Posted by Larry Corbett on November 13, 2006 at 6:57 PM
It was flying so fast I thought it was a duck so I photographed it can't help the dark u/s, midday sun tried to get the detail to show using shadows/highlights but alas it looked awful.
1d2, 300/2.8LIS + 2xII, f5.6 @ 1/1600 ISO 320
Posted by Phil Shaw on November 14, 2006 at 3:24 AM
Larry, nice capture, but I don't think this is critically sharp on the head and bill. I don't think it's your technique, or the shutter speed, I'm sure it's because you are shooting with the 2x wide open. When I'm using the 2x I always stop down to f11, even with 300/f2.8. In the testing I've done with my 300/2.8, 500/4 and 600/4, only that central part of the converter gives you really crisp images. Don't be afraid to crank up the ISO to compensate.
Agree with Phil here re the 2x, although I find f10 to be the optimum with my 400/2.8, mind that is on a 20D so using less of the edges...
A fine flight shot again, as you say a shame about the midday sun, have you tried adding a levels adjustment layer, change the blend mode to screen, then use the mask to isolate the effect to just the areas needed, you can then change the amount of lightening by changing the opacity?
Posted by Larry Corbett on November 14, 2006 at 3:41 AM
Sorry Phil I have to disagree with you, the 300/2.8 with 2x at f5.6 delivers sharp crisp images across the entire frame period. I've been using this combination for over 10 years and have many many many successful pinsharp images for my troubles, in really good light some of the f5.6 digital images are so sharp as not to even need any sharpening.
I stop down to f8 when shooting small birds but only to allow more DOF as I am so close to the birds.
If i didn't think the 300/2.8+2x was up to the job I wouldn't have sold my £4k 500f4 or my 300f4
Maybe it's your eyes!?
Image looks sharp enough to me, you have to remember that it's only a 140kb image and the area you are talking about is quite small. Maybe I should give it more USM as this one has only been given an amount of 100%. The full 48mb image sharpened to 300% is sharper than a pin. I try not to give too much usm on bird in flight images at high iso's (this is 320) as the noise and the halos can start appearing.
ps..I uploaded too many images to my website last night and seem to have exceeded my uploading quota...now it's gone offline..oops
Posted by Larry Corbett on November 14, 2006 at 3:44 AM
too much technical stuff there for me Phil, I don't think the image is worth all that work, it's only a snap shot really...would rather go back to slimbridge and try again
No problem, It is just that I have found that method works better for me rather than shadow/highlights, good idea about going back and trying again, far better than spending time infront of the computer
All the best
Phil
Posted by Larry Corbett on November 14, 2006 at 3:50 AM
another 50% USM to the 140kb image
How much USM should I apply for web presentation to a 600x400 px image??
Posted by Larry Corbett on November 14, 2006 at 3:51 AM
halo already starting to appear around the wing
Posted by David Kjaer on November 14, 2006 at 3:56 AM
Hi Larry
The image doesn't really work for me, the shadow areas being too dark and I agree with the two Phil's that it lacks critical sharpness. That said I disagree with what they have said about stopping down to f11 to get good results on the 300 f2.8 with the x2 ext. Mine delivers good results wide open and very crisp when you stop down just one stop to f8 - are you guys talking about the 300f2.8 IS because the old 300f2.8 is not optically as good as the IS version. If you do own the IS version I think you may have a bad copy
Typically for web presentation I will resize my original which normally only has PK capture sharpening applied and possibly a small amount of PK creative sharpening. I then sharpen (as per Phil Shaw) 100%, 0.2, 0, fading to luminosity, repeated up to 5 times if needed, you can always step back if it goes too far, I will then set the hirtory brush to the state prior to any sharpening and remove sharpening from the bg and quickly remove any halos that have appeared ( doesn't take long)
HTH
Phil
Posted by Larry Corbett on November 14, 2006 at 4:06 AM
Hi Dave
I now have the 300/2.8LIS + a new 2X II Extender, and its a brilliant copy, maybe I need my eyes tested..ooh ek
Posted by Larry Corbett on November 14, 2006 at 4:08 AM
very helpful Phil i'm sure, but completely over my head..think I will ask the wife for a book on photoshop for my birthday
Posted by Larry Corbett on November 14, 2006 at 5:02 AM
Found this image on my office pc (previously posted) and thought I would repost to illustrate that the 30 with a 2x can deliver the goods across the whole frame when used wide open (f/5.6)
1d2, 300/2.8LIS + 2xII wide open a F/5.6 @ 1/2000, ISO Rating 320.
Posted by Larry Corbett on November 14, 2006 at 7:00 AM
Whilst searching the net for a good article on sharpening I found this article which I have found to be very informative
Posted by Brian McGeough on November 14, 2006 at 8:23 AM
I agree with you too Larry about the 300mm 2.8 and 2x, i think its a great light weight 600mm (compared to the 600mm f/4) and i find it to be very sharp even with my non IS version.
I'm with you on the quality of 300mm L IS and 2x extender.
I think the problem with the image is one of contrast, lighting and insufficient detail captured in the bird. I try not to use my 2x to turn my lens into a 'telescope' to photograph birds that are some way away. I use it when I'm close but just not close enough.
Discussion
15 replies1d2, 300/2.8LIS + 2xII, f5.6 @ 1/1600 ISO 320
A fine flight shot again, as you say a shame about the midday sun, have you tried adding a levels adjustment layer, change the blend mode to screen, then use the mask to isolate the effect to just the areas needed, you can then change the amount of lightening by changing the opacity?
I stop down to f8 when shooting small birds but only to allow more DOF as I am so close to the birds.
If i didn't think the 300/2.8+2x was up to the job I wouldn't have sold my £4k 500f4 or my 300f4
Maybe it's your eyes!?
Image looks sharp enough to me, you have to remember that it's only a 140kb image and the area you are talking about is quite small. Maybe I should give it more USM as this one has only been given an amount of 100%. The full 48mb image sharpened to 300% is sharper than a pin. I try not to give too much usm on bird in flight images at high iso's (this is 320) as the noise and the halos can start appearing.
ps..I uploaded too many images to my website last night and seem to have exceeded my uploading quota...now it's gone offline..oops
No problem, It is just that I have found that method works better for me rather than shadow/highlights, good idea about going back and trying again, far better than spending time infront of the computer
All the best
Phil
How much USM should I apply for web presentation to a 600x400 px image??
The image doesn't really work for me, the shadow areas being too dark and I agree with the two Phil's that it lacks critical sharpness. That said I disagree with what they have said about stopping down to f11 to get good results on the 300 f2.8 with the x2 ext. Mine delivers good results wide open and very crisp when you stop down just one stop to f8 - are you guys talking about the 300f2.8 IS because the old 300f2.8 is not optically as good as the IS version. If you do own the IS version I think you may have a bad copy
David
Typically for web presentation I will resize my original which normally only has PK capture sharpening applied and possibly a small amount of PK creative sharpening. I then sharpen (as per Phil Shaw) 100%, 0.2, 0, fading to luminosity, repeated up to 5 times if needed, you can always step back if it goes too far, I will then set the hirtory brush to the state prior to any sharpening and remove sharpening from the bg and quickly remove any halos that have appeared ( doesn't take long)
HTH
Phil
I now have the 300/2.8LIS + a new 2X II Extender, and its a brilliant copy, maybe I need my eyes tested..ooh ek
1d2, 300/2.8LIS + 2xII wide open a F/5.6 @ 1/2000, ISO Rating 320.
http://www.photokaboom.com/photography/learn/processing/sharpening/1a_sharpening_introduction.htm
I'm with you on the quality of 300mm L IS and 2x extender.
I think the problem with the image is one of contrast, lighting and insufficient detail captured in the bird. I try not to use my 2x to turn my lens into a 'telescope' to photograph birds that are some way away. I use it when I'm close but just not close enough.
Cheers
Regards