Haystack Mountain - Critique Please!

Haystack Mountain ~ Bridger Wilderness

Wista DX, Rodenstock Sinonar N 135mm, Fuji Astia 100F

I shot this during the mid-day hours on color transparency film with the intention of converting it to B&W. I'd like comments/critiques on both the image and the B&W conversion results. I have my own opinions on the image, but would like to hear honest input from others.

Thanks for looking at another Wind Rivers image.

Edit: Ha! I shoulda thought about the white mat on white background before posting - please ignore that...

That is what I'm thinking too. It just doesn't have enough contrast for my tastes. In particular the mountain is all midtone gray, when it seems to my brain it should be lighter. And the cloud doesn't look like it is hot anywhere, when it seems like unde the lighting it should have a couple hot spots.

Otherwise, I really like the composition as well.

I had the same reaction to the tonal range. Needs the Ansel Adams PS filter.

This may not meet your tastes, but give it a try and let me know.
Assuming you are using PS:
In levels - move the white point slider down to 215 - get some of those greys toward white.
Add a slight s-shaped curves adjustment to add contrast to your taste.

Just the white levels adjustment alone makes a big difference.

Great image!
I'd love to see a print when you are done.

Scott - sweet comp. I like the layering of dark-light-dark-light moving from fore to background, and the cloud is killer.

I scanned my first b&w (Acros) last night and was surprised at the lack of contrast - it was from the SE end of the lake looking back to the Cirque. I guess I didn't realize how mid-tone everything was in the scene wehen I was shooting it.

I agree with Bill's suggestions for adjusting contrast - similar to what I was doing last night. Depending on what you're personal tastes are, I'd go even further with the white point and take it down into the 175 - 190 range. You'll blow out the cloud, but Haystack really shines. To get the cloud back, you could work with a new layer, adjust levels to optimize the cloud, then blend/transparency that cloud into the first image/layer. (this is where my PS skills are weak; I did the transparency/blending work in Corel so I don't know the exact PS steps to make it happen but you get the idea).

Definitely a keeper - looking forward to seeing the results when you're done!

Thanks very much for the (specific) suggestions! More comments are welcome.

I'll have time to work on the image again this evening.

Scott,

Love the clouds. Overall composition is good.

Overall though i dont care for this one very much. I think what is bugging me is the muddy look to the mountains and especially to the rocks right in the middle front. The image overall just doesnt seem to pop for me.

You could have avoided any problems with the conversion by shooting a nice wide range film like TMAX or Acros 1st (and used a dark red filter) and come reallyclose to a final product in the scan to begin with.

RichieV

RichieV wrote:
You could have avoided any problems with the conversion by shooting a nice wide range film like TMAX or Acros 1st (and used a dark red filter) and come reallyclose to a final product in the scan to begin with.

Ah yes, but its too late for that now.

Scott – I like the shot and composition – very Ansel Adamsy! My only beef with the image is that you did not use “Real B&W” film! So go back and shoot it again!

Seriously though – If you have the details in the original trannie, I would add a little more contrast on the mountain and lighten up the mountain just a tad, especially in the dense areas in the middle-righ - I can't tell if those are trees or shadows. I would also try to bring out more details in the trees, they look a bit dark. The lower part of the image (the boulders) is also very flat, and I would try to coax some detail out of that area as well. My two cents!

Since you converted this from Astia, how does the color version look?

Guy's article in OP on how to convert color images to b&w was good, but there's a much more thorough article in the new Digital Photo Pro that's a must-read. Nothing against Guy's treatment, they just didn't give him the space that DPP generally allows for such articles.

Fix the conversion technique and this will be one fine image.

Scott, it's actually not too late. Shoot me an email if you want more details. "ConvertToBW Pro" by the Imaging Factory is a PS plugin that is a pro level BW conversion tool that duplicates the effects of color filters, among other things (it's based upon the channel mixer). It might really help you with the tone/contrast issues.

I can give it a sample processing if you want to test it out. Or try a limited demo. (You'd probably have to do some more BW to make it worth the price.)

I stumbled onto this gem after reading a review by Luminous Landscape (one of his 3 must have filters).
http://www.theimagingfactory.com/

Rene, it's only a 7 hour drive and an 11 mile hike with 2900 feet of elevation gain to get back to this spot... (That's just an afternoon day-hike for Mr. Stensland )

The original on Astia, looks pretty good for being shot at mid-day. I can post that this evening.

Todd, thanks for the suggestion on the DPP article. I'll pick that up. I saw Guy's article, but it didn't cover any new ground for me.

I used the channel mixer to convert, dropping the red channel to about 78, bumping the green slightly to 4 and increasing the blue about 15 (these are from memory, and may not be exact). I played with it quite a while and these were the settings that looked best to me. I think the suggestions so far on increasing the contrast will get me on the right track. But of course, more comments are still welcome!

Thanks everyone!

Stunning mountain! I agree with the contrast comments. You know, I just cannot figure out where this was!!! Was this near Deep Lake?

Thanks Jesse, I've read that LL article. I'll take a look...

Jack, this is from the unnamed lake above Deep Lake, looking back Northeast at Haystack Mountain. You were already over in the Cirque.

Updated Version

Thanks for all the input!

I don't think this will be the final version, but it's better (I think). I'm much happier with it.

I did some searching around and found a B&W Conversion Photoshop Action by Rob Carr. But I also went through the tutorial so I know and understand what is going on behind the scenes. This should definitely help in the future.

More comments welcome! And thanks again!!

Scott, I was about to suggest this tutorial. It is one of the best for BW conversion and it shows in your image.

That one looks awsome!

much much better

I'm just getting around to reading this thread. Got to the second version and - WOW! Looks like a wallhanger to me. Nice work, Scott.

Now we're talking; that's a huge improvement. I've been using the Carr BW conversion for some time now and it's great. Highly recommended; especially for BW of people.

Craig

Would agree, very nice improvement! Nice work!

Brian

Nice rework - definitely shows off the scene with more impact. I worked up a version last night with more contrast using the technique I described above. If you're interested, I'll e-mail it to you.

Very cool shot - the second version is like night and day to the first. Well done!