Japanese Garden Policy Clarification

I have had an email exchange with Kerry Cobb, Director of Marketing and Communications at the Japanese Garden. He very graciously cleared up the confusion surrounding their new policy. With this clarification, I, for one fully support their move. With Kerry's permission, I'm including the pertinent excerpts of our exchange:

Prior to January 1, 2007, the Garden’s policy has been for any photographer planning to sell their images or use them for promotional purposes to make a reservation with the Director of Operations at least two weeks in advance and pay $225 for two hours of shooting in the Garden. We felt this policy did not allow much spontaneity for photographers, it was difficult for Garden staff to manage, it was expensive, and many photographers did not understand or follow the policy.

We decided we needed a clearer policy that would benefit both the Garden and photographers. Part of our process included research on how other gardens and attractions handle their photo policies. What we found was that most are very strict about photo use (needing to obtain permission for all sales and use of photos), many are quite expensive (charging anywhere from $100-$500 per hour), and some don’t allow photography at all. We also asked several local professional and amateur photographers for input and suggestions.

What we wanted to do was make it a positive experience for photographers, charging less than our previous policy and giving photographers more of what they ask for, including early morning and late-evening photographer-only hours, unlimited sales of their images (we are only asking for photo credit), and a way to show their art at the Garden (thus, our juried Photography Art Show and Sale that will happen right before Christmas).

In addition, we are offering an upgrade to the Photographer Membership for $50 for our current members if done by 3/31/07.

By moving from a policy of $225 for two hours to $150 for a year, we have significantly lowered our photo prices while expanding photographer privileges and adding benefits that were not previously available. The response to our Photographer Membership policy has been highly positive from both professional and amateur photographers.

With respect to the image sales information, this should clarify the policy:

…let me respond to your question about image use. You have received some incorrect information that I am hoping can be cleared up here. We do not intend to monitor image use from the past or the future. If a photographer took photos prior to 2007 and didn’t follow the policy that was in effect then (prior approval and a $225 fee for a 4-hour shoot) and he or she has been successful selling those images, then we would hope they would consider giving a donation to the Garden. (In fact, we have a few photographers that make a donation every time they sell an image of the Garden.) If someone joins this year only, takes photos and sells them 10 years from now when they are not a member, then again I would hope they would think of the Garden and perhaps make a donation. If someone signs the waiver and turns around and sells the photos, then if we find out we would ask them to join. Ultimately, however the images belong to the photographer and we just have to hope they use those images fairly and appropriately. We know that some will and some won’t. We do not intend to monitor or police any of this (except to ask for photo credit when we see our image used without credit).

We are a small non-profit simply trying to manage the image we work so hard to protect. The Photographer Membership is our way of offering photographers some special privileges, lowering costs, and keeping a modicum of control over the image of the Garden. Again, we’re not going to try to control all uses of our image—that would be impossible. We can only hope to control what happens here at the Garden.

I think this is an excellent way for the garden to engage the photographer community. As Phil Kuglin noted, the cost of a photography membership can easily be made up with one print sale. Supporting this wonderful non-profit group and garden by signing up for the new membership is a small price to pay for the enhanced offering.

Mr. Cobb wanted to let you all know that he is open to any emails or calls from this group regarding the policy. His contact info is listed below:

Kerry Cobb
Director of Marketing and Communications
Japanese Garden
503-328-0050
kcobb@japanesegarden.com


Cheers,

Supporting this wonderful non-profit group and garden by signing up for the new membership is a small price to pay for the enhanced offering.

David, I couldn't agree more. I think the extra money is well worth the early/late entry access and is a small price to pay to support the Garden. I also seems they are being very reasonable about this.

Excellent news because I think there are many opts there - much more that just that tree

Well, this sounds a lot better than what I understood from my conversation with Mr Cobb. I was told that we would need to be a member for every year we tried to sell that image, and that for the past publications...well, that they would be decided upon on a case by case basis.

Still, this wording sounds much more pleasing.

This certainly makes me inclined to support them. I'll be seriously considering a membership. Thanks for sharing the info David!

I still won't photograph there. Well let me say I would possibly if I wasn't a nature photographer.

Good to hear, Dave, and I'm personally still on the fence about the photo membership just because I didn't go that much last year, and with a new baby the end of this month, probably not this year also.

I was hoping to post the new policy objectively, but maybe I should have "sat" on it a while before typing:\

They must still be mudding through all the details of the new policy. What Rick talked about with having to be a member every year if you plan to sell an image was pretty much what I was told, too. A donation from the sale is a different story entirely.

I posted this "Q" in my thread but I'll post it here, too, is everyone selling images at $150 PROFIT and up (not including cost of print & frame)??? I'm not:( Please give details on how/where you do this

Q2: wouldn't it also serve in the interest of the garden, & for us small-timers, to resolve to also pay a percent of each sale? That may be hard to police, but at least you could expand the policies. What I mean is the photo membership gives you the expanded priveledges of extended shooting hours, the garden show, etc, but for someone like me who last year made it out twice and may sell a picture years from now, continue with the family membership and donate a portion of whatever sale I make? The biggest reason we signed up for a membership was to bring in family when they were in town. The PM allows you one guest for one person, so that I could bring in my wife as a guest, but not her visiting family. The family membership allowed me+my wife+one guest each. I like the gardens, but it's starting to go way up that I have to weigh whether or not I'll use it enough. I guess I want the best of both worlds, photo priveledges and guest priveledges:(

Kevin

I am going back and forth too on this, but I think that I will probably still join. This last year, I got into senior portraits. I just about swallowed my tongue when the shooting fee in the garden cost exactly what I was charging the kids. If I am to do more of that next year...which I probably will because it was kinda fun...it would make much better sense now to simply pay the yearly $150 and be able to take multiple sittings there...unless they still have a seperate rule for portrait photography.

It appears I did not talk to Ms. Cobb on the phone, but was someone else. My apologies for that mistake.

I for one, have sold none of my few images of the gardens. Perhaps because they simply suck ...or that they are so commonplace now (I figure it's the first one). One can look at nearly every photo booth at the Portland Saturday Market and see an image there of the gardens for somewhere between $20 and $100. I will probably just try to sell big prints of the gardens for $500 or $600 a pop to people with poor eyesight

The gardens are a beautiful (although manmade) and part of Portland's historic ambiance. $150 is still not easy for everybody, especially the folks like Kevin and I. Especially since some of the galleries I'm in charge me 50%.

Commonplace...

Here's a link to the New Photography Membership info and benefits. It may help answer some of your questions regarding guests as well as portraiture....

http://www.japanesegarden.com/photography/membership.shtml

Cheers,
David

So after reading their website (see http://www.japanesegarden.com/photography/) and David's post, it looks like:

1. In order to comply with their rules, you need to be a current member in order to make a sale (or otherwise use a photo of the garden commercially)
2. They admit that they can’t enforce the rules and invite you to make a donation if you find yourself in violation of the rules
3. They insist you give the garden credit in your photos
4. They reserve the right to use your photos (presumably without payment) for purposes of promoting the garden
5. These rules have changed; they used to be more strict

It sounds to me like they’re providing a valuable service and they’re really just trying to recap a fair share of profits earned from their hard work. (They’re non-profit so presumably the money they charge will go back into maintenance of the garden in some way.) It also sounds like they may not understand what sort of profit some of you expect from photos taken at the garden. Based on the verbiage on their website, I can imagine some portrait photographers may use the garden often and use images of the garden to promote their business.

Boy, I’m glad I’m not trying to make photography a business thing. If I were (and I was interested in using the garden as part of that business), I’d have a real moral (and possibly legal) dilemma if I wanted to sell prints of the garden.

If I were in Kevin or Rick’s position, I’d write the director with something to this effect:

Dear Mr. Cobb:

I live in the Portland area and I enjoy visiting your Japanese Garden from time to time (as a member/as a guest of a member).

It has come to my attention that you require a photographer membership for commercial use of images of the garden. I am not able to determine by reading your website if that requires me to be a member of the Garden at the time I took the photograph or at the time I make the sale. An acquaintance of mine said he contacted you about this and the impression I got from him was that you require membership at the time of the sale. However, I would appreciate your clarification on this point. (You also might want to explain this more clearly on your website to avoid confusion.)

I am in the process of establishing my business and I am afraid I cannot expect enough sales of photographs of the garden to justify a membership on an ongoing basis. It is also difficult for me to update my website, clear inventory, and otherwise ensure that I do not offer photographs of the Garden for sale depending on my membership status with the Garden. My acquaintance also suggested that you do not intend to enforce this policy and that perhaps you would accept a donation if I found myself in violation of this. While I can appreciate the difficulty you would have monitoring this sort of thing, I would not feel honest taking advantage of this. I wonder if we can formalize this arrangement so that I can operate my business ethically, the Garden can take a fair share of any sales I am lucky enough to make, and I will avoid hardship managing what content I offer for sale.

My proposal is to offer the Garden 25% of my profit (print sale price less taxes and print, framing, and gallery costs) for each sale I make in a year I am not a member, up to 150% of the cost of an annual photographer membership for that year. The values 25% and 150% sound fair to me, but I would welcome your input if you disagree. If this is acceptable to you, I would appreciate if I could make the details of this arrangement available to potential customers so that they will be aware that they are helping to support the Garden by buying my prints.

I will understand you cannot negotiate arrangements like this with individual photographers. I would add, however, that there are likely to be a number of other photographers in a similar position. $150 per year may be a reasonable price for more established photographers, but with my low volume of sales I just cannot justify it. If we cannot come to an agreement here, I will look forward to enjoying the Garden as “non-professional” photographer.

Thank you for your consideration,
(Your name here)

You’ll obviously want to tweak the details here to match how you really feel and what you consider fair. Anyway, you get the picture. Be polite, be honest, give some consideration to what their position might be, explain your position, and hope for the best.

Rick, if you want to shoot senior portraits, you'll want to read that section carefully on their website.

Good Luck,
Sean

Sean,

I did email them something to the effect that you mentioned here (I said 20% or around that to kick back for each sale & giving up the photography membership benefits), and it basically was a "we'll consider it in the future" kind of response. If you would like the actual email, email me and I'll ask if it can be forwarded to you or the forum.

I think, ultimately, my time building the photo business is better spent elsewhere. But I'll still enjoy the gardens as a regular member, and may still jump at the chance to upgrade in order to try to sell something at their photo show. That will be my litmus test to further this or not.

Kevin

The portrait photography instructors at PCC are upset with these new rules also. They used the gardens to shoot for their summer portrait courses. Since this rule was installed they plan to stop going there (so far). There also don't allow any image taken during the class to be sold or used in any professional way - so that isn't the issue.

Time will tell how everyone responds.