My agent will now only except images of 10mp or more so my Canon 1d2 and 20D are up for grabs,The 1d2 has one or 2 small marks and a new battery and the 20D is my 2nd camera so rarely used,only marks on hot shoe,The cameras are in Switzerland but easily sent to the UK,Amazing they will accept images from a £500 400D but not a £2k 1d2,Now what to get a 5D or a 1ds2,Is the 1ds worth 3 times the price of a 1ds im not sure,I always thought of the 1d2 as the perfect wildlife camera and until there is a 1d3 i feel buggered,
I am open to reasonable offers on the camera bodies and will supply images of the bodies if required
I'm not surprised they except images of 10mp, I wouldn't even accept them
Seriously though - I find this a little odd. Surely the agency will have little or no knowledge (or interest) in the camera the image was shot on. The end file size is what matters and 10Mp res is going to be easily interpolated with NO discernible loss of quality to a pretty large size to satisfy even the most stringent agency criteria.
If this is the situation, I would ditch the agency!
As to your comment with regard cameras - you cannot compare the 1Ds-II with the previous 1Ds - chalk and cheese. Much higher resolution coupled with extremely low noise at all ISOs. The 1Ds is very poor past 320asa compared to the 1Ds-II.
Sounds like they're more trouble than they'e worth - I seem to remember you mentioning having to jump through hoops for them already in terms of regular contributions?! Ask yourself have, or will, sales through them pay for the new gear - if so go ahead and ditch existing and buy new kit. Otherwise ask the agency if they will buy the new camera(s) for you. If their answer is no, then find yourself a better agency that knows a bit about equipment and about making photos , and who will make better sales for you.
If you can't withdraw what is already in their library, then leave it where it is and send newer stuff to your next agency. Take a look through most libraries and you find familiar names cropping up - very few people remain with only one library.
Sorry Barrie,when i said 1ds i meant 1ds2,The 5D is £1600 whereas the 1ds2 is £4600,I have always liked the pro canon bodies so the 5D will feel abit flimsy in comparison but would be a good second body so may get one now and use it as a second body when the 1d3 finally emergies,The last lot of images submitted was taken on my 20D and the agency queried this and said the new policy is that images must now be taken with a 10mp camera minimum although they still accepted the submission,
Posted by Sean Bolton on October 4, 2006 at 7:11 AM
Hi Dave
Assuming you don't want to splash out on a new 1Dsmk2 I would suggest the 5D as a stop gap until the new 1D is released (probably early next year), although you might miss the 'machine gun' mode of the 1DII and the 45 pt AF. A used 1Ds might also be an option, I see them going for about £2000 in the UK. Upside is you get a 1 series body, the 45point AF. Downside is the noise at higher ISO, smaller LCD, slowish CF write and review times.
It is still very surprising that agencies make such broad brush requirements about image size and megapixels without understanding all the aspects of image quality. Given that 99% of stock image sales are reproduced at less than A4 size, and a good file from an 8 megapixel SLR easily prints upto A3 size it makes you wonder what they are thinking about.
This is all about PR... "This Agencies Photographers only use the top SLRS etc etc" and the ability for the Agency to get the highest technical spec when they don't have to pay for the outlay as, needless to say, you will not get anymore for the images.
The bar, albeit a ridiculus bar, is only going to get higher (by those who trade/buy) when the next crop of Nik-Can's replacements are announced.
Dave, just a thought, will that next bunch of MP+ cameras make the 5D 12.8M images obsolete? I don't know, but what I do know is that this is more likely than making the 16.7M images of a 1Ds2 obselete.
Being at the top end means 4 years grace, even Artie (who at the time said that the 1D2 was the 'muts nuts') finally moved to a 1DS2.
FWISW, I have a already, mentally, put a deposit down on the next Canon dream machine
Exactly why we are 'sensible' with our demands on image size.... we know that an 8mp image will interpolate to A3 with no problem.
Take your images up to the size they require and strip the EXIF, how are they going to know what camera was used?
BTW the 5D is very solid with ergonomics that I prefer with excellent image quality particularly from RAW through C1Pro, (its what I use for my everyday work) I have never managed to get on with the 1 series controls, but that is just me.
All the best
Phil
Posted by Mike Smith on October 4, 2006 at 7:57 AM
Why can't you uprez your files from 8MP to 10MP there would be a minimal loss of quality? Simple enough to set up an action in PS to do this, uprez about 10% beyond final size, a mild sharpen pass then down rez to final image size produces much cleaner images than simple uprez alone. - discussed in this Digital Outback website tutorial here
Having used the 1DsII for over year now, I find it is a pig for any fast action shots, either wildlife or flying jet aircraft, my older 1D made a much better job of focus lock and tracking. Other failing is the buffer transfer speed, if you hit full a buffer it seems like an age to clear out ready for use again.
Having used and been spoilt by the 1DII/n I think you will find anything else in Canon's line up at present fairly disappointing on focus speed and buffer transfer rate
They say they have a policy and then still accept the images, so much for their quality control! Find yourself a more sensible agency, they're not worth the time and energy.
If you took a photo tomorrow of the Loch Ness Monster or Elvis, Lord Lucan or Osama sunbathing on Lake Geneva, would they turn it down if it was even taken on a D30...?
The agency upsizes for you and only accelpts uninterpolated images,I did phone them on this and thats why they have taken the submitted images as well as others 'for a time' but i guess the clocks ticking,I am thinking of keeping the 1d2 until the next edition comes out but will definantly sell the 20D,The agency has a very good reputation and its taken a year of submitting to get this far and now contracts have been exchanged i would like to move forward and make a few bob,I have just been to my local camera shop here in Lausanne and they offered a 5D with grip for the equivilant of £1739 and then you get £200 back from canon which is pretty good,I also asked for a price on a 1ds2 and he strangly wouldnt give it to me saying quietly that canon are bringing a new one out in the new year and not to waste my money buying at the moment-must know something,unusual for a shopkeeper not to want to sell you something
Posted by Larry Corbett on October 4, 2006 at 9:45 AM
Dave
...don't bank on getting £200 back from Canon...
Sent off my forms and the bar code off my box over 3 months ago (on the very day I bought my 5d) and I'm still waiting to receive confirmation of them receiving the form which according to them they were suppost to email to me within 7/14 days of receipt (can't remember now) then I was supposed to receive the £200 cheque almost immediately
It's one big con....
ps..the 5d is one cool camera...not a speed machine like the 1d2, you just have to be a bit more precise when pressing the shutter..you can't machine gun things like you can with the 1d2
Posted by Chris Lloyd on October 4, 2006 at 11:16 AM
Hi Dave,
Thanks for replying to my query regarding agencies a few weeks ago. What agency do you use just out of interest?
Posted by Rob Ashton on October 4, 2006 at 4:32 PM
Hi Dave,
Your thread ties in nicely with a previous thread about the Megapixel race. My main concern with the attitude shown by the Agancies and Libraries is that the cost of a 1DMkIIn hasn't fallen accordingly. If it is not considered a "pro" body anymore the price should drop.
The main reason given by a lot of agencies is that it helps to keep the numbers of submissions down to a workable level. Lets face it, every photographer with a DSLR wants to sell their images if they can. If the agencies didn't have some sort of minimum requirement in place they'd have a queue round the block every day. That's all well and good, but how many good nature photographers can afford to go get the latest generation DSLRs every year or so? I know some very well respected pros who have moved to the 5D as the 1DSMkII is not a justifiable cost. If the agencies turn around in 6 months and say that they don't accept images from a DSLR less than 16MP what then? The only guys able to submit will be 1DSMkII owners.
It is stupid but it also is a fact of life. We'll all have to remortgage the house to buy a 22MP DSLR soon and can the agencies guarantee that our images will sell enough to recoup the cost?
My main concern with the attitude shown by the Agancies and Libraries is that the cost of a 1DMkIIn hasn't fallen accordingly. If it is not considered a "pro" body anymore the price should drop.
It is considered a pro body, it always will be if you are a sports shooter: its main market. This is why the price won't drop. The problem is that some nature picture agencies starting to think they are stock agencies and forgetting the conditions underwhich Nature photographers work --- next they will be asking for stuff only on the H3D and lose a lot of good photographers to an agency that is more intouch with the real world.
One thing, whilst they may 'advise' a move to a higher res body, they will not put the prices up, in fact some are now taking 50/50 hence decreasing your share! The image price is is set by the market and the market doesn't care what it is shot with as long as 95% of the time it fits A4 or less and it has good content, saturation, contrast and sharpness.
However, all that said if you are making any money (as a pro-am) then depreciating the residual camera body cost over a period of 3 years is not that ardious - what I would be complaining about is that the top spec 35mm body about 5 years ago was around £1500 where as the next line up (5 years later) is likely to be just shy of £6K, thats some increase considering the cost of an image hasn't jumped X4 in the same period. Who would want to be a nature-pro - I looked at it 5 years ago and decided na.... stay pro-am
I think this is isolated to OSF isn't it? I'm not aware of many agencies with this threshold. It is possible to upsize to A3 repro with no loss of quality, end of story.
Do they earn you enough to make the loss/cost of an upgrade justifiable?
Quite a thread considering it started off as a 'for sale' I have just looked at the NHPA site and they ask for minimum 10mp cameras as well so its not just OSF,I have only just started supplying OSF with files so these are going thru the system at present and will be a while before any sale/monies come my way,I dont diss OSF for this they are a good proffesional agency its just life and something we have to live with if we want top make some cash out of photography,Its just that a it never comes at a good time i.e always when you are skint
Depends, if you enforce strict submission guidelines and controlled vocabulary with respect to XMP its may not be that hard. The computer system side is a doddle. However this is another topic
Posted by Danny Green on October 6, 2006 at 4:10 PM
Hello Dave
I am in the same boat as you, I have submiited my work to an agency and although they liked what they saw. They had misgivings about the camera which I took them on. I first submitted ten images which was hard as you have got to grab their attention with just a small sample of work. They then asked me to submit a further 200 images for consideration and I am waiting for a responce, which I hope is good news. I have had pictures published over a double page spread and the quality was superb so I can't really understand the problem.
Discussion
21 repliesI am open to reasonable offers on the camera bodies and will supply images of the bodies if required
Seriously though - I find this a little odd. Surely the agency will have little or no knowledge (or interest) in the camera the image was shot on. The end file size is what matters and 10Mp res is going to be easily interpolated with NO discernible loss of quality to a pretty large size to satisfy even the most stringent agency criteria.
If this is the situation, I would ditch the agency!
As to your comment with regard cameras - you cannot compare the 1Ds-II with the previous 1Ds - chalk and cheese. Much higher resolution coupled with extremely low noise at all ISOs. The 1Ds is very poor past 320asa compared to the 1Ds-II.
Good luck with the sale
Barrie :)
If you can't withdraw what is already in their library, then leave it where it is and send newer stuff to your next agency. Take a look through most libraries and you find familiar names cropping up - very few people remain with only one library.
How's Barry BTW?
Assuming you don't want to splash out on a new 1Dsmk2 I would suggest the 5D as a stop gap until the new 1D is released (probably early next year), although you might miss the 'machine gun' mode of the 1DII and the 45 pt AF. A used 1Ds might also be an option, I see them going for about £2000 in the UK. Upside is you get a 1 series body, the 45point AF. Downside is the noise at higher ISO, smaller LCD, slowish CF write and review times.
It is still very surprising that agencies make such broad brush requirements about image size and megapixels without understanding all the aspects of image quality. Given that 99% of stock image sales are reproduced at less than A4 size, and a good file from an 8 megapixel SLR easily prints upto A3 size it makes you wonder what they are thinking about.
cheers
Sean
The bar, albeit a ridiculus bar, is only going to get higher (by those who trade/buy) when the next crop of Nik-Can's replacements are announced.
Dave, just a thought, will that next bunch of MP+ cameras make the 5D 12.8M images obsolete? I don't know, but what I do know is that this is more likely than making the 16.7M images of a 1Ds2 obselete.
Being at the top end means 4 years grace, even Artie (who at the time said that the 1D2 was the 'muts nuts') finally moved to a 1DS2.
FWISW, I have a already, mentally, put a deposit down on the next Canon dream machine
Take your images up to the size they require and strip the EXIF, how are they going to know what camera was used?
BTW the 5D is very solid with ergonomics that I prefer with excellent image quality particularly from RAW through C1Pro, (its what I use for my everyday work) I have never managed to get on with the 1 series controls, but that is just me.
All the best
Phil
Having used the 1DsII for over year now, I find it is a pig for any fast action shots, either wildlife or flying jet aircraft, my older 1D made a much better job of focus lock and tracking. Other failing is the buffer transfer speed, if you hit full a buffer it seems like an age to clear out ready for use again.
Having used and been spoilt by the 1DII/n I think you will find anything else in Canon's line up at present fairly disappointing on focus speed and buffer transfer rate
Mike
If you took a photo tomorrow of the Loch Ness Monster or Elvis, Lord Lucan or Osama sunbathing on Lake Geneva, would they turn it down if it was even taken on a D30...?
...don't bank on getting £200 back from Canon...
Sent off my forms and the bar code off my box over 3 months ago (on the very day I bought my 5d) and I'm still waiting to receive confirmation of them receiving the form which according to them they were suppost to email to me within 7/14 days of receipt (can't remember now) then I was supposed to receive the £200 cheque almost immediately
It's one big con....
ps..the 5d is one cool camera...not a speed machine like the 1d2, you just have to be a bit more precise when pressing the shutter..you can't machine gun things like you can with the 1d2
Thanks for replying to my query regarding agencies a few weeks ago. What agency do you use just out of interest?
regards Chris.
www.c-m-l.com
Your thread ties in nicely with a previous thread about the Megapixel race. My main concern with the attitude shown by the Agancies and Libraries is that the cost of a 1DMkIIn hasn't fallen accordingly. If it is not considered a "pro" body anymore the price should drop.
The main reason given by a lot of agencies is that it helps to keep the numbers of submissions down to a workable level. Lets face it, every photographer with a DSLR wants to sell their images if they can. If the agencies didn't have some sort of minimum requirement in place they'd have a queue round the block every day. That's all well and good, but how many good nature photographers can afford to go get the latest generation DSLRs every year or so? I know some very well respected pros who have moved to the 5D as the 1DSMkII is not a justifiable cost. If the agencies turn around in 6 months and say that they don't accept images from a DSLR less than 16MP what then? The only guys able to submit will be 1DSMkII owners.
It is stupid but it also is a fact of life. We'll all have to remortgage the house to buy a 22MP DSLR soon and can the agencies guarantee that our images will sell enough to recoup the cost?
Rob
It is considered a pro body, it always will be if you are a sports shooter: its main market. This is why the price won't drop. The problem is that some nature picture agencies starting to think they are stock agencies and forgetting the conditions underwhich Nature photographers work --- next they will be asking for stuff only on the H3D
One thing, whilst they may 'advise' a move to a higher res body, they will not put the prices up, in fact some are now taking 50/50
However, all that said if you are making any money (as a pro-am) then depreciating the residual camera body cost over a period of 3 years is not that ardious - what I would be complaining about is that the top spec 35mm body about 5 years ago was around £1500 where as the next line up (5 years later) is likely to be just shy of £6K, thats some increase
Do they earn you enough to make the loss/cost of an upgrade justifiable?
A
Well maybe this is just what we have to live with, you can't fight these things can you...
Wanna start an agency anyone
I'm seriously considering this... 50/50 just isn't on and I don't have that many overheads...
I'm also considering working the agency as a co-op.
A
I am in the same boat as you, I have submiited my work to an agency and although they liked what they saw. They had misgivings about the camera which I took them on. I first submitted ten images which was hard as you have got to grab their attention with just a small sample of work. They then asked me to submit a further 200 images for consideration and I am waiting for a responce, which I hope is good news. I have had pictures published over a double page spread and the quality was superb so I can't really understand the problem.
Danny