Posted by Rich Long on December 19, 2006 at 3:29 PM
Most of you know more about this stuff than I do; maybe you can help me out. If you read through this whole thing, give yourself a star.
I was asked to make a very large print of a photo from an existing scan. I took the image on CD to the Slide Printer (sorry, Brent) and asked them how big they could print the image while maintaining reasonable quality. After a quick look at the file, they told me that it would still look good at 30x40. I was skeptical.
They offered to print a test strip to show me what the quality would look like at that size. This morning, I went in to look at the test strip. To my surprise, it looks good enough. So I told them to go ahead with a 30x40 print. Sounds good so far, right?
I got back to the office and looked at the test strip again, with ruler in hand. It's 30 inches long and shows the entire width of the photo. Since the width is the long dimension (landscape orientation), I expected that either the strip would be 40 inches long, or that the 30-inch strip would show three-fourths of photo's width. Not so.
I called SP to verify what I was looking at. I explained that the strip is 30 inches wide and shows the entire width. I said that I didn't want to blow it up another 33 percent in order to get to a 30x40 photo.
The response was confusing. SP says that the quality I am looking at is what I will get in a 30x40 print, because the strip is 'magnified'. I asked them how that can be if I'm looking at the whole width in a smaller size. The response made no sense to me, and I kept asking questions. The lady on the phone was getting angry, so I told her that I'm still confused but will take her word that my 30x40 print will be the same quality as the 30-inch test strip.
Right now, I'm fully expecting that the 30x40 print will be much softer with more visible grain than the test strip I'm looking at. If it is, I will refuse to accept the print and another argument will ensue. But I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Please tell me why I'm wrong and how SP will give me a 40-inch print that matches the quality of a 30-inch test strip. I want to be wrong.
Posted by Rene Pirolt on December 19, 2006 at 4:11 PM
Rich - sounds like you are right and they are wrong, confused, and/or CTA!
The reason you got a 30" strip is because the Chromira they have is a 30"wide machine. If they had to make you a 40" strip, they would have to print along the length of the roll, which would require a lot of wasted paper.
What they should have done is provide you with a 30" strip of the width of your image. Sound like the lady you talked to didn’t know what she was saying.
Yes, they will need to blow up the image further to give you a 30"x40", causing additional degradation of what you already see.
I would request a 30" strip of the entire width of the image before they print.
Good Luck!!!!
Posted by Grant Collier on December 19, 2006 at 4:29 PM
Sounds like you may have talked to the new employee, who doesn't seem as knowledgeable or as polite. It may be better to ask to talk to her manager.
Posted by Brent Murphy on December 19, 2006 at 4:47 PM
I agree with everyone above.
Posted by Jody Grigg on December 19, 2006 at 7:36 PM
Rich, just curious what size and dpi is your original scan?
Posted by Rick Dunn on December 19, 2006 at 10:28 PM
Oh, it makes sense to me. They're going to stretch the height to 40" and compress the width to 30", then rotate 90 degrees....
If the full width of the neg is reflected in the 30" strip, they're smokin' egg-nog. When/if you pay, you should give them a $20 and tell them it's really a $50, magnified...
Posted by Rich Long on December 19, 2006 at 10:29 PM
Thanks for the input, everyone. So maybe I'm not as nuts as they think I am. I'll go back tomorrow with the test strip and see if we can't get it straightened out. I don't want them to produce work that I'll be unhappy with, and I'm sure they don't want to produce work that I'm not going to pay for.
Darren, the test strip was $5, and would be fine if represented the final image size. It's about 4 inches wide.
Renee, that does clear up one point I didn't understand. She told me that they couldn't make a 40-inch strip. I asked how they could make a 40-inch print then, but we were talking past each other by that point and I never did figure it out. Thanks for the clarification.
Jody, the scan is a 67 meg file from a 645 MF transparency. As I recall, I calculated that a 30x40 print would be about 150 dpi, based on the scan resolution. Hence my skepticism when they told me it would still look good. I expected that 20x24 would be about the max. Based on the test strip, I think a 24x30 would be acceptable. Not razor-sharp, but acceptable to hang in a reception area to be viewed from 6 feet away.
In addition to the comments above, I'd also like to point out an additional implication relating to Rene's comment. He's right - their Chromira will only print to 30" wide. This means that your 30"x40" image will be printed to the edge of the paper. If you or your client is going to mat and frame the image, you're going to end up losing some of it.
So... If the image will be displayed matted and framed (as opposed to laminated and mounted, for example), you might want to consider having it printed by someone who has a large enough printer to leave a bit of a border around the image.
Just a thought,
Posted by Rich Long on December 19, 2006 at 10:36 PM
Once again, Rick immediately distills the problem and produces a clear solution. (Water quality pun intended.) Thanks, Rick!!
CAZ, with a 30x40 I was going to have it mounted on gatorboard, no border, and laminated. If I go 24x30, I'll have a border added and skip the lamination. I'll need to mat and frame it to cover up at least 36" of wall space.
Posted by Roger Rouch on December 19, 2006 at 10:59 PM
Pardon my comments as a techo slowbee, but for such a large print would it make sense for a scan at a higher resolution? I've used the Imagerylab for economical high resolution 100-200mb scans of my 645 images, though I've never printed that large.
Discussion
9 repliesI was asked to make a very large print of a photo from an existing scan. I took the image on CD to the Slide Printer (sorry, Brent) and asked them how big they could print the image while maintaining reasonable quality. After a quick look at the file, they told me that it would still look good at 30x40. I was skeptical.
They offered to print a test strip to show me what the quality would look like at that size. This morning, I went in to look at the test strip. To my surprise, it looks good enough. So I told them to go ahead with a 30x40 print. Sounds good so far, right?
I got back to the office and looked at the test strip again, with ruler in hand. It's 30 inches long and shows the entire width of the photo. Since the width is the long dimension (landscape orientation), I expected that either the strip would be 40 inches long, or that the 30-inch strip would show three-fourths of photo's width. Not so.
I called SP to verify what I was looking at. I explained that the strip is 30 inches wide and shows the entire width. I said that I didn't want to blow it up another 33 percent in order to get to a 30x40 photo.
The response was confusing. SP says that the quality I am looking at is what I will get in a 30x40 print, because the strip is 'magnified'. I asked them how that can be if I'm looking at the whole width in a smaller size. The response made no sense to me, and I kept asking questions. The lady on the phone was getting angry, so I told her that I'm still confused but will take her word that my 30x40 print will be the same quality as the 30-inch test strip.
Right now, I'm fully expecting that the 30x40 print will be much softer with more visible grain than the test strip I'm looking at. If it is, I will refuse to accept the print and another argument will ensue. But I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Please tell me why I'm wrong and how SP will give me a 40-inch print that matches the quality of a 30-inch test strip. I want to be wrong.
The reason you got a 30" strip is because the Chromira they have is a 30"wide machine. If they had to make you a 40" strip, they would have to print along the length of the roll, which would require a lot of wasted paper.
What they should have done is provide you with a 30" strip of the width of your image. Sound like the lady you talked to didn’t know what she was saying.
Yes, they will need to blow up the image further to give you a 30"x40", causing additional degradation of what you already see.
I would request a 30" strip of the entire width of the image before they print.
Good Luck!!!!
If the full width of the neg is reflected in the 30" strip, they're smokin' egg-nog. When/if you pay, you should give them a $20 and tell them it's really a $50, magnified...
Darren, the test strip was $5, and would be fine if represented the final image size. It's about 4 inches wide.
Renee, that does clear up one point I didn't understand. She told me that they couldn't make a 40-inch strip. I asked how they could make a 40-inch print then, but we were talking past each other by that point and I never did figure it out. Thanks for the clarification.
Jody, the scan is a 67 meg file from a 645 MF transparency. As I recall, I calculated that a 30x40 print would be about 150 dpi, based on the scan resolution. Hence my skepticism when they told me it would still look good. I expected that 20x24 would be about the max. Based on the test strip, I think a 24x30 would be acceptable. Not razor-sharp, but acceptable to hang in a reception area to be viewed from 6 feet away.
Thanks again, gentlemen.
In addition to the comments above, I'd also like to point out an additional implication relating to Rene's comment. He's right - their Chromira will only print to 30" wide. This means that your 30"x40" image will be printed to the edge of the paper. If you or your client is going to mat and frame the image, you're going to end up losing some of it.
So... If the image will be displayed matted and framed (as opposed to laminated and mounted, for example), you might want to consider having it printed by someone who has a large enough printer to leave a bit of a border around the image.
Just a thought,
CAZ, with a 30x40 I was going to have it mounted on gatorboard, no border, and laminated. If I go 24x30, I'll have a border added and skip the lamination. I'll need to mat and frame it to cover up at least 36" of wall space.