Posted by James H Egbert on October 24, 2006 at 12:23 PM
I've been struggling with a Shopping Cart system that some time ago I worked with someone else here in developing, but it never worked in any Mozilla Browser while working perfectly in any other browser. Now I finally have one that works in a crude fashion, but it works.
I still need to tweak it but for now I can live with it. Anyone have any thoughts on how I can make it more functional? I'd be happy to try just about anything.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on October 24, 2006 at 4:36 PM
James,
I have been thinking about this as well. So I decided to check out some our forum member's sites.
For simplicity sake I like what Scott Bacon has done. He uses a paypal shopping cart. Most people are familiar with paypal and they handle all the credit card transactions and transfering of funds. http://baconphoto.com/gallery/image1.php?category=19&id=197
With my goal of keeping it simple, I really like using paypal as a direct payment option. I would imagine setting up their shopping cart would be pretty straight forward.
I am using paypal, and where i run into problems is with the ability to offer multiple variations of a product that effects the pricing. i have been looking at Scotts code too and like it, however it does not work with my Gallery set up.
Posted by Nat Coalson on October 24, 2006 at 10:31 PM
My experience has been that a shopping cart is unneccesary and possibly detracts from sales by making the "product" seem like a commodity. But of course, this depends on whether you are selling a $15 calendar or a $500 framed piece. (Admittedly, there's lots in-between.)
And even with smaller items, unless you really expect to have more than a few orders per day, I'd leave the shopping cart out, and focus on making the site more of a portfolio.
You can make it easy for people to buy through PayPal, without a shopping cart at all.
I believe that people serious about a piece of art will buy even if it means they have to contact you first.
On my site, I can track the shopping carts, and there are literally thousands of people who have placed items in their cart, but a relatively small percentage who have purchased through the shopping cart. Usually, they email or call to say they like XYZ image, and what are the options?
I like to sell a finished, framed piece, and that's impossible to do effectively with a shopping cart, if for no other reason than the frame needs to be designed for the piece of art and the space it's going in.
Check out art.com and see how they have addressed this. Then consider if that's the image you want to cultivate.
I, for one, am preparing to relaunch my site without a shopping cart. But I know this is not the best for everyone.
If you want to use a shopping cart:
1) Use open source Perl CGI or PHP - and never ASP, .NET or other specific application server protocol.
2) Find a simple, small cart that will integrate into your existing site, instead of building your site around a storefront system like OpenCommerce. Otherwise your interface design will suffer greatly.
3) Use a cart that integrates seamlessly with PayPal
4) Use a cart that allows you to customize the options for a product selection
One thing to keep in mind is that real-time updates to pricing based on selection of options requires JavaScript, and that if someone unexplainably has JS disabled, your cart won't work. This is just one example of why it's important to look into all the possible technology problems that may be encountered when using the cart. The worst thing would be to spend the time and money setting up a cart, and have it break for users.
Mark Ferguson would be a good expert to get an opinion from on these things; hopefully he'll join this thread?
Posted by Michael Renner on October 25, 2006 at 12:25 AM
Nat,
I think you make a compelling argument here. I have recently been working a site re-design and have been pondering the whole shopping cart issue. Sometimes I feel like people get too carried away with having all their cart options available under each image in a multiple image gallery page. It kind of detracts from the artwork and overall flow of the site. Not trying to offend anyone - as I nearly bought a template that was based on this type of design!
I think keeping it low key on the actual image page or redirecting everything to a seperate order page is the way to go... For instance, I like what Jack Brauer has done on his site. I think it is accessible, and provides a nice presentation. Of course - I don't sell much from the web as my site is atrocious and out of date. Love to hear what others have to say...
Posted by Scott Bacon on October 25, 2006 at 10:04 AM
Nat brings up some good points to consider...
On the flip-side to taking the "Portfolio" approach (which I have done myself, on and off, for years)... A shopping cart announces that you are "open for business." Much more so, than a link saying "email me if you are interested in puchasing" (IMHO). It also portrays a level of commitment to selling (whether it exists, or not) and can even distiguish you as a "professional" in the mind of a potnetial buyer. To photographers, "professional" should mean nothing more than "you sell your photography." But for potential buyers "professional" may include some sense of enhanced or better quality. And may help close the deal.
FWIW, I've had a photo website, in one form or another, since 1998. My design has changed a number of times and I've had a shopping cart on some incarnations and not on others. Regardless, I still don't generate many sales from the web. Most sales, especially bigger pieces are done via email. But I have noticed an increase in sales of pieces smaller than 11x14 since I added my most recent shopping cart, last year. Today's web surfers are getting more comfortable buying directly through the web.
Like many things, it is a personal choice. How would you like your website to portray your images? Like a portfolio? Like an art gallery? Or like Walmart?
What is wrong with ASP.NET? Have you ever coded with it? I utilize ASP.NET and have "seamlessly" been able to integrate with PayPal with the freely available PayPal tools? Why not recommend whatever works best? And to utilize whatever technology someone might be most comfortable coding in? Isn't your website in CF?
RichieV
Posted by Michael Renner on October 25, 2006 at 10:39 AM
Scott,
Good points as well - and thanks for relaying your experience with online sales. It is interesting that you are seeing an uptake in the smaller print sizes. Perhaps the cart makes it easier to pull in that impulse buy on the smaller sizes. Whereas say a 16x20 or 24x30 is something a person thinks on a bit more, emails about framing options, etc...
The increasing comfort around online shopping and using things like Paypal are really making a difference I would suspect as well!
Michael
Posted by Scott Bacon on October 25, 2006 at 10:40 AM
BTW, My Walmart comment was certainly NOT meant to compare the website of anyone here to a convenience store. There are many, many beautiful and well done websites among RMNPers.
I was just trying to describe both ends of the spectrum, from a "Portfolio" website approach, to an approach that over-productizes one's photographic art - which I doubt any of us here, as artists, would want.
Posted by James H Egbert on October 25, 2006 at 12:29 PM
Well i managed to finally integrate the shopping cart better into my galleries and thus made it even easier for my customers. Now to address whether or not a shopping cart helps, i would have to say yes. My sales more than doubled when i first put a cart on the site. Even though a majority of my sales are corporate sales, the private sales have jumped too. The key is to use the same approach as you would your photography. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid. It works.
i have about one to two galleries to finish integrating the even newer cart to.
Posted by Rick Dunn on October 25, 2006 at 2:10 PM
Here's what my cart system looks/works like: Cart Test Page. It's a test page, but you can take it through all the way to PayPal - just don't place the order unless you really want to buy!
There is code that you can add to a standard paypal cart system that allows for some flexibility. I used PayPal Shop Builder to generate the code for my site. It has limited functionality - you can't have dozens of options - but it does allow for multiple options that can have additional charges associated with them. I'm sure that there are better and/or more flexible approaches, but this matched up well with my desire to keep it very simple.
I haven't implemented it yet. The cart functionality is good to go, but I want to get away from html for the purchasing section of my site and go to php or something similar. Looks like I need to contract Jack for that part; I've been trying to get to it for a year with no luck.
Now that's nice Rick, More of what i was trying to do but could not implement.
Posted by Derek Sedillo on October 25, 2006 at 3:54 PM
Rick,
I really like that functionality and the price seems reasonable.
I am just curious what the advantage is of going with PHP over HTML. I am a software engineer and have used many scripting and programming languages. But for me I want to keep things simple (i.e. - HTML) unless there is technological advantage in using something more involved.
Maybe one would want to connect to a database such as mySQL to keep track of customer orders, etc... Then I could see an advantage to using PHP, Cold Fusion, .NET...
Posted by Brent Murphy on October 25, 2006 at 5:41 PM
My plan (still not implemented) is to use PHPCart, very similar to the Paypal shopping cart, and integrates nicely with PayPal. The only advantage to PHPCart, I believe, is the ability to use coupon-codes, which I thought might come in handy if I wanted to offer discounts. http://phpcart.net/
Posted by Rick Dunn on October 25, 2006 at 6:09 PM
Brent,
I see that the php cart allows for up to 3 options (e.g., mat, frame, etc.), but can you associate an up-charge with those? In other words, can you have several mat options - for example, selecting a small mat adds $8, a med mat adds $12 and a large mat adds $20. I've seen many cart systems with options, but those options are just qualifiers (red, blue, green...small, med., large, XL) with no ability to up-charge for the selected option.
Posted by Brent Murphy on October 25, 2006 at 8:06 PM
Rick - Not sure if that's possible. It's been a while since I read all the documentation. Like you, I started working on this about a year ago, when there were a few "shopping cart" threads on the forum, but haven't really touched it since.
However, I'm not sure I'd be interested in that type of up-charge option anyway. I can see myself offering print-only, matted, and framed as 3 options, but don't see the need for qualifiers beyond that. That's the way I've been offering my stuff for a while, and I haven't needed anything else.
I may have to investigate this a little more, though, in case I change my mind.
Discussion
17 repliesI still need to tweak it but for now I can live with it. Anyone have any thoughts on how I can make it more functional? I'd be happy to try just about anything.
I have been thinking about this as well. So I decided to check out some our forum member's sites.
For simplicity sake I like what Scott Bacon has done. He uses a paypal shopping cart. Most people are familiar with paypal and they handle all the credit card transactions and transfering of funds.
http://baconphoto.com/gallery/image1.php?category=19&id=197
With my goal of keeping it simple, I really like using paypal as a direct payment option. I would imagine setting up their shopping cart would be pretty straight forward.
For a pre-built solution EOSTemplate looks pretty good:
http://www.eostemplate.com/eos/index.html#top0
And even with smaller items, unless you really expect to have more than a few orders per day, I'd leave the shopping cart out, and focus on making the site more of a portfolio.
You can make it easy for people to buy through PayPal, without a shopping cart at all.
I believe that people serious about a piece of art will buy even if it means they have to contact you first.
On my site, I can track the shopping carts, and there are literally thousands of people who have placed items in their cart, but a relatively small percentage who have purchased through the shopping cart. Usually, they email or call to say they like XYZ image, and what are the options?
I like to sell a finished, framed piece, and that's impossible to do effectively with a shopping cart, if for no other reason than the frame needs to be designed for the piece of art and the space it's going in.
Check out art.com and see how they have addressed this. Then consider if that's the image you want to cultivate.
I, for one, am preparing to relaunch my site without a shopping cart. But I know this is not the best for everyone.
If you want to use a shopping cart:
1) Use open source Perl CGI or PHP - and never ASP, .NET or other specific application server protocol.
2) Find a simple, small cart that will integrate into your existing site, instead of building your site around a storefront system like OpenCommerce. Otherwise your interface design will suffer greatly.
3) Use a cart that integrates seamlessly with PayPal
4) Use a cart that allows you to customize the options for a product selection
One thing to keep in mind is that real-time updates to pricing based on selection of options requires JavaScript, and that if someone unexplainably has JS disabled, your cart won't work. This is just one example of why it's important to look into all the possible technology problems that may be encountered when using the cart. The worst thing would be to spend the time and money setting up a cart, and have it break for users.
Mark Ferguson would be a good expert to get an opinion from on these things; hopefully he'll join this thread?
I think you make a compelling argument here. I have recently been working a site re-design and have been pondering the whole shopping cart issue. Sometimes I feel like people get too carried away with having all their cart options available under each image in a multiple image gallery page. It kind of detracts from the artwork and overall flow of the site. Not trying to offend anyone - as I nearly bought a template that was based on this type of design!
I think keeping it low key on the actual image page or redirecting everything to a seperate order page is the way to go... For instance, I like what Jack Brauer has done on his site. I think it is accessible, and provides a nice presentation. Of course - I don't sell much from the web as my site is atrocious and out of date.
On the flip-side to taking the "Portfolio" approach (which I have done myself, on and off, for years)... A shopping cart announces that you are "open for business." Much more so, than a link saying "email me if you are interested in puchasing" (IMHO). It also portrays a level of commitment to selling (whether it exists, or not) and can even distiguish you as a "professional" in the mind of a potnetial buyer. To photographers, "professional" should mean nothing more than "you sell your photography." But for potential buyers "professional" may include some sense of enhanced or better quality. And may help close the deal.
FWIW, I've had a photo website, in one form or another, since 1998. My design has changed a number of times and I've had a shopping cart on some incarnations and not on others. Regardless, I still don't generate many sales from the web. Most sales, especially bigger pieces are done via email. But I have noticed an increase in sales of pieces smaller than 11x14 since I added my most recent shopping cart, last year. Today's web surfers are getting more comfortable buying directly through the web.
Like many things, it is a personal choice. How would you like your website to portray your images? Like a portfolio? Like an art gallery? Or like Walmart?
Just curious?
What is wrong with ASP.NET? Have you ever coded with it? I utilize ASP.NET and have "seamlessly" been able to integrate with PayPal with the freely available PayPal tools? Why not recommend whatever works best? And to utilize whatever technology someone might be most comfortable coding in? Isn't your website in CF?
RichieV
Good points as well - and thanks for relaying your experience with online sales. It is interesting that you are seeing an uptake in the smaller print sizes. Perhaps the cart makes it easier to pull in that impulse buy on the smaller sizes. Whereas say a 16x20 or 24x30 is something a person thinks on a bit more, emails about framing options, etc...
The increasing comfort around online shopping and using things like Paypal are really making a difference I would suspect as well!
Michael
I was just trying to describe both ends of the spectrum, from a "Portfolio" website approach, to an approach that over-productizes one's photographic art - which I doubt any of us here, as artists, would want.
i have about one to two galleries to finish integrating the even newer cart to.
There is code that you can add to a standard paypal cart system that allows for some flexibility. I used PayPal Shop Builder to generate the code for my site. It has limited functionality - you can't have dozens of options - but it does allow for multiple options that can have additional charges associated with them. I'm sure that there are better and/or more flexible approaches, but this matched up well with my desire to keep it very simple.
I haven't implemented it yet. The cart functionality is good to go, but I want to get away from html for the purchasing section of my site and go to php or something similar. Looks like I need to contract Jack for that part; I've been trying to get to it for a year with no luck.
I really like that functionality and the price seems reasonable.
I am just curious what the advantage is of going with PHP over HTML. I am a software engineer and have used many scripting and programming languages. But for me I want to keep things simple (i.e. - HTML) unless there is technological advantage in using something more involved.
Maybe one would want to connect to a database such as mySQL to keep track of customer orders, etc... Then I could see an advantage to using PHP, Cold Fusion, .NET...
http://phpcart.net/
I see that the php cart allows for up to 3 options (e.g., mat, frame, etc.), but can you associate an up-charge with those? In other words, can you have several mat options - for example, selecting a small mat adds $8, a med mat adds $12 and a large mat adds $20. I've seen many cart systems with options, but those options are just qualifiers (red, blue, green...small, med., large, XL) with no ability to up-charge for the selected option.
However, I'm not sure I'd be interested in that type of up-charge option anyway. I can see myself offering print-only, matted, and framed as 3 options, but don't see the need for qualifiers beyond that. That's the way I've been offering my stuff for a while, and I haven't needed anything else.
I may have to investigate this a little more, though, in case I change my mind.
I don't personally have anything against ASP.NET but in general I am a fan of the open source movement.
Yes, I do use lots of ColdFusion on my site, but I am looking forward to the day when I can migrate the site to PHP entirely.
The main reason? Cost of the app server and shared hosting; same goes for CF.