Members' Choice

Should we have a Members' Choice Gallery where members can nominate the images they think is worthy of "best of the week"? It would be interesting to see how it would compare with the Moderator's Picks. Something to think about.

Thanks for your replies

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

I guess I don't see the point, Will. Members choice seems evident through the images with highest number of views/highest number of comments. Moreover, I think it will put viewers at odd with the Moderators (who make the picks) when the choices don't align (which would surely happen frequently).

Michael, it is obvious that Moderators do not make the picks through highest number of views and comments. I do not think members would do so either. Nevertheless, thinking this through further, who would shoulder the task of sorting through all the nominations put forth by the members? So perhaps it is not such a great idea. Can a moderator select an image from another moderator for consideration? Or are moderators inelligible?

Thanks for the input.

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

Yes, members' choices do seem somewhat evident from the number of comments collected, but sometimes a lot of comments come from the person posting the image making responses or from a conversation sparked by an unusual image. Regardless of where the comments come from, however, at least viewers can usually understand why an image receives lots of comments simply by reading the comments and seeing with their own eye what people think or are talking about.

With moderator's picks, however, no one knows where they come from, except the moderator/picker, of course. No comments are offered as to why an image becomes a moderator's pick, what images were considered, or even the process--is it consensus decision or do the moderator's rotate the picking?

I love the NPN community because of the openness and free flow of ideas, but in many ways moderator picks are the antithesis of this. There's Jim's weekly list of who got them, a brief congratulatory note, and not much else. As such, I'd be inclined to trust the collective wisdom of the community members and do feel their picks would be at least as valid as those of the moderators.

Will, moderators and NPN staff (everyone listed on the homepage masthead) are not eligible for picks. Neither are non-members.

I don't mind member picks in principle but I'm worried that in the long run it may make NPN more of a competitive/clique'ish society as is evident in other sites, rather than one geared towards mutual critique and learning.

Guy

I tend to agree with you, Guy. For a revised idea, I believe if I flag the images I feel is worthy of consideration and choose from that list for what I think is the best of the week, I have made a Personal Choice. In essence Member's Choice is a collection of Personal Choices. Personal Choices would remain just that and do not need to be announced to the world. Making Personal Choices I think helps in the process of becoming a better photographer too because you study the works with greater intensity and you see better why the image works so well.

My choice would be at least as valid as the Moderator's Picks without coming into conflict or competition with them. In fact, I think I would show progress if I consistently agree with the Moderator's Picks.

Thanks for the replies.

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

Will: I feel the moderator's picks in the critique forums are generally on target. It must be extremely difficult to choose from the many quality images posted for critiquing.

My only suggestion would be that they not know who posted the image so there would be a more even playing field for all... and honestly I don't know how that can be done. If the NPN members did the picking it could quickly become a popularity contest because each post has the maker's name.

As far as the number of views, in many cases the images that can be seen clearly without enlarging do not get as many "hits" as those that are dark or unclear as to their subject. Even those not posted correctly and don't show the image at all must get a hit to be viewed.

In summary, I vote for keeping the critque forums working as they are now.

I really like the non - competative exchange of ideas and techniques in place here, and don't want to compromise it. If people wished for an outlet of superlatives and competition, there are venues both on the net and in print for such a photographic environment.

Often times I like posting shots that I have questions about to get meaningful feedback on, a different mindset from posting images to 'WIN' every week. When I have been selected, I've been honored, but it's not my goal at this well run site!

Please understand that I made the suggestion of Member's Choice as a compliment to the Moderators Picks; not as competition between the two. And it also fosters more involvement in the community too. Still, I agree to leave things as is.

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

The difficulty in a "members' pick" is somewhat an administrative one - how would we set it up? Most of us (including me) abhor a "voting system" for the reasons stated above, and it seems the only way to make it happen without creating a boatload of extra work.

What if we did away with the picks altogether?

Just because a photo has a lot of comments/views may not mean it's a good one. Sometimes people may be thinking, "They posted THAT?"


Kent in SD

Another thing to keep in mind is that Mod. Picks are purely arbitrary (the Moderator likes Image X the greatest, and this is totally a subjective/personal taste thing). There needn't be any logic behind it, and the chosen image may very well rank as the lowest possible choice with the general populus. Mod. Picks is NOT a popularity contest, where as I believe Members Choice would be. Moderators have posted their reasons (in the GD forum) for choosing on occasion, but this is not something done weekly.

Jim, the boatload of extra work is what made me think twice about all this. And we are talking about a Titanic boatload

Do away with the picks altogether? Perish the thought. The Moderators Picks adds a prestigious element to the NPN community. I think we all strive for the honor of being selected and is something to aim for.

Michael, you are right in saying, in effect, that Members' Choice can be translated as Popular Picks. The only thing is that it is possible we can all choose a different image so we have a lot of nominations and no final selection. I think I will go with the Personal Picks idea and see how it compares with the Moderators Picks. Noone needs to know who "won" and I feel it helps me improve in the process.

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

I really like the EP's just as they are now. I certainly don't always agree with the picks, but I'll never complain either because I surely wouldn't want the job of picking ONE image out of the many excellent images posted. Plus, I know beyond a doubt the people who do make the choices are a zillion times more knowledgable and proficient than I will probably ever be. Photography is so subjective that I doubt there is seldom, if ever, a definitve choice that everyone would agree on, so to the guys and gals who are currently making those very difficult decisions - hats off to you! You have a totally thankless, nearly impossible job. For that, y'all get paid the big bucks.

Bill, speaking of the job of picking ONE I did just that a few hours ago. I decided to see if I can pick the Moderators Pick from last week. I chose the Avian Gallery. I did not know before which one was picked. So I went through all the images and flagged the ones I liked starting with Nov 26 and going back in time. By the time I reached November 19 I had flagged 65 photos. Whew! And then came the next phase of picking the top 25 from those. Finally I narrowed it down to seven. The actual winner was among the top three I had chosen. So I know at least a little how much goes into deciding the picks.

Totally thankless? Let's not make it so. I for one feel grateful for the dedicated work of our moderators.

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

Hi Jim,
I quite like the existing system of EPs. Generally I follow only the avian forum and have found that you, Garth and Bob have a significant challenge many weeks in selecting one image but you do it all the same. Some weeks I'm particularly glad I don't have to make the decision.

I agree with Will about the EPs adding a prestigious element to NPN as well. It's a bit of recognition for a particularly well done image that stands out amoungst a large number of other excellent images. Seems to me it's a fun and friendly activity that gives us all a little something extra to strive for if and when we want to. Keep the EPs IMO.

Plus, I know beyond a doubt the people who do make the choices are a zillion times more knowledgable and proficient than I will probably ever be.

That's nonsense, Bill. As you elaborated in your following sentence, it's purely subjective. My photographic knowledge and proficiency is no more qualified than yours to make a Moderators Pick. In the end, we all just pick what we like (no different than how we choose the photographs we hang on our walls).

I will do my very best in the future to articulate my reasons for my picks.

I for one feel grateful for the dedicated work of our moderators.

I'll second that!

Judging of art is subjective; learned that by submitting work to shows/exhibitions. I joined NPN and post in the critique galleries for lots of reasons, only one of which is to try and select one I think might deserve an EP. An award system does add prestige to the site as well as one's resume (when that's important). And I like to know how my work "measures up." I am so glad it is not carried to the extreme, here, though. I think then the "competition" factor becomes more intimidating to those of us wanting to post in the galleries for honest critiques. The moderators do a wonderful job. What if they did say why the one was picked over the many others of such high quality? It's an opinion at that time. Kinda like a dog or horse show: which animal compares to a "standard" and has that extra litlle something that catches the judges eye that time wins the prize. Next month, with the same dogs/horses, same judge, a different one might win because that's the one with the extra something at that time. The difference with photography is, I think each judge has a "standard" of what makes a good photo that may or may not be anything like what the artist was trying to do with the posted photo. So.... no EP maybe, but alot of valuable feedback from viewers about whether the goal of that photo was met and what could be done (or not done!) to perhaps better achieve the goal the next time or a "vote" from viewers that the photo is alright as is, met the goal the photographer wants advice on and/or is a great photograph.
Okay, that boils down to agreeing with those who like things the way they are, and please don't change it.

Catherine, I like things the way they are too. I meant for the Members' Choice to be a seperate Gallery from the Moderators' Picks (EP) but the idea is just not going to work and I accept that.

I whole heartedly agree the moderators do a wonderful job. I am curious at times which ones were "runners-ups" but very likely they would be the very ones I would have picked

Thanks for your reply.

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

I am curious at times which ones were "runners-ups"......

Will: back when it was Editor's Pick, three photographs were submitted to Jim, and only one was picked. The other two *could* have been considered runner-up's, but only in an unofficial sense. Now that it is Moderator's Pick, we each pick our TOP choice - there really are no unofficial runner-up's under the current system (at least not the way I draw my top-pick).