pale backed gulls then I was just throwing in the Yellow Legged alternative, although they do have fairly distinctive red eye rings when adult, not really apparent here.

Will get my gull book out tonight, and probably id it as a Kelp gull or similar!

comparison image with a bit of levels and saturation

I only have these three images saved as Jpeg at the moment all the rest are still tiff or raw

comparison image with a bit of levels and saturation

I only have these three images saved as Jpeg at the moment all the rest are still tiff or raw

It can be easy to get some spectacular shots of Gulls but just like Fungi actually getting the correct ID can take an age

My bird books suggest a juv 2nd/3rd winter Herring Gull...

Think i might stick to just photographing Garden Birds

.

this is a LBBG ??? from a previous post of mine some months back

Hi Larry I think Mike got it right with LBBG if memory serves me right Collings do a large bird book and there is a small drawing on the lesser black back page showing the under wing pattern, I know BWP doesn't show it as I have that on CD and the books.

Phillip.

You know what'll happen now. I'll be standing on the beach with Gulls flying over me in all directions in perfect light and I'll be saying to myself "can I see the leg colour" "what about the beak and eye colour"...and I won't take the shots for fear of not being able to identify what it is i've photographed....oooh ek

Hi Larry,

I shan't embarass myself by hazarding a guess as to the ID as my gull identification skills are pretty appaling.
A fine capture though.
The last one you posted is my favourite of the group.Pin sharp.

Some nice shots, Larry - whatever they are!
Like Justin, I prefer the last one - mainly because it looks a bit sharper. To my eye, the others look they could do with a little more USM for web posting, especially around the head/eye area.

OK, got a host of id books out last night before hitting teh wine bottle....Last image is definately an adult LBBG, this is showing the distinct grey zone on the secondaries, full red eye ring and the black tipped 10th primary window - stonking photo to boot!.

The bird under question there is just a hint of greyness to the secondaries. an LBBG/YLG feature, the white primary windows are tipped in black and small, (10th primary window in Herring gull is untipped and more extensive and underwing is clean white), the photographed bird no real obvious red eye ring, so not an adult breeding LBBG/YLG

YLG has unfortunately intermediate features between HG and LBBG, it has paler grey secondary shading, same red eye ring as LBBG, small primary windows but best told by greyness of back (doh!) and head shape when on the ground.

So on balance of probabilities I would peg this as 3rd summer LBBG

Good work Mike much appreciated, Thanks alot!!, I'll have to review all my gull images again and rename them all...mmm that'll be fun..

Mike what ID books are you using...think I might have to update my set

My general bird book is the excellent Collins guide - isbn 0-00-219728-6.

For quick refreshers on warblers and waders I tend to also use the plates from Birds of Western Paleartic both the 2 volume concise - isbn 0-19-854099-X, and the CD version, depending on whether the computer is booted up or not....

For Gulls I got frustrated looking at brown juveniles and the above books lack some detail for all te juvenile stages, so I also now have the Olsen & Larsen Gulls of Northen America, Europe & Asia - isbn 0-691-11997 - X