Posted by Steve Storm on October 27, 2006 at 8:22 PM
OK; I'm the newbie and I expect to take some heat for this. I'd appreciate viewers weighing in (yay/nay?) on this image. Is the image discusting (inappropriate?) or is it a valid statement of nature photography and/or by nature photographers (me!); however inadequately rendered?
Taken today on Eagle Creek in the Columbia River Gorge, Oregon. Specie is believed to be chinook salmon (Oncorhynchus tschawytscha). It was identified as a wild (not hatchery) fish.
Details: 24-85mm at 78mm; f/16. No polarizer; the color cast is due to reflected light from the yellow foliage of Big Leaf Maples in the sun (creek is in shade). Freehand crop and re-oriented (I cropped out some rocks). Some burning of salmon. I know DOF and acuity are problems, but (excuses follow) the fish is half in the water and alive/moving, the water is moving, I'm in the water, etc. Anyway, it was an interesting experience.
Comments, thoughts, reactions appreciated.
Thanks!
Steve
Posted by Lee Newman on October 27, 2006 at 10:23 PM
Hi Steve,
Its a great image and nothing wrong (IMO) with posting such images. In the PNW its not only a part of the landscape (hard to argue that with salmon genetic markers being found in trees!), but it is in part what defines the people that lived here long before we did - to say nothing of the west coast ecosystem the salmon support. No heat from here - great image as I said. Incidently, I was out today in (actually, beside) our local creek where the salmon come up to spawn and die - lots of wif, unfortunately not much in the way of great photo-ops.
It's an evocative, beautiful photo. IMO, enough of the fish is sharp to make this work. And ditto the above from Lee. Welcome to NPN.
Posted by Rick Lamb on October 28, 2006 at 9:37 AM
Welcome to the forum Steve!!!
I'm all over this one!!! I think it does exactly what a great image is supposed to do - it tells a story!!
No nits from me at all!! Well done and a hearty welcome to you!!
Posted by Mark Hudon on October 28, 2006 at 11:36 AM
I really like it but I think it could have benefitted from a little more background. By background I mean something to give me more of a sense of place. A sense of place would help tell the story, IMHO.
Posted by Mearle Gates on October 28, 2006 at 3:10 PM
Excellent! But I'd dare say if you made too large a print it would oversize the salmon beyond life size. So you might want to choose another version of this that includes more water if you enlarge this a lot.
Posted by Curtis Knight on October 28, 2006 at 6:20 PM
Great image Steve, and welcome to the forum! It's all about the nature and telling a story. This does just that.
Posted by Steve Storm on October 29, 2006 at 1:11 AM
Thanks to all for your comments. Mark, I agree with the "sense of place" thought. I just couldn't see how to do it with this salmon in that location (it's about 150 yards south of the footbridge). I did shoot several other salmon with more of a "sense of place;" I'll have to take another look at those images.
Mearle, I take your point. More water would be beneficial for a print. Above is the same fish in a slightly different location. I've moved, the lighting has changed (no, that's not my shadow on the water), and I'm now using the 24-85mm at 24. Exposure is 1 second at f/16. This was taken just under two minutes after the image in the initial post. I've taken a 2:1 crop roughly from the center of the image as captured.
Any additional thoughts and comments are appreciated.
Steve
Posted by Mearle Gates on October 29, 2006 at 12:43 PM
Now can you get that dynamic from the fish at about 45 degrees again?
Posted by Doyle Thomas on October 29, 2006 at 5:10 PM
Your second post is a better composition. The simultaneous contrast presented between the orange and red is wonderful. The center placement however states that this image is about a life-less fish. I wonder if you could recompose and make this image more about "orange and red" and less about a dead fish by printing full frame and thus making the fish a smaller part of the overall image. The eye would still be directed towards the orange where it would then "discover" that the fish is dead so I do not think the inpact would be lost.
Posted by John Lehmkuhl on October 30, 2006 at 12:36 PM
I like #2 a lot more - it's be nice if you could have gotten more background trees/river shore to put this into a clear place/location.... amazing how nature works and to be able to walk along and see it happening.
Posted by Ned Fenimore on October 30, 2006 at 6:07 PM
Wonderful shot - I dig the second post.
Posted by Mike Stovall on October 31, 2006 at 4:01 AM
Hi Steve,
This is a nature story that needs to be told. And how appropriate for Autumn and the Pacific Northwest. This fish is, in a strictly metaphorical sense, a swimming version of an autumn leaf. Both turn brilliant colors. Both will die in order to ensure survival of the larger organism (the tree in one case and the species in the other). New leaves will sprout and salmon eggs will hatch to launch the next generation. Though each cycle is as necessary as the other, that of the leaf is romantic, while the salmon's is poignant, primarily because we anthropomorphize the salmon, projecting on it the archetypes of both the hero and the martyr in it's epic journey upstream to give its life to the next generation. Whose destiny is it that we really mourn for in this photo?
I think the fish in #1 Looks captures more of a struggle for life (maybe it's the immediacy of its eyes and face?) while #2 looks more lifeless, but is a better "environment" shot. I think it depends on what story you are trying to tell.
On a lighter note, I don't think this would sell well as wall art for seafood restaraunts.
Discussion
12 repliesTaken today on Eagle Creek in the Columbia River Gorge, Oregon. Specie is believed to be chinook salmon (Oncorhynchus tschawytscha). It was identified as a wild (not hatchery) fish.
Details: 24-85mm at 78mm; f/16. No polarizer; the color cast is due to reflected light from the yellow foliage of Big Leaf Maples in the sun (creek is in shade). Freehand crop and re-oriented (I cropped out some rocks). Some burning of salmon. I know DOF and acuity are problems, but (excuses follow) the fish is half in the water and alive/moving, the water is moving, I'm in the water, etc. Anyway, it was an interesting experience.
Comments, thoughts, reactions appreciated.
Thanks!
Steve
Its a great image and nothing wrong (IMO) with posting such images. In the PNW its not only a part of the landscape (hard to argue that with salmon genetic markers being found in trees!), but it is in part what defines the people that lived here long before we did - to say nothing of the west coast ecosystem the salmon support. No heat from here - great image as I said. Incidently, I was out today in (actually, beside) our local creek where the salmon come up to spawn and die - lots of wif, unfortunately not much in the way of great photo-ops.
Cheers,
Lee
I'm all over this one!!! I think it does exactly what a great image is supposed to do - it tells a story!!
No nits from me at all!! Well done and a hearty welcome to you!!
Mearle, I take your point. More water would be beneficial for a print. Above is the same fish in a slightly different location. I've moved, the lighting has changed (no, that's not my shadow on the water), and I'm now using the 24-85mm at 24. Exposure is 1 second at f/16. This was taken just under two minutes after the image in the initial post. I've taken a 2:1 crop roughly from the center of the image as captured.
Any additional thoughts and comments are appreciated.
Steve
This is a nature story that needs to be told. And how appropriate for Autumn and the Pacific Northwest. This fish is, in a strictly metaphorical sense, a swimming version of an autumn leaf. Both turn brilliant colors. Both will die in order to ensure survival of the larger organism (the tree in one case and the species in the other). New leaves will sprout and salmon eggs will hatch to launch the next generation. Though each cycle is as necessary as the other, that of the leaf is romantic, while the salmon's is poignant, primarily because we anthropomorphize the salmon, projecting on it the archetypes of both the hero and the martyr in it's epic journey upstream to give its life to the next generation. Whose destiny is it that we really mourn for in this photo?
I think the fish in #1 Looks captures more of a struggle for life (maybe it's the immediacy of its eyes and face?) while #2 looks more lifeless, but is a better "environment" shot. I think it depends on what story you are trying to tell.
On a lighter note, I don't think this would sell well as wall art for seafood restaraunts.
Cheers,
Mike