Posted by Chris Lloyd on November 23, 2006 at 4:33 AM
Hi Everybody,
Thanks for the comments on my last post.
Would anybody be able to offer any advice on typical scenarios when fill in flash would be required as this is still a little bit of a grey area for me. My biggest worry would be blowing the highlights on lighter birds, for example on my woodpecker post the other day, I was toying with using it then decided against it.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks and regards
Chris
www.c-m-l.com
Posted by John Chapman on November 23, 2006 at 4:42 AM
Hi Chris
If I use flash I use 1 stop less than the camera settings.
Posted by Elliott Neep on November 23, 2006 at 6:08 AM
Hi Chris,
I'm certainly no expert and I think this is possibly the 'greyist' area in photography. It is so vague because lighting situations can be so different, the subjects are at different distances, it also depends on the subject and the extent of fill-in. I think it calls for a fluid approach rather than a rigid rule. Generally I set the flash to -2 stops or I use a Stofen which reduces output by a factor of 2. I take a couple of shots, chimp a little then reassess. Sometimes I use just enough flash just to get a catchlight.
For dark subjects you will need to reduce this further as the metering will want to really lighten the subject and vice versa for white birds. I found that if I want to fill-in on a swan that is close to the camera I only need reduce the flash by 1 stop if at all. Other white birds such as gulls are not a problem as there is always sufficient blue sky or background to balance the metering.
I think the only risk of blowing out with fill-in flash would be if a small, white, backlit subject is in a very dark background. The metering might over-compensate for the background. If you are mindful of the background though and adjust the flash exposure compensation accordingly, you should be fine.
The best advice I can give is just to practice really. It can take a long time to master this (if anyone ever really does!?). It may sounds a bit idiotic but when I was trying to learn about suitable flash levels I practiced on a collection of fluffy toys which resembled actual animals.
Posted by stuart scott on November 23, 2006 at 6:40 AM
Try looking back to May, June, July 2003 in the articles section of NPN Home.
Theres 3 very useful articles by Joe and Mary Ann McDonald...... Flash Primer.
ta
stu
Posted by Phil Shaw on November 23, 2006 at 9:26 AM
What make and model camera and flash are you using? It is almost completely impossible to give you useful advice without this information.
Posted by Chris Lloyd on November 23, 2006 at 10:45 AM
Hi Phil,
I am using Nikon D2X and the SB600 speedlight.
regards Chris.
Posted by SteveHL on November 23, 2006 at 12:29 PM
Hi Chris
If you take Elliots advice and practice on some fuffy toys try getting toys with glass eyes as this should help in resect of catchlights.
Cheers
Steve HL
Posted by writepic on November 23, 2006 at 4:25 PM
good topic, this is something i've learn't more about being underwater than i had previously from being on land, but i guess it's all the same. try playing around a lot (love the fluffy toy idea), especially with different backgrounds and at different light levels, especially try metering the background using a sopt reading and offsetting the flash by under-rating and do bracket settings on the same subject by resetting the flash-rating dropping it 1/3 a stop each frame.
this is the great thing about digital photography, such experimenting doesn't cost a thing, and all the info is stored in the file data so you can keep track of what you were doing. one warning though, don't just asses your results on the view panel of the camera, actually download the images and do a proper assesment on your monitor as your assesments will be a lot more accurate.
i think mastery of this aspect really is one very important key to good photography.
mark
Posted by Chris Lloyd on November 24, 2006 at 3:27 AM
Hi Everyone,
Thanks very much for all of the tips you have given me. I will certainly try the fluffy toy idea.
Thanks alot
Regards Chris.
www.c-m-l.com
Posted by Phil Shaw on November 25, 2006 at 7:17 AM
DSLRs like the D2x can record approximately 6-stops of light. When the tonal range in the scene exceeds this, and you are setting your exposure for the highlights, the darker tones in the in the image, typically the shadows, will block up. What fill flash allows you to do is to compress the lighting ratio so that it is closer to the range that the camera can record. So if you set your ambient exposure to correctly expose the highlight (ie in Photoshop the brightest pixels are around 250/250/250), you set your flash to bring out the detail in the shadow. Note that we talking about fill flash, here, not balancing the ambient exposure with the flash.
For a primarily medium-toned subject, set the flash to -1⅓ or -1⅔. For a dark subject like a crow, set the flash to -⅔ or -1. For a light-toned subject, set the flash to -2 or -2⅓. These ratios were first worked out by the American photographer, Galen Rowell, and the range in the settings reflects different tastes – slightly more flash or, slightly less flash.
You also have to take into account what exposure mode you are shooting in, and what the exposure mode communicates to the flash. For example, in the Canon system, if the fully automatic Programme mode is selected, the camera is telling the flash that it needs to provide sufficient light to be the primary light source and in Aperture-priority or shutter-speed-priority mode, the camera is telling the flash to calculate the light output needed to balance the ambient light level (the camera defaults to evaluative metering). I think the Nikon system is similar in this respect, or at least it used to be when I used Nikon equipment.
There are many variables at work here, and in auto exposure modes and auto flash modes, there is no clear information about how the programmed algorithms for each interact. My advice, therefore, is shoot in manual exposure mode with the flash in manual mode also in order to minimise reliance upon those things that you cannot control directly.
Alternatively, as I have suggested in these forums before, you can practice using your typical camera setting in your typical shooting location with a couple of soft toys that have different tonal characteristics to work out what settings will work to give you the flash contribution that produces the effect that you want.
Discussion
9 repliesThanks for the comments on my last post.
Would anybody be able to offer any advice on typical scenarios when fill in flash would be required as this is still a little bit of a grey area for me. My biggest worry would be blowing the highlights on lighter birds, for example on my woodpecker post the other day, I was toying with using it then decided against it.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks and regards
Chris
www.c-m-l.com
If I use flash I use 1 stop less than the camera settings.
I'm certainly no expert and I think this is possibly the 'greyist' area in photography. It is so vague because lighting situations can be so different, the subjects are at different distances, it also depends on the subject and the extent of fill-in. I think it calls for a fluid approach rather than a rigid rule. Generally I set the flash to -2 stops or I use a Stofen which reduces output by a factor of 2. I take a couple of shots, chimp a little then reassess. Sometimes I use just enough flash just to get a catchlight.
For dark subjects you will need to reduce this further as the metering will want to really lighten the subject and vice versa for white birds. I found that if I want to fill-in on a swan that is close to the camera I only need reduce the flash by 1 stop if at all. Other white birds such as gulls are not a problem as there is always sufficient blue sky or background to balance the metering.
I think the only risk of blowing out with fill-in flash would be if a small, white, backlit subject is in a very dark background. The metering might over-compensate for the background. If you are mindful of the background though and adjust the flash exposure compensation accordingly, you should be fine.
The best advice I can give is just to practice really. It can take a long time to master this (if anyone ever really does!?). It may sounds a bit idiotic but when I was trying to learn about suitable flash levels I practiced on a collection of fluffy toys which resembled actual animals.
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html
Theres 3 very useful articles by Joe and Mary Ann McDonald...... Flash Primer.
ta
stu
I am using Nikon D2X and the SB600 speedlight.
regards Chris.
If you take Elliots advice and practice on some fuffy toys try getting toys with glass eyes as this should help in resect of catchlights.
Cheers
Steve HL
good topic, this is something i've learn't more about being underwater than i had previously from being on land, but i guess it's all the same. try playing around a lot (love the fluffy toy idea), especially with different backgrounds and at different light levels, especially try metering the background using a sopt reading and offsetting the flash by under-rating and do bracket settings on the same subject by resetting the flash-rating dropping it 1/3 a stop each frame.
this is the great thing about digital photography, such experimenting doesn't cost a thing, and all the info is stored in the file data so you can keep track of what you were doing. one warning though, don't just asses your results on the view panel of the camera, actually download the images and do a proper assesment on your monitor as your assesments will be a lot more accurate.
i think mastery of this aspect really is one very important key to good photography.
mark
Thanks very much for all of the tips you have given me. I will certainly try the fluffy toy idea.
Thanks alot
Regards Chris.
www.c-m-l.com
For a primarily medium-toned subject, set the flash to -1⅓ or -1⅔. For a dark subject like a crow, set the flash to -⅔ or -1. For a light-toned subject, set the flash to -2 or -2⅓. These ratios were first worked out by the American photographer, Galen Rowell, and the range in the settings reflects different tastes – slightly more flash or, slightly less flash.
You also have to take into account what exposure mode you are shooting in, and what the exposure mode communicates to the flash. For example, in the Canon system, if the fully automatic Programme mode is selected, the camera is telling the flash that it needs to provide sufficient light to be the primary light source and in Aperture-priority or shutter-speed-priority mode, the camera is telling the flash to calculate the light output needed to balance the ambient light level (the camera defaults to evaluative metering). I think the Nikon system is similar in this respect, or at least it used to be when I used Nikon equipment.
There are many variables at work here, and in auto exposure modes and auto flash modes, there is no clear information about how the programmed algorithms for each interact. My advice, therefore, is shoot in manual exposure mode with the flash in manual mode also in order to minimise reliance upon those things that you cannot control directly.
Alternatively, as I have suggested in these forums before, you can practice using your typical camera setting in your typical shooting location with a couple of soft toys that have different tonal characteristics to work out what settings will work to give you the flash contribution that produces the effect that you want.