Posted by Basil Greber on August 31, 2006 at 7:48 AM
Hello all
I've asked this question in another forum, but only got replies like "if you don't know the answer to this, then you know nothing about photography, so get a D50". I'm actually glad nobody suggested a Coolpix . Well, anyway, here's the question:
I'm currently looking to buy a second body for my girlfriend (I have a D50). So it should be a Nikon so we can share lenses. There are basically two options I have in mind (budget reasons say no-no to a D200 or D80, unfortunately): A second D50, or a used D100. The price will be about the same, maybe the D100 marginally cheaper.
Pro for the D50: New, with warranty, good high-ISO performance, better dynamic range, uses SD cards. Pro for the D100: MLU, DOF preview (I like macro), more stable body.
Is there a reason why I should NOT buy that used D100 body (apart from the CF vs. SD thing)? Any comments appreciated (well, with one exception, see above ).
Thank you!
Basil
Posted by Kent Staubus on August 31, 2006 at 8:42 AM
The other thing the D50 has going for it is it will use the same flash as the D50. I'm not sure the D100 even has a pop up flash. How about a used D70 (not D70s)? It has a pop up flash, uses same add-on flash as the D50, and I think it does have a DOF preview.
Kent in SD
Posted by Basil Greber on August 31, 2006 at 9:15 AM
Hi Kent
Yes, the D70s would be perfect (despite lacking MLU), but nobody is selling that at the moment (and those that do are very expensive, almost like new). With the D70, you never know when BGLOD hits you. I don't want that...
The D100 does have a pop-up flash, but you're right, it would be D100 SB-50/80DX vs. D50/70 SB-600/800 [or not - thanks to the poster above ].
Basil
Posted by Bill Chambers on August 31, 2006 at 10:38 AM
If it were me, I'd choose the D100 simply because of the more robust construction and mirror lock up. MLU is very important to me though. I had a couple of N80's (very similar to D70's). They just did not hold up well to the high humidity, dust, sand, etc of nature photography. Spent more time being repaired than working.
Basil, I haven't used either camera but personally I would go for the most image quality. DPReview compared the D70 and D100 a while back and their conclusion is:
"Overall however it's fair to say that the D70 is a fairly significant step forward in image sharpness and detail from the D100."
To me that would tip the scale in favor of a used D70.
I purchased a pair of used D100s a bit more than three years ago and finally replaced them this spring with a pair of (new) D200s. I recently sold one of the D100s and the other is either going to my wife's sister as a gift or will be put up for sale as well.
I'm with Guy...image quality is the primary criterion I'd use to make a decision about what to buy. The sensor on the D100 is a product of very old (in digital camera terms) technology and, thus, is quite noisy compared to any other DSLR Nikon has released since, presumably including the D50 (though I have no personal experience with that model). That doesn't mean that you can't make nice prints from D100 images, but your margin of error is considerably more limited.
Earlier in this thread there was mention of how robust the D100 body was compared with the N80 film body. I shot with the N80 before moving to digital...the D100 was built on the N80 chasis; it's the same plastic body, so there's really no advantage there compared with the D50 or D70/70s. Having a form of MLU--it's not quite a "true" mirror lockup, as on the D200; it's really a built in shutter delay--on the D100 was a nice feature, however. I don't know if the D50 has a self-timer (it ought to if it doesn't, but that's not much help ), but if it does, that can serve, in many instances, as a kind of poor man's MLU. I'm quite sure the D70s does have a self-timer.
Posted by Basil Greber on August 31, 2006 at 12:13 PM
Thanks Guy & Kerry
I wonder if my lenses are sharp enough to notice a sharpness difference caused by the camera. But anyway, you're right there, IQ and particularly noise levels are important...
The D50 does have a self-timer BTW, and I have a remote release for it, but that doesn't help much in avoiding mirror-slap vibrations (which are quite significant, in my opinion, with that lightweight body). Maybe waiting for the bunch of D70s's sold after the D80 is available is the way to go.
Thanks everybody who replied! Very helpful and much appreciated.
The D50 does have a self-timer BTW, and I have a remote release for it, but that doesn't help much in avoiding mirror-slap vibrations (which are quite significant, in my opinion, with that lightweight body).
True. I haven't detected a huge difference in sharpness in the shutter speed "danger zone" with the D200 when I have it locked down on a tripod (which is 100% of the time), but that's a significantly heavier body than the D50 with a comparably sized mirror.
Posted by Andy Richards on September 1, 2006 at 8:34 AM
I owned a D100 until I traded for a D200. I don't see "robustness" of the body as an issue. I'll agree with an early poster that the MLU is not true MLU. I found it not to be a very useful feature--and awkward. I certainly wouldn't make it a choice criteria.
The D50 does have newer sensor technology, and MAY have a better AF (the D100 AF was not spectacular).
One item I am surprised nobody else has mentioned is MEDIA. The D50 uses SD cards. The D100 uses CF cards. That means you will have to purchase new CF cards (add that to the price comparison -- same is true for D70). The D50/D80 both use SD cards. If you shoot RAW (and I believe sooner or later you will want to), you need large card(s).
Posted by Basil Greber on September 1, 2006 at 9:18 AM
Andy, you're a bit late.
I've just got one off Ricardo ("Swiss eBay") early this morning for a very good price (I guess all those high-bidders were still asleep - it was much cheaper than a D70s anyway, and also cheaper than the D70 where you never know when BGLOD comes along), even considering the storage media issue (girlfriend already has two CF cards). However, you are the first to report that that kind of MLU was not useful - this was a big (positive) factor in my decision, so I hope I will like it better than you did (I'm glad Bill liked it ).
Guy - I think you are certainly right about IQ. I had already read the review on DPReview, but for me, the difference was not hughe (maybe I misread it or you're referring to a different part of the text). And I don't own any of those super-duper lenses that really outresolve the sensors (except maybe the Micro Nikkor).
Also, the D100 will take SB-800 and SB-600 flashes, so this is not much of an issue.
In any case, thank you very much for all your suggestions and inputs. This was very much a compromise decision, and also largely "budget constrained" (had been thinking about it for a long time even before posting here) - my favorite would have been the D70s, but I'm not willing to pay a whole lot for subtle sharpness increase over the D100, coming at the price of moire/maze (neither does my girlfriend - it's her money), for high-ISO, I'd have taken the D50 (but I already have one and didn't want to just duplicate it, thereby missing the possibility add some features to the set), and if I had won the lottery, the D200 would have been on top.
Thanks to all!
Basil
Posted by Andy Richards on September 2, 2006 at 10:09 AM
Basil: Congratulations on your purchase -- and good deal. Hope you didn't get the wrong impression. I had no qualms about my D100. My move to digital was from an F100 to a D100 and in terms of the body, it was a definite "step back." But in terms of my wants/needs, it was a step forward. With digital, I finally got the color "darkroom" I always wanted. The D100 is capable of excellent images with proper skills. I have never depended on in-camera electronics to "tweak" my images and so--set the camera to render a plain RAW image. I had a buddy who had a D2x and when he first uploaded his images to his computer, they ALWAYS looked better than mine. But with just a little PS tweaking, mine matched his. I think he had some of the in-camera stuff set.
RE: the MLU, hope it works out for you. There has always been a debate about the utility of MLU. I have always been one of those who haven't seen the necessity of it. My film-based Nikons -- some had it, some didn't. I used it sometimes and sometimes not, and never could really see a critical difference. But then, maybe I am just not critical enough.
Best of luck with the new camera.
Andy
Posted by Basil Greber on September 2, 2006 at 3:19 PM
Discussion
12 repliesI've asked this question in another forum, but only got replies like "if you don't know the answer to this, then you know nothing about photography, so get a D50". I'm actually glad nobody suggested a Coolpix
I'm currently looking to buy a second body for my girlfriend (I have a D50). So it should be a Nikon so we can share lenses.
Pro for the D50: New, with warranty, good high-ISO performance, better dynamic range, uses SD cards. Pro for the D100: MLU, DOF preview (I like macro), more stable body.
Is there a reason why I should NOT buy that used D100 body (apart from the CF vs. SD thing)? Any comments appreciated (well, with one exception, see above
Thank you!
Basil
Kent in SD
Yes, the D70s would be perfect (despite lacking MLU), but nobody is selling that at the moment (and those that do are very expensive, almost like new). With the D70, you never know when BGLOD hits you. I don't want that...
The D100 does have a pop-up flash, but you're right, it would be D100 SB-50/80DX vs. D50/70 SB-600/800 [or not - thanks to the poster above
Basil
"Overall however it's fair to say that the D70 is a fairly significant step forward in image sharpness and detail from the D100."
To me that would tip the scale in favor of a used D70.
Guy
I'm with Guy...image quality is the primary criterion I'd use to make a decision about what to buy. The sensor on the D100 is a product of very old (in digital camera terms) technology and, thus, is quite noisy compared to any other DSLR Nikon has released since, presumably including the D50 (though I have no personal experience with that model). That doesn't mean that you can't make nice prints from D100 images, but your margin of error is considerably more limited.
Earlier in this thread there was mention of how robust the D100 body was compared with the N80 film body. I shot with the N80 before moving to digital...the D100 was built on the N80 chasis; it's the same plastic body, so there's really no advantage there compared with the D50 or D70/70s. Having a form of MLU--it's not quite a "true" mirror lockup, as on the D200; it's really a built in shutter delay--on the D100 was a nice feature, however. I don't know if the D50 has a self-timer (it ought to if it doesn't, but that's not much help
I wonder if my lenses are sharp enough to notice a sharpness difference caused by the camera.
The D50 does have a self-timer BTW, and I have a remote release for it, but that doesn't help much in avoiding mirror-slap vibrations (which are quite significant, in my opinion, with that lightweight body). Maybe waiting for the bunch of D70s's sold after the D80 is available is the way to go.
Thanks everybody who replied! Very helpful and much appreciated.
Basil
True. I haven't detected a huge difference in sharpness in the shutter speed "danger zone" with the D200 when I have it locked down on a tripod (which is 100% of the time), but that's a significantly heavier body than the D50 with a comparably sized mirror.
The D50 does have newer sensor technology, and MAY have a better AF (the D100 AF was not spectacular).
One item I am surprised nobody else has mentioned is MEDIA. The D50 uses SD cards. The D100 uses CF cards. That means you will have to purchase new CF cards (add that to the price comparison -- same is true for D70). The D50/D80 both use SD cards. If you shoot RAW (and I believe sooner or later you will want to), you need large card(s).
I've just got one off Ricardo ("Swiss eBay") early this morning for a very good price (I guess all those high-bidders were still asleep - it was much cheaper than a D70s anyway, and also cheaper than the D70 where you never know when BGLOD comes along), even considering the storage media issue (girlfriend already has two CF cards). However, you are the first to report that that kind of MLU was not useful - this was a big (positive) factor in my decision, so I hope I will like it better than you did (I'm glad Bill liked it
Guy - I think you are certainly right about IQ. I had already read the review on DPReview, but for me, the difference was not hughe (maybe I misread it or you're referring to a different part of the text). And I don't own any of those super-duper lenses that really outresolve the sensors (except maybe the Micro Nikkor).
Also, the D100 will take SB-800 and SB-600 flashes, so this is not much of an issue.
In any case, thank you very much for all your suggestions and inputs. This was very much a compromise decision, and also largely "budget constrained" (had been thinking about it for a long time even before posting here) - my favorite would have been the D70s, but I'm not willing to pay a whole lot for subtle sharpness increase over the D100, coming at the price of moire/maze (neither does my girlfriend - it's her money), for high-ISO, I'd have taken the D50 (but I already have one and didn't want to just duplicate it, thereby missing the possibility add some features to the set), and if I had won the lottery, the D200 would have been on top.
Thanks to all!
Basil
RE: the MLU, hope it works out for you. There has always been a debate about the utility of MLU. I have always been one of those who haven't seen the necessity of it. My film-based Nikons -- some had it, some didn't. I used it sometimes and sometimes not, and never could really see a critical difference. But then, maybe I am just not critical enough.
Best of luck with the new camera.
Andy
Basil