I was just wondering what the general feeling is about how images are reviewed and critiqued on this site. There is no doubt that some of the images shown are superb. But some (including mine!) are less good.
To my mind there have been a fair number of mediocre images posted recently which have still recieved very positive comments. Although encouraging for the owner I wonder if it actually does anyone any favours in the long run. I lurked on the forum for a while and learnt a lot from reading the comments/nits picked up on pictures - but it seems recently that less constructive critique is being made on pictures - this will surely result in an increasing number of lower quality submissions to the site - and a lower "bar" to aim for.
Any thoughts? I realise I am generalising a lot but are people just too warm and fuzzy to say when they don't think a particular shot works - even if it is technically ok?
That said can we remember that, if critique is to be supplied please make it sincere and constructive - tongue in cheek and humour really needs to be written well for no misunderstanding to occur. Smilies only work with well written words.
Posted by writepic on November 9, 2006 at 12:33 PM
hi chas,
good comment. there are many why's and wherefore's here, probably too many and too obvious to mention.
just suffice to say, if it's well constructed, then i personally would welcome more hard hitting critique, especially to my work, as it does indeed omprove one's work.
m
Posted by Sean Bolton on November 9, 2006 at 2:36 PM
Hi Chas
This is a big topic. My feeling is the level of comment and feedback on the forum is generally useful and constructive, and praise is given where praise is deserved. The standard of photography is very high on this forum so trying to find faults with many images is often quite difficult other than just very minor observations.
I think if you want some stronger feedback then the best thing is to provoke it by asking a question in your post such as 'Does this composition work?'. I think people will give stronger comments if you have indicated you want feedback.
Otherwise it takes some careful words to suggest improvements without offending the poster. Human nature is that we all want to get along so people are more cautious about posting very negative feedback.
Tom's link to the critique guidelines says it all really, but for what it is worth here is my thought process when looking at images ;
1. Technically is it ok? Sharp, and sharp in the right place, good colour, levels, noise, etc
2. Is the composition ok? Are there are distractions to the image, or would a different shooting angle or background work better. Is the subject placed well in the frame.
3. Is the image appealing? This is more subjective but normally my gut reaction on viewing an image for the first time says it all, do you immediately view the image and find it appealing or interesting to view. Images are appealing for different reasons, a great subject, a super portrait, some dynamic behaviour, great colours or detail, etc.
Having assessed the image I generally try to point out the things I like about it before saying what I don't like or that I think might improve the image.
Critiquing images is quite time consuming and it can take a while to put together even a two line comment trying to get the wording right so it is not misinterpreted.
Also before posting an image for comment I will spend some time commenting on some of the recent posts on the forum. Most posts get between 6 and 12 comments so I usually try to comment on this number of images before posting. Critique is a two way street and if you comment regularly yourself I think this will attract more comments in return.
Also it can be a bit intimidating seeing some of the top quality images posted on the forum and you might feel uneasy about being critical about them. However I think everyone appreciates some honest feedback, even if they might not agree witht the comments, it is often useful just to get some different opinions and ideas.
I will stop waffling now, time to cook tea, but before doing so I will post my Mute Swan Landing shot from Slimbridge last weekend. Please feel free to comment
Perhaps how the forum has become the successful,friendly and informative place it is today,and has always been right from the word go.
Sure there are are plenty of 'nice shot' comments,but on the other hand there's no shortage of valuable critique and advice also.You only have to ask if there's a specific element of your image that you'd like feedback on.
Certainly the level of critique on NPN is of fairly high standard...esp when compared to other popular photo posting sites.
As a forum it is a highly informative and friendly place to be. Sure there are spats from time to time between members (I include myself here too) but these are nearly always dealt with in a positive and fair manner by the mods.
There seem to be many reasons why ppl post shots here; some to advertise their pro services, some to get help in improving their photo skils, some to show others what level they are at and many more. Not everyone wants or appreciates tough critique of their shots and the longer you are here the more you become aware of what groups the contributors fall into. Some folks never post any shots at all and give some severe critique, even this is not frowned on too much.
I'd say that the recent shots that have been posted are pretty much in line with what has always been posted here; some good and some not quite as good, but the level of critique is also pretty much on a par with what it has always been.
I could be wrong, but I would think that after months of lurking and now participating you are becoming increasingly picky on not just the level of shots posted , but also on the level of critique being posted too. The bar is set high and when the odd shot or critique or two fall below the bar it doesn't mean that the site is suffering. Most should be able to take something away from this forum that is positive and helpful, but the old cliche of putting in a lot to get a lot out still stands.
Funny thing......I can't remember anyone ever accusing me of being too nice.
Hi Chas, it's an interesting discussion you are opening. My feelings on the subject is that in general the standard of the photos here on site are pretty high, but most of all, I think the critique here is incredibly constructive - and much more so than any other sites I have seen - including the main NPN.
Of course some times we see mediocre photos, but if they are from lesser experienced photographers I think you don't gain by harsh critique. Instead say what you like about the picture, and also point out one or two mistakes that can easyly be corrected. No reason to offend people, but instead motivate them to improve. In the main forum mediocre photos get less comments because people are afraid to be negative. That's a pity as those are the photos that really need the comments. I think the "American way" of critique with lots of positive both before and after the negative in the end is a very construtive way to deal with the subject. Personally I tend to be rather direct (that's very Danish), but I think from time to time it can be experienced a bit offensive.
Cheers, Helge
Posted by David Kjaer on November 9, 2006 at 6:19 PM
Hi Chas
In general I would disagree with your perception of the critique on the forum and feel that many valuable and constructive comments are regularly made. Yes we all see images from time to time that we feel are probably less than mediocre with very positive comments credited to them - but remember beauty is in the 'eye of the beholder'
You say that you feel recently standards are falling and yet the forum is probably more popular than ever so it must be doing something right for so many people to enjoy it. I don't think the bar has been lowered, but that your photography has probably improved and you have raised the bar!
As for David's inference that the forum is becoming a chatline between buddies I find this remark to be flippant and disrespectful. I for one can count on one hand the number of people who post on the forum that I have met and if I want a chat I will pick up the telephone!
Anyway Chas you have started an interesting thread but I must say in general I disagree with your view as I think it does a good job and I for one have benefited from the images I have seen and the critique I have read.
One final point I have seen many posts on this forum (including a couple from me) where photographers have asked for advice or assistance and it is always given freely by some very knowledgeable people.
David
Posted by Chas Spradbery on November 10, 2006 at 4:09 AM
Thanks for your responses guys - I knew this was going to be a slightly contreversial topic when I posted it. I also knew that the next picture I post will probably be roundly blasted from all sides!!
I guess i just feel that well handled constructive comments are so very helpful in improving the standard of photography - not just for the owner of the picture being commented on - but also for everyone else who looks at the picture. This forum is way above pretty much very other nature photography forum on the web in terms of quality (of both pics and comments).
As suggested above - if I value a higher level of comments/critisism than perhaps others are confortable with I should mention this in my posts - Although after starting this thread I doubt if there will be any need!
I do believe that one of the problems is that the art of critique is difficult to master well, and many feel a touch intimidated in trying it. Constructive critique is I believe valuable no matter what level of nature photographer you are as you can often become blind to 'faults' in your own images.
Sean has the art down very well and his post is very informative, I always look to what I like in an image first then at how it could be improved, always remembering that you do not know the full circumstances involved in obtaining the image, the person, or their level of expertise. If I make a negative comment I am always available to further explain and try to advise, in fact I have spent many hours on the telephone doing this.
As stated critique is a two way thing, comment on others work and you will gain, even if people disagree with your comments you will learn how others are percieving the image, also remember that a 'mediocre' image may have benn taken in extremely difficult circumstances and may be the best that could be obtained, and therefore should deserve some credit for this.
Often I will just fly through the posted images without commenting (pressure of work) and then come back much later to comment to find my nits already covered...
My view... I am happy to read any comments made on my images no matter how good or bad they are, I may not agree, but it gives me another perspective as to how others view my work and at the same time I will comment on as many images as I can time permitting.
BTW John... as a professional I don't believe I have used the forum to promote my services
Posted by Graeme Lee on November 10, 2006 at 5:15 AM
A good thread Chas and I shall remove my images instantly
The thing about this site is the images are of a very high standard and the photographers are of a very high standard too, and I as a lesser skilled photographer benefit greatly from being involved with these types of people on the forum.
I work very hard to get any half decent images (huge lack of time) and as a paying member post images that I sometimes know aren't of the highest quality, but that I consider acceptable for viewing and critiquing. If I didn't post these half decent images, I wouldn't post anything at all and I get a lot of enjoyment and benefit hugely by receiving what I consider extrememly helpful feedback.
Some people haven't time to give a full critique, but from time to time when they do, it's incredibly helpful. I know you're not having a bash at people on here, but thought I would just add my feelings on this subject. This is one of the best sites I have come across and that I consider there's none better to learn on.
regards
Graeme(very late for work now!!)
Posted by Dave Courtenay on November 10, 2006 at 8:14 AM
Images are like ties some people like them and some dont,as Phil rightly says some images seem maybe mediocre but there has been a lot of effort behind it,take my last post of a chamois,not the best or worst in the world but after a month of trying i was pleased with the result however the comments told me how the image could be improved,also i think most people on this forum are more bird orientated and bird images tend to get more comments than mammals but constructive critique is always given,If you supply 200 images to an agent he will take about 40 and you can bet he doesnt take the ones you think are the best so everybody see things differently,i think some people would rather not comment on an image they dont like rather than upset somebody,i think as long as you give reasons why you dont like it then thats fine,I hope the forum says as it is,nice people with top images and always a good place to visit
Posted by Richard Peters on November 10, 2006 at 12:53 PM
Interesting thread and on a subject that I am torn over.
On the one hand there are some very good shots on this site and some good information too. I am by no means a fantastic photographer, in fact I'm very new to the whole thing compared to many of you and this year has probably been my most photographic and accomplished to date. There is a LOT for me to learn still and this site has helped me improve and has also given me goals to aim for as I strive to get the quality of shots some of you manage on a regular basis. I always enjoy looking at the site as I know I'm always going to be seeing something impressive - the standard here really is very high but then there are a lot of people who earn a living from their work here so thats no surprise.
I spent a long time reading this forum before I joined, several months at least and I was unsure if I should join or not because of the nit picking that pops up. I mean if there is a blown highlight or a strong colour cast or a twig across the main subject then sure, its worth a mention. But the 'contsructive' comments seem to go beyond the useful and noteworthy sometimes. I also felt that (and still do to an extent) sometimes images get a more favoured response because of who has posted it. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that certain members are gauranteed positive comments but just that sometimes an image seems to get more glowing critiques than maybe it should. Or maybe its just some people are more in the 'in crowd' as such and so the criticism is worded in a much more friendly and indirect way than it would be for someone else.
Obviously this is all very subjective as everyone likes different things, its just thats these are the thoughts that have always sprung to my mind when viewing this forum. Of course I joined anyway as what matters most is the passion we share for photography and I wanted to contribute to that and because lots of feedback IS good and DOES make sense and WILL help me (or anyone, this isn't just about me - as I said above I have thought this since before I joined) improve.
I get the feeling I'm in the minority with my thoughts that there can be a lot of needless nit picking on this site and thats fine. Will I leave the site because of it? No, of course not, that would be a stupid thing to do. I want to learn how to improve my composition, how to get closer to my subjects undetected, how to learn proper long lens technique and how to one day be good enough to maybe sell work on a semi regular basis. 'The background is too busy, try using a smaller DoF to blur it out more' 'try getting lower to the ground next time for a more personal feel' 'try tweaking the colour balance a tad to bring out the greens' etc etc are all very useful things to be mentioned. I just don't see how someone out there can think that mentioning a 7 pixel high bit of grass needs to be cloned out because its facing the wrong way is being helpful, when its the only thing they say about the picture. Its not helping the person who took the shot and its not helping the members that are reading the comments in the hope of learning from them.
Thats obviously an example I made up, but its the way the site can feel at times when reading peoples comments on one anothers work and its a feeling that not one other photography website gives me, just this one. Of course I still come back for more and thats because on the whole UKNP is so helpful and inspiring. I just feel the quality of the comments made sometimes fall short of the images they go with.
Posted by Philip Kirkham on November 10, 2006 at 5:21 PM
Well, it is an interesting thread, and from what I've read the site must be about right with arguments coming from both camps.
Personally, I learn from any posting, good or mediocre, as I find virtually all the critique very useful. Don't forget that we don't necessarily post all our best images here either, in fact, if I'm ever uncertain about an image, I know that I will soon have my mind made up after posting it here.
I know that it has already been mentioned, but if you really want in depth critique, then add all the techs, give as much info as possible, and ask the good people here what they think!
Best wishes
Phil
Posted by Andrew Forsyth on November 11, 2006 at 7:56 AM
Ok, so I'll be more of a demanding nitpicker in my crits. Post an image Chas, and I'll see what I can do
Overall I think picture posters in the forum need to be more progressive (too many people are trying to mimic the "standard" nature photography style rather than explore their own creativity) and less conventional. Come on, lets really try to push the envelope in here guys and gals.
A
Posted by John MacTavish on November 11, 2006 at 9:34 AM
Andrew,
One of the things I've noticed on any photo forum is that relative newcomers tend to pick up very quickly what the other members of the forum like or dislike and they tend to stick with that style for a while. After a year or so of getting praise for pretty average shots (techs may be good but maybe lack in inspiration) folks soon start to explore their own creativity, and normally it is greeted with positive comments. The transition period between copying and creating can sometimes throw up some way out shots that are neither great photographs nor great art and very often they are met with either no comment or negative ones. The poster should not be deterred by negative comments if he/she is trying to expand their horizons, but equally the person criticising the shot should not be castigated for saying what they feel about it.
I think most of us in here are able to take a good technical shot and can recognise good technical aspects of a shot when it is displayed in front of us. What takes a little more time is trying to decypher if the photographer is intentionally being "untechnical" for art's sake or whether he/she doesn't really have a grasp of the artistic or technical side of things in the first place...this is an area where sometimes critique can be judged to be either too harsh or too friendly.
One thing is for certain though, the forum as a whole always seems to be able to debate these issues in a very positive manner, this is something that nearly all other sites are unable to do very well.
Phil,
I never had you in my thoughts when I typed that statement.
Discussion
17 repliesTo my mind there have been a fair number of mediocre images posted recently which have still recieved very positive comments. Although encouraging for the owner I wonder if it actually does anyone any favours in the long run. I lurked on the forum for a while and learnt a lot from reading the comments/nits picked up on pictures - but it seems recently that less constructive critique is being made on pictures - this will surely result in an increasing number of lower quality submissions to the site - and a lower "bar" to aim for.
Any thoughts? I realise I am generalising a lot but are people just too warm and fuzzy to say when they don't think a particular shot works - even if it is technically ok?
Please see this article on The Art of Image of Critique
That said can we remember that, if critique is to be supplied please make it sincere and constructive - tongue in cheek and humour really needs to be written well for no misunderstanding to occur. Smilies only work with well written words.
hi chas,
good comment. there are many why's and wherefore's here, probably too many and too obvious to mention.
just suffice to say, if it's well constructed, then i personally would welcome more hard hitting critique, especially to my work, as it does indeed omprove one's work.
m
This is a big topic. My feeling is the level of comment and feedback on the forum is generally useful and constructive, and praise is given where praise is deserved. The standard of photography is very high on this forum so trying to find faults with many images is often quite difficult other than just very minor observations.
I think if you want some stronger feedback then the best thing is to provoke it by asking a question in your post such as 'Does this composition work?'. I think people will give stronger comments if you have indicated you want feedback.
Otherwise it takes some careful words to suggest improvements without offending the poster. Human nature is that we all want to get along so people are more cautious about posting very negative feedback.
Tom's link to the critique guidelines says it all really, but for what it is worth here is my thought process when looking at images ;
1. Technically is it ok? Sharp, and sharp in the right place, good colour, levels, noise, etc
2. Is the composition ok? Are there are distractions to the image, or would a different shooting angle or background work better. Is the subject placed well in the frame.
3. Is the image appealing? This is more subjective but normally my gut reaction on viewing an image for the first time says it all, do you immediately view the image and find it appealing or interesting to view. Images are appealing for different reasons, a great subject, a super portrait, some dynamic behaviour, great colours or detail, etc.
Having assessed the image I generally try to point out the things I like about it before saying what I don't like or that I think might improve the image.
Critiquing images is quite time consuming and it can take a while to put together even a two line comment trying to get the wording right so it is not misinterpreted.
Also before posting an image for comment I will spend some time commenting on some of the recent posts on the forum. Most posts get between 6 and 12 comments so I usually try to comment on this number of images before posting. Critique is a two way street and if you comment regularly yourself I think this will attract more comments in return.
Also it can be a bit intimidating seeing some of the top quality images posted on the forum and you might feel uneasy about being critical about them. However I think everyone appreciates some honest feedback, even if they might not agree witht the comments, it is often useful just to get some different opinions and ideas.
I will stop waffling now, time to cook tea, but before doing so I will post my Mute Swan Landing shot from Slimbridge last weekend. Please feel free to comment
cheers
Sean
Well said. Your right. Forums do tend to end up as a chat line between buddies, maybe this helps explain?
It also works the other way as well - good photos can get bashed by nitpickers!
Dave
Forest of Dean, UK
Helps explain what exactly??
Perhaps how the forum has become the successful,friendly and informative place it is today,and has always been right from the word go.
Sure there are are plenty of 'nice shot' comments,but on the other hand there's no shortage of valuable critique and advice also.You only have to ask if there's a specific element of your image that you'd like feedback on.
As a forum it is a highly informative and friendly place to be. Sure there are spats from time to time between members (I include myself here too) but these are nearly always dealt with in a positive and fair manner by the mods.
There seem to be many reasons why ppl post shots here; some to advertise their pro services, some to get help in improving their photo skils, some to show others what level they are at and many more. Not everyone wants or appreciates tough critique of their shots and the longer you are here the more you become aware of what groups the contributors fall into. Some folks never post any shots at all and give some severe critique, even this is not frowned on too much.
I'd say that the recent shots that have been posted are pretty much in line with what has always been posted here; some good and some not quite as good, but the level of critique is also pretty much on a par with what it has always been.
I could be wrong, but I would think that after months of lurking and now participating you are becoming increasingly picky on not just the level of shots posted , but also on the level of critique being posted too. The bar is set high and when the odd shot or critique or two fall below the bar it doesn't mean that the site is suffering. Most should be able to take something away from this forum that is positive and helpful, but the old cliche of putting in a lot to get a lot out still stands.
Funny thing......I can't remember anyone ever accusing me of being too nice.
John
Of course some times we see mediocre photos, but if they are from lesser experienced photographers I think you don't gain by harsh critique. Instead say what you like about the picture, and also point out one or two mistakes that can easyly be corrected. No reason to offend people, but instead motivate them to improve. In the main forum mediocre photos get less comments because people are afraid to be negative. That's a pity as those are the photos that really need the comments. I think the "American way" of critique with lots of positive both before and after the negative in the end is a very construtive way to deal with the subject. Personally I tend to be rather direct (that's very Danish), but I think from time to time it can be experienced a bit offensive.
Cheers, Helge
In general I would disagree with your perception of the critique on the forum and feel that many valuable and constructive comments are regularly made. Yes we all see images from time to time that we feel are probably less than mediocre with very positive comments credited to them - but remember beauty is in the 'eye of the beholder'
You say that you feel recently standards are falling and yet the forum is probably more popular than ever so it must be doing something right for so many people to enjoy it. I don't think the bar has been lowered, but that your photography has probably improved and you have raised the bar!
As for David's inference that the forum is becoming a chatline between buddies I find this remark to be flippant and disrespectful. I for one can count on one hand the number of people who post on the forum that I have met and if I want a chat I will pick up the telephone!
Anyway Chas you have started an interesting thread but I must say in general I disagree with your view as I think it does a good job and I for one have benefited from the images I have seen and the critique I have read.
One final point I have seen many posts on this forum (including a couple from me) where photographers have asked for advice or assistance and it is always given freely by some very knowledgeable people.
David
I guess i just feel that well handled constructive comments are so very helpful in improving the standard of photography - not just for the owner of the picture being commented on - but also for everyone else who looks at the picture. This forum is way above pretty much very other nature photography forum on the web in terms of quality (of both pics and comments).
As suggested above - if I value a higher level of comments/critisism than perhaps others are confortable with I should mention this in my posts - Although after starting this thread I doubt if there will be any need!
I do believe that one of the problems is that the art of critique is difficult to master well, and many feel a touch intimidated in trying it. Constructive critique is I believe valuable no matter what level of nature photographer you are as you can often become blind to 'faults' in your own images.
Sean has the art down very well and his post is very informative, I always look to what I like in an image first then at how it could be improved, always remembering that you do not know the full circumstances involved in obtaining the image, the person, or their level of expertise. If I make a negative comment I am always available to further explain and try to advise, in fact I have spent many hours on the telephone doing this.
As stated critique is a two way thing, comment on others work and you will gain, even if people disagree with your comments you will learn how others are percieving the image, also remember that a 'mediocre' image may have benn taken in extremely difficult circumstances and may be the best that could be obtained, and therefore should deserve some credit for this.
Often I will just fly through the posted images without commenting (pressure of work) and then come back much later to comment to find my nits already covered...
My view... I am happy to read any comments made on my images no matter how good or bad they are, I may not agree, but it gives me another perspective as to how others view my work and at the same time I will comment on as many images as I can time permitting.
BTW John... as a professional I don't believe I have used the forum to promote my services
The thing about this site is the images are of a very high standard and the photographers are of a very high standard too, and I as a lesser skilled photographer benefit greatly from being involved with these types of people on the forum.
I work very hard to get any half decent images (huge lack of time) and as a paying member post images that I sometimes know aren't of the highest quality, but that I consider acceptable for viewing and critiquing. If I didn't post these half decent images, I wouldn't post anything at all and I get a lot of enjoyment and benefit hugely by receiving what I consider extrememly helpful feedback.
Some people haven't time to give a full critique, but from time to time when they do, it's incredibly helpful. I know you're not having a bash at people on here, but thought I would just add my feelings on this subject. This is one of the best sites I have come across and that I consider there's none better to learn on.
regards
Graeme(very late for work now!!)
On the one hand there are some very good shots on this site and some good information too. I am by no means a fantastic photographer, in fact I'm very new to the whole thing compared to many of you and this year has probably been my most photographic and accomplished to date. There is a LOT for me to learn still and this site has helped me improve and has also given me goals to aim for as I strive to get the quality of shots some of you manage on a regular basis. I always enjoy looking at the site as I know I'm always going to be seeing something impressive - the standard here really is very high but then there are a lot of people who earn a living from their work here so thats no surprise.
I spent a long time reading this forum before I joined, several months at least and I was unsure if I should join or not because of the nit picking that pops up. I mean if there is a blown highlight or a strong colour cast or a twig across the main subject then sure, its worth a mention. But the 'contsructive' comments seem to go beyond the useful and noteworthy sometimes. I also felt that (and still do to an extent) sometimes images get a more favoured response because of who has posted it. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that certain members are gauranteed positive comments but just that sometimes an image seems to get more glowing critiques than maybe it should. Or maybe its just some people are more in the 'in crowd' as such and so the criticism is worded in a much more friendly and indirect way than it would be for someone else.
Obviously this is all very subjective as everyone likes different things, its just thats these are the thoughts that have always sprung to my mind when viewing this forum. Of course I joined anyway as what matters most is the passion we share for photography and I wanted to contribute to that and because lots of feedback IS good and DOES make sense and WILL help me (or anyone, this isn't just about me - as I said above I have thought this since before I joined) improve.
I get the feeling I'm in the minority with my thoughts that there can be a lot of needless nit picking on this site and thats fine. Will I leave the site because of it? No, of course not, that would be a stupid thing to do. I want to learn how to improve my composition, how to get closer to my subjects undetected, how to learn proper long lens technique and how to one day be good enough to maybe sell work on a semi regular basis. 'The background is too busy, try using a smaller DoF to blur it out more' 'try getting lower to the ground next time for a more personal feel' 'try tweaking the colour balance a tad to bring out the greens' etc etc are all very useful things to be mentioned. I just don't see how someone out there can think that mentioning a 7 pixel high bit of grass needs to be cloned out because its facing the wrong way is being helpful, when its the only thing they say about the picture. Its not helping the person who took the shot and its not helping the members that are reading the comments in the hope of learning from them.
Thats obviously an example I made up, but its the way the site can feel at times when reading peoples comments on one anothers work and its a feeling that not one other photography website gives me, just this one. Of course I still come back for more and thats because on the whole UKNP is so helpful and inspiring. I just feel the quality of the comments made sometimes fall short of the images they go with.
Personally, I learn from any posting, good or mediocre, as I find virtually all the critique very useful. Don't forget that we don't necessarily post all our best images here either, in fact, if I'm ever uncertain about an image, I know that I will soon have my mind made up after posting it here.
I know that it has already been mentioned, but if you really want in depth critique, then add all the techs, give as much info as possible, and ask the good people here what they think!
Best wishes
Phil
Overall I think picture posters in the forum need to be more progressive (too many people are trying to mimic the "standard" nature photography style rather than explore their own creativity) and less conventional. Come on, lets really try to push the envelope in here guys and gals.
A
One of the things I've noticed on any photo forum is that relative newcomers tend to pick up very quickly what the other members of the forum like or dislike and they tend to stick with that style for a while. After a year or so of getting praise for pretty average shots (techs may be good but maybe lack in inspiration) folks soon start to explore their own creativity, and normally it is greeted with positive comments. The transition period between copying and creating can sometimes throw up some way out shots that are neither great photographs nor great art and very often they are met with either no comment or negative ones. The poster should not be deterred by negative comments if he/she is trying to expand their horizons, but equally the person criticising the shot should not be castigated for saying what they feel about it.
I think most of us in here are able to take a good technical shot and can recognise good technical aspects of a shot when it is displayed in front of us. What takes a little more time is trying to decypher if the photographer is intentionally being "untechnical" for art's sake or whether he/she doesn't really have a grasp of the artistic or technical side of things in the first place...this is an area where sometimes critique can be judged to be either too harsh or too friendly.
One thing is for certain though, the forum as a whole always seems to be able to debate these issues in a very positive manner, this is something that nearly all other sites are unable to do very well.
Phil,
I never had you in my thoughts when I typed that statement.
John
I know, just kidding.....
Phil