This is a step beyond photography, call it an application of photography. The population and backgrounds at NPN are so diverse I thought it worthwhile to ask for pointers and experience.
Following my scientific photo work on the gray whale skeleton, the principals in the project are enthused beyond bounds. They've entered a "creative" phase looking for ways to use the photos and make them accessible and useful to a much broader audience.
They've come back to me for help, but as attractive as a new contract would be I have NO idea how to proceed or whether I could help.
Here's a summary from one of them:
I would think the ultimate way of organizing these would be to have a schematic on each page that shows where the bone comes from. If you could click on the schematic -at whatever bone you wanted to see and those photos jumped out. That would make it so convenient . Then it would be great to be able to click or circle or highlight different sections or different bones to compare them side by side on one page.
It would be great if the dorsal-ventral-lateral views for the vertebrae could be lined up as if it were loosely articulated .
I would think it would handiest to have all the views of a bone come up at one time on one page. Then if one wanted to enlarge one view- click on it and it would jump to full page size with possibly a mini diagram down in the corner showing where this bone came from or showing the full assortment of that bones pictures . This would make it handiest for people who might be using this for bone comparison or reference or identification. I have no idea how many people would want it and at what cost. If word gets out - I suspect there are scientists- zoo-archaeologists-whale people-bone -people -educators etc that will be interested.
Another approach could be to make a way that the skeleton could be articulated on a computer screen from a pile of bone photos. I have no idea how but then it could be something that kids and teachers might like. Maybe dragging a bone around and when it is in the correct spot a noise happens and it locks into place, bone by bone till all the bones have a spot.
Looks like terrific fun both to build and use, but the ocean is large and my boat is so small.....
Posted by Matt Dallos on January 12, 2007 at 3:35 PM
Hank,
I would say that this would be a project best geared towards a talented user of Macromedia Flash. It wouldn't just be straight forward animation because you would need to have quite a bit of programing involved with all of the functions the client mentions. Doing this project in flash would also allow it to be distributed over the web with relative ease. It would take someone with quite a bit of skill to pull this off and have it function properly and be easy to use.
I could go into more detail, but I'm not exactly sure how much information you were looking for. If I can be of anymore help, feel free to contact me.
Posted by beth summer on January 12, 2007 at 3:38 PM
I can't help you at all, Hank...I'm strictly a beginner . That being said, it does sound like an "awesome" project and one that would benefit mass audiences...very cool I'm sure you'll hear from many of the techies for this project! Good luck and have fun!
Hadn't considered flash Matt, but I'll look into it. I was thinking more along the lines of setting something up like a web page with lots (and lots) of hot keys. Either one is out of my technical reach, but the more I know about it, the more helpful I can be in advising them. The last thing I want is to have my photos tagged onto a bum project!
Thanks Beth! I always knew clients were doing something with our photos, but have been reluctant to open the next page beyond camera instructions. The framework is being welded as I write this, and we're going to start major assembly of the skeleton in mid-February. I'm looking forward to some interesting documentary work!
Posted by Matt Dallos on January 12, 2007 at 9:01 PM
Hank,
Using flash would be basically the same underlying principle..to link to the different sections of the skeleton when clicked. However, using flash will allow you to have higher image quality, faster loading times and solve many of the cross platform/browser issues.
This does sound like an interesting idea and I think Matt is on the right track with Flash. T If you or your people aren't Flash savy it would probably work in HTML format using a front-end program like Adobe GoLive or Microsoft's Frontpage.
The project may share some things with photography; what the client thinks they want, what they really want and their budget.
From reading the description it does sound like a web based application but even with Flash it would be a broadband presentation. Would that be a great difficulty in your part of the world?
There is also Flash's 'big brother' Director which I understand has better graphic and programming capabilities which can be used on the net but is largely for standalone multimedia.
They might also consider some of the 3D programs such as Lightwave and 3D Studio. It would mean having to hire someone to build the frames for the images, but offer superior lighting and mapping possibilities. They needn't make an entire animation but individual images could be rendered into a web presentation.
If they went the whole nine yards and made an animation for educational purposes, images could be pulled out for other presentations such as the web. If they go the Flash route what they get is what they get.
I'm learning a whole bunch folks, so keep it coming.
At this point they envision a DVD which would necessarily include a self-launching program if I understand them correctly. At some point they will likely add sample features to their web site, but they have no ambition for the full version ever to be accessible from the web. I.e., they'd prefer to sell the DVDs as a partial source of ongoing funding to the project, rather than give it all away for free. I talked to a couple of GA's and a video animation producer I work with and they felt 3D would be above and beyond, short of an infusion of funding from a major grant source.
I'm wondering if flash can be self-launching on a DVD much like an html-based browser.
Hank,
When I read your request, I had immediately thought of Macromedia Director. If this is for a DVD, I'd go this route. I'd only consider Flash if going on the web. I had taken a client once who had wanted their paper catalog put on CD to be able to be used cross-platform. This was in 1999 or so. I chose to take their Quark X-Press files and convert them all to PDF and creat a clickable index. Well, they saw that and then decided they wanted videos and animation added in and other types of stuff that Acrobat couldn't do at that time, so I had to pass it off to someone who did the project in Director. It worked great in Director and the client was happy. Director is great for all kinds of stuff like that.
It might be a "growth" process and certainly a learning experience, but the great feedback I'm getting is leading me to believe I can do some of this work myself. My perpetual optimism sometimes (often?) paints me into corners, but my follow up on all these great comments convinces me I can probably do a lot of this, with the certain exception of the pile-of-bones idea. Macromedia Director was the real icebreaker, and I thank you for that recommendation Michelle!
Do you know any Lingo programming? If not you may want to find somebody locally who can do it. It is the backbone of a good Director presentation and somebody who is fluent with it can make all the difference to a final product.
With some trial and error I suspect you won't find the actual graphics aspect of Director all that difficult given your experience with other graphics programs.
Thanks for the heads up, Dave. I don't know bingo about Lingo, so I'll have to explore a bit before getting my hopes up. I see that Adobe has a trial version, so my immediate project will be to test the water. Recall my comments about optimism, corners and painting? You might have saved me from tracking paint all over my patch.
Discussion
11 repliesFollowing my scientific photo work on the gray whale skeleton, the principals in the project are enthused beyond bounds. They've entered a "creative" phase looking for ways to use the photos and make them accessible and useful to a much broader audience.
They've come back to me for help, but as attractive as a new contract would be I have NO idea how to proceed or whether I could help.
Here's a summary from one of them:
I would think the ultimate way of organizing these would be to have a schematic on each page that shows where the bone comes from. If you could click on the schematic -at whatever bone you wanted to see and those photos jumped out. That would make it so convenient . Then it would be great to be able to click or circle or highlight different sections or different bones to compare them side by side on one page.
It would be great if the dorsal-ventral-lateral views for the vertebrae could be lined up as if it were loosely articulated .
I would think it would handiest to have all the views of a bone come up at one time on one page. Then if one wanted to enlarge one view- click on it and it would jump to full page size with possibly a mini diagram down in the corner showing where this bone came from or showing the full assortment of that bones pictures . This would make it handiest for people who might be using this for bone comparison or reference or identification. I have no idea how many people would want it and at what cost. If word gets out - I suspect there are scientists- zoo-archaeologists-whale people-bone -people -educators etc that will be interested.
Another approach could be to make a way that the skeleton could be articulated on a computer screen from a pile of bone photos. I have no idea how but then it could be something that kids and teachers might like. Maybe dragging a bone around and when it is in the correct spot a noise happens and it locks into place, bone by bone till all the bones have a spot.
Looks like terrific fun both to build and use, but the ocean is large and my boat is so small.....
I would say that this would be a project best geared towards a talented user of Macromedia Flash. It wouldn't just be straight forward animation because you would need to have quite a bit of programing involved with all of the functions the client mentions. Doing this project in flash would also allow it to be distributed over the web with relative ease. It would take someone with quite a bit of skill to pull this off and have it function properly and be easy to use.
I could go into more detail, but I'm not exactly sure how much information you were looking for. If I can be of anymore help, feel free to contact me.
Hadn't considered flash Matt, but I'll look into it. I was thinking more along the lines of setting something up like a web page with lots (and lots) of hot keys. Either one is out of my technical reach, but the more I know about it, the more helpful I can be in advising them. The last thing I want is to have my photos tagged onto a bum project!
Thanks Beth! I always knew clients were doing something with our photos, but have been reluctant to open the next page beyond camera instructions. The framework is being welded as I write this, and we're going to start major assembly of the skeleton in mid-February. I'm looking forward to some interesting documentary work!
Using flash would be basically the same underlying principle..to link to the different sections of the skeleton when clicked. However, using flash will allow you to have higher image quality, faster loading times and solve many of the cross platform/browser issues.
Cheers,
Alex
The project may share some things with photography; what the client thinks they want, what they really want and their budget.
From reading the description it does sound like a web based application but even with Flash it would be a broadband presentation. Would that be a great difficulty in your part of the world?
There is also Flash's 'big brother' Director which I understand has better graphic and programming capabilities which can be used on the net but is largely for standalone multimedia.
They might also consider some of the 3D programs such as Lightwave and 3D Studio. It would mean having to hire someone to build the frames for the images, but offer superior lighting and mapping possibilities. They needn't make an entire animation but individual images could be rendered into a web presentation.
If they went the whole nine yards and made an animation for educational purposes, images could be pulled out for other presentations such as the web. If they go the Flash route what they get is what they get.
Dave
At this point they envision a DVD which would necessarily include a self-launching program if I understand them correctly. At some point they will likely add sample features to their web site, but they have no ambition for the full version ever to be accessible from the web. I.e., they'd prefer to sell the DVDs as a partial source of ongoing funding to the project, rather than give it all away for free. I talked to a couple of GA's and a video animation producer I work with and they felt 3D would be above and beyond, short of an infusion of funding from a major grant source.
I'm wondering if flash can be self-launching on a DVD much like an html-based browser.
When I read your request, I had immediately thought of Macromedia Director. If this is for a DVD, I'd go this route. I'd only consider Flash if going on the web. I had taken a client once who had wanted their paper catalog put on CD to be able to be used cross-platform. This was in 1999 or so. I chose to take their Quark X-Press files and convert them all to PDF and creat a clickable index. Well, they saw that and then decided they wanted videos and animation added in and other types of stuff that Acrobat couldn't do at that time, so I had to pass it off to someone who did the project in Director. It worked great in Director and the client was happy. Director is great for all kinds of stuff like that.
Do you know any Lingo programming? If not you may want to find somebody locally who can do it. It is the backbone of a good Director presentation and somebody who is fluent with it can make all the difference to a final product.
With some trial and error I suspect you won't find the actual graphics aspect of Director all that difficult given your experience with other graphics programs.
Dave