Last evening we were driving back from Moscow Idaho and came across some gorgeous winter country ( I can't imagine how beautiful this would be in spring ) and we pretty much pulled out every 30 minutes looking for a photo spot. After 2- 3 such stops somewhere in Washington, came across this cattle ranch and the sunset cast a very dramatic light.
I have a feeling of something lacking in this picture, may be I'm too picky. Let me know what do you guys think. At least I was glad that I could get out and take some winter pictures. Thanks for looking and welcome your comments and suggestions.
Canon Rebel XT, 20-35 at 20 mm (32 mm on the rebel), adjusted for exposure, unsharp mask , cropped and straightened.
- pradeep
Posted by Marc Adamus on January 15, 2007 at 8:27 PM
I think what is lacking is a more deliberate compositon. There's a lot of clutter up against that fence in the immediate foreground leaving me wanting to see a more inviting presentation.
This is difficult country to compose a landscape image. Once I was driving just north of Moscow and witnessed an unbelievable sunset. Some of the finest light I had ever seen. I franticly scoured the area but to no avail. I never took one picture of it, which means of course that I am really picky, but also that these vacant farmlands pose some compositional challenges.
I've found that farmlands are often best shot with telephoto lenses (not saying that this is always preferable). Long lenses are often seen in images depicting the nearby Palouse hills, from higher ground overlooking the diversely textured lands. They can really help simplify these vast landscapes. The wide angle stuff necesitates a stronger foreground and leading lines than are present here. Additionally diminishing the composition is at least a 10-degree tilt down to the right, and very poor details due to web compression. The partial snow-cover is another issue that is challenging to deal with, as it presents strong contrasts that are not usually complimentary. What I do like is the sweeping background fenceline (not of the ugly barbed variety) and how you've handled what little light there was. The exposure is near-perfect.
Marc, you assume that he is trying to idealize cattle ranching and make a pretty picture. You are probably right given what Pradeep said. If that is the case (pretty picture being a goal) then I agree with your critique.
Of course, not all photography is or should be about pretty pictures. More of an emphasis on the barbed wire and dull shadowed lighting might make this look more like a death camp for cows, for example. That's where I would have taken this photo, personally.
I've sometimes thought of a photo project of clearcuts shot in conditions/lighting/composition that highlight the type of emotion that these places cause. Would this be nature photography? Absolutely. In the "NPN standard box"? Nope.
Posted by Marc Adamus on January 15, 2007 at 8:58 PM
"I've sometimes thought of a photo project of clearcuts shot in conditions/lighting/composition that highlight the type of emotion that these places cause. Would this be nature photography? Absolutely. In the "NPN standard box"? Nope."
I disagree. NPN, more than any other venue I've ever seen for nature photography is about diversity. Heck, I even have a shot of a clearcut posted on the Environmental Photojournalism page. People appreciate all varieties of natural imaging here so long as they have either aesthetic or emotional value, or at the very least intrigue. There no "standard box". Look at all the pages of NPN on a daily basis and you'll see an incredible range of nature images.
"More of an emphasis on the barbed wire and dull shadowed lighting might make this look more like a death camp for cows, for example"
I totally agree. But that isn't what is shown here and there was every indication that was not the intent, so I critiqued accordingly.
As an observation separate from this image/thread (not picking on you here -- you have my complete respect), it's still my experience that most NPN critiquers will try to steer you toward "pretty picture" and idealized scenes that emote pleasantness, assuming that's what you were after without asking. That's what I mean by "NPN standard"-- "pretty picture" seems to be the normal assumption of intent around here unless it is explicitly stated otherwise.
The photojournalism gallery is an exception as you point out.
Marc, yes there is a lot of clutter in this composition. I stood at this location for 20 minutes thinking of a good composition and could come up with nothing. Rather than walking away empty handed I thought I'll make the best use of what's in hand ( that's just me ). I tried several compositions with the lens I had. I never imagined these farmlands to be so challenging. Here is another composition ( with less clutter , though again not completely satisfactory, a little better than the first one I guess). This is what I feel is not good about this composition -
The sun is not placed correctly
The road ( with partial snow ) does not have a leading end - it seems to come from nowhere
The minor clutter at the lower right hand corner.
Of course when I took this shot all these did not come to my mind. I have not yet reached a stage where I can frame the picture much before I shoot it.
Swami - Where I come from, cows are sacred :-P. ( That's a rip off from a stand up comedy show ). Well I don't mind ranching for a short time ( at least I get to ride horses and see some beautiful country ) but not in the long run though. I much prefer a crowded city living.
Pradeep, I think my final observation is that the lighting in both of these photos causes them to lie in the vague somewhat bland emotional space somewhere between "cow death camp" and "idealized old west". The second one is a little closer to "idealized old west" but not all the way there.
It makes me think of home. I grew up in that area. It can be challenging to photograph. I like the second comp better. I see it and I think of cold winters dipping into the teens with a cold wind blowing and dropping off hay for the herd.
Discussion
9 repliesI have a feeling of something lacking in this picture, may be I'm too picky. Let me know what do you guys think. At least I was glad that I could get out and take some winter pictures. Thanks for looking and welcome your comments and suggestions.
Canon Rebel XT, 20-35 at 20 mm (32 mm on the rebel), adjusted for exposure, unsharp mask , cropped and straightened.
- pradeep
This is difficult country to compose a landscape image. Once I was driving just north of Moscow and witnessed an unbelievable sunset. Some of the finest light I had ever seen. I franticly scoured the area but to no avail. I never took one picture of it, which means of course that I am really picky, but also that these vacant farmlands pose some compositional challenges.
I've found that farmlands are often best shot with telephoto lenses (not saying that this is always preferable). Long lenses are often seen in images depicting the nearby Palouse hills, from higher ground overlooking the diversely textured lands. They can really help simplify these vast landscapes. The wide angle stuff necesitates a stronger foreground and leading lines than are present here. Additionally diminishing the composition is at least a 10-degree tilt down to the right, and very poor details due to web compression. The partial snow-cover is another issue that is challenging to deal with, as it presents strong contrasts that are not usually complimentary. What I do like is the sweeping background fenceline (not of the ugly barbed variety) and how you've handled what little light there was. The exposure is near-perfect.
Of course, not all photography is or should be about pretty pictures. More of an emphasis on the barbed wire and dull shadowed lighting might make this look more like a death camp for cows, for example. That's where I would have taken this photo, personally.
I've sometimes thought of a photo project of clearcuts shot in conditions/lighting/composition that highlight the type of emotion that these places cause. Would this be nature photography? Absolutely. In the "NPN standard box"? Nope.
I disagree. NPN, more than any other venue I've ever seen for nature photography is about diversity. Heck, I even have a shot of a clearcut posted on the Environmental Photojournalism page. People appreciate all varieties of natural imaging here so long as they have either aesthetic or emotional value, or at the very least intrigue. There no "standard box". Look at all the pages of NPN on a daily basis and you'll see an incredible range of nature images.
"More of an emphasis on the barbed wire and dull shadowed lighting might make this look more like a death camp for cows, for example"
I totally agree. But that isn't what is shown here and there was every indication that was not the intent, so I critiqued accordingly.
As an observation separate from this image/thread (not picking on you here -- you have my complete respect), it's still my experience that most NPN critiquers will try to steer you toward "pretty picture" and idealized scenes that emote pleasantness, assuming that's what you were after without asking. That's what I mean by "NPN standard"-- "pretty picture" seems to be the normal assumption of intent around here unless it is explicitly stated otherwise.
The photojournalism gallery is an exception as you point out.
The sun is not placed correctly
The road ( with partial snow ) does not have a leading end - it seems to come from nowhere
The minor clutter at the lower right hand corner.
Of course when I took this shot all these did not come to my mind. I have not yet reached a stage where I can frame the picture much before I shoot it.
Swami - Where I come from, cows are sacred :-P. ( That's a rip off from a stand up comedy show ). Well I don't mind ranching for a short time ( at least I get to ride horses and see some beautiful country ) but not in the long run though. I much prefer a crowded city living.
http://varyinglight.com/blog/photo/pics/idaho-barn4.jpg