Influence

Are your thoughts and views often influenced by what others have already written when you view a photograph posted in any one of the Galleries? Do some commenters influence you more than others? Should we read what others say before we comment?

I have come across images that did not work for me initially but after reading through a list of kudos I began to rethink my viewpoint and looked deeper into the work. Then I may see what others see in the image. This could be a good thing. Maybe not.

I do not base my comments on immediate reaction or impression. When my first impression is negative I take the time to ponder the post. At the same time I avoid reading what others say. This takes a little discipline on my part but I think this is more fair to the photographer.

I prefer my thoughts to be my own, however, sometimes I am not sure what to say so I consult the other comments. In that case my comments are definitely influenced.

So should we resist the urge to read the comments from others before we comment ourselves?

Thank you for your replies.

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

My commenting practices are similar to your own, Will. I don't read what others have to say and whether I like or dislike an image, I take the time to figure out why and offer whatever thoughts come to mind. However, from what I've seen here lately it does appear some commenters feel influenced to either agree with or to debate critiques from others here.

What others say have no influence on my preferences, but I read what others say to see where they are coming from. insightful comments can be a learning experience for anyone no matter where they come from. For instance, some of the abstract-style stuff I just don't get why they shot it often times so I want to understand why others think so highly of the image. If you truly believe what you are saying and are secure about it, then I see no reason why you'd feel the need to avoid seeing what others say. If you're not interested in what others say then that's another matter, but worrying about getting biased by other comments isn't something I'd ever consider.

Good points Richard. I definitely like to read what others have to say, but after I've figured out why I like or don't like the image. I should have been more clear about that. My initial opinion isn't likely to change due to comments from others.

I've been reviewing and commenting on photos for close to 30 years as a teacher and student, so I've adapted and evolved to a different approach. As a teacher conducting in-class reviews, I was put in a position of being first to comment early in the class to show how it's done and set some standards for decorum, then drift further and further back in the pack as the class went through the semester until I was put in the "cleanup" slot, batting last after everyone had their say.

The teacher in me prefers the latter, simply because I don't want anyone to feel like I have "said it all" with an early comment. In my reviews I often react to what others say, but in a constructive way even when I disagree.

I think it's most valuable to the student/poster to hear views from all sides so they get a broad view of a photo- both its strengths and its weaknesses. In that light, I think disagreement among reviewers can be a very good thing. The photographer can then revisit their own opinion about their own work, learning something along the way. The discussion of differing viewpoints also is good for other people who read along.

I have to say I usually only comment on the photos that 'speak to me'. Some images could be technically perfect but if it isn't my taste for style or subject matter, I usually just don't say anything. (ie I probably haven't looked in the Macro or Avian galleries for ages - which we discussed previously) but if I am going to comment, its usually from my first reaction to the shot & will type what I think before I read them. Other times, I will pick a thumbnail that has LOTS of comments to look at "just to see what the fuss is about"

We are on the same wave lenght, Marc. I want my thoughts to be my own. So I try to avoid reading the comments of others. Yet I value what others have to say too.

Richard I agree that if you truly believe in what you say and are secure then what others say should not change that. I believe the more you progress as a photographer the more secure you become in your comments. And sometimes it takes a little courage to "exercise the right to be wrong". Meaning being at odds with the opinions of others.

Hank I understand the value of understanding the views from all sides when it shows the strenghts and weakness of the photo. From that viewpoint it may help my thinking rather than influencing it to conform to what others are saying. My comments would be more thoughtful because it is "united" with the others. Certainly a different way of looking at this.

Becky, initially I commented only on posts that "spoke to me" too. Now I actually look for those that do not. Not to the exclusion of those who do "speak" of course.

Thank you,

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

I think this is a good topic as it makes you reflect on why you comment or not. As a commenter you want to bring something to the presenter posetive(even in suggestions for improvement)but not empty and you don't want to just echo what's already said -that shows me what others have said does influence wether I comment or not but my reaction to the image stays the same regardless to the observations of others.

I think this is a good topic as it makes you reflect on why you comment or not. As a commenter you want to bring something to the presenter posetive(even in suggestions for improvement)but not empty and you don't want to just echo what's already said -that shows me what others have said does influence wether I comment or not but my reaction to the image stays the same regardless to the observations of others.

Will: I tend to comment first on the images that draw my attention and have impact, then I go through and find the images that don't have any comments. I feel it is important that every image be critqued. Even with a beginning photographer it is important to first list the good points and then list what they can do to improve the image. I used to comment after reading but found that I questioned my own impression too much, so now I comment and then read the rest. I think it is important to be honest so that when a photographer receives a compliment they know it is really meant..

When I go to write a comment, I first look over the image, think about it for a moment or two, and then directly write my thoughts. I don't stop there though. Since the forums are designed to be interactive, that is hopefully we have a short discussion, I then go on to read the other comments. In the second "part" of my own comment I will respond to the comments of others. My initial thought/comment is strictly my own though. This is why I sometimes seem to be out of sync with a previous comment. I can think of one recent example where I wrote "Using f8 might have increased you DOF and put more in focus." A previous person had written, "Everything is nice and sharp." Obviously, we saw things differently.


Kent in SD

Interesting discussion. As a newbie to this type of forum I really identify with some of Hank's comments re teacher vs students. As I started out here I generally looked at the image, thought about my impression and then looked to the comments of those more experienced than I to see if I was even in the ball park. I think I am getting better and I am certainly more comfortable making comments now. That said I still feel a bit uncomfortable when I have made occasional comments at total odds with the majority of reviewers. I expect that this is a natural evolution as a person becomes a more experienced photographer. As an aside, it seems to me that not uncommonly an image that is generating a fair number of comments stops getting comments once one of the more highly respected forum members or moderators makes their comment. I have wondered if this is because us newbies feel as though we can't possibly add anything more once that type of comment/opinion has been expressed.

Good question! I read all of the other comments first, but that's ONLY because I'm on a slow, slow dial-up, and it takes so long for the images to load that I get bored if I don't have something to do!
I do realize that reading those comments may affect what I write, if only because they may bring up something I agree or disagree with, and that I might not have mentioned if they hadn't said it first.
I generally stay from the images with 20 or 30 comments. I was on here several years ago, and after lurking for quite a while recently, I joined, and I recognize the "big" names. I don't feel any need to add to the adulations that Guy Tal and Marc Adamus receive, just to name a couple. It doesn't do them any good, and it doesn't do me any good. I learn by looking at, and seriously studying, a wide range of images. That helps me to see what it is that "makes" a good image, and I certainly realize how much that definition varies amongst the people on here!!!!

Keith, I believe your comments should be your own and you should not see if they are "in the ball park" with the others. That being said though, I like it when I make a suggestion for improvement or give a critique and discover after I posted my comment that others echo similar sentiments. I also found it "risky" to be the very first to comment but now I go out of my way to do that. I will find out after if I am in the ball park.

I have been at total odds with the majority so I know how you feel in that situation. That does not mean that others are seeing that you have a ways to go in progressing. You may be picking something up in the photo that others have missed; something that could be very helpful.

As to the aside, that shows a strong reason why we should comment first and read other's comments after. That way you give your own thoughts and not echoing that of others. Also if a highly respected member has already said what you were going to say, why can't you say it too? Even a "I agree with..." is good. And if you can say why you agree, that is even better. Bottom line you have given the photographer feedback and that is always highly appreciated. Photography is meant to be shown and seen. Commenting varifies that you have came by.

From the replies I get from this thread is it is better to write your comment first. And then read what others say. Sometimes I do not know what to write immediately so I am tempted to read first. When I do that I find it difficult to express my own thoughts and feel they are my own. Somehow I feel my thoughts are influenced in that case no matter how enthusiastically I agree.

And Genny, why not add your comment to those of the others when it comes to the adulations given to photographers like Guy and Marc who may have received many already. They deserve it and I am sure they appreciate yours as well.

Thank you


Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

That said I still feel a bit uncomfortable when I have made occasional comments at total odds with the majority of reviewers. I expect that this is a natural evolution as a person becomes a more experienced photographer. As an aside, it seems to me that not uncommonly an image that is generating a fair number of comments stops getting comments once one of the more highly respected forum members or moderators makes their comment.

I think that is natural. I'm at ease with everyone here but still feel a bit of a twinge when I go against the grain. But just a bit--I sometimes relish the role of devil's advocate! I would encourage you to not be afraid to post your thoughts. Really, there's no right or wrong, just opinion. If you have a good point everyone else missed, we learn from you. If there's an error in your thinking you learn from us. As far as feeling intimidated because a "highly respected moderator" made a comment before you did, you should feel totally at ease posting comments on the "fauna" (critter) photo gallery because there isn't a highly respected moderator there. It's just me at the moment.


Kent in SD

Will- As to adding my adulations to Guy's or Marc's image: I rarely even get around to looking at their images. Between how long it takes for each image to load, how long it takes me to write a comment, and how long it takes to get back on here after my connection drops off, I simply don't have the time to look at very many images. People who have fast connections should thanks their lucky stars.
Besides, why should the number of comments necessarily be related to how great or dramatic the image is? Why should I add to the heap of positive comments on their images (and I don't really mean to pick on anybody, they just happen to be really obvious because they rarely get fewer than 20 comments per image) when then are many others that only get 3 or 4 comments? What's the purpose on here, anyway? What is it that one "deserves" on here? I would think that everyone who posts on here deserves honest critiques and comments on their work (provided they are participating with their own comments). I am certainly grateful when anyone takes the time to comment on my images.

Genny, I forget that not everyone has a fast connection like many of us have. And I do "thank my lucky stars" I have "heaped" my comment on the pile of 20 or more, simply because I was moved by the image to do so. Sometimes I put in my comment early to avoid adding mine to a long list. I usually know when the list of comments will be long.

I have never broke the 20 barrier but got into the 'teens for comments on my images. I also have posted images that barely got 3 or 4; at times even less but I am content with the comments I get because they are helpful. Getting only one kudo as an one and only comment is appreciated but not very helpful. If an image does not work for anyone, then a single comment letting me know why is enough.

Thank you

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada