Lightroom Class

This week Adobe announced the release of Lightroom at an introductory price of $199. Version 1.0 will be released mid-February, and the beta versions will expire Feb 28. More info here

I'm teaching a Lightroom class on Sunday February 25 from 1-5 pm in Denver. The exact location TBD based on the number of participants, but I'm planning to choose a venue somewhere in central Denver.

The cost for the class is $45 paid in advance or $55 the day of the class. Email me to sign up and make payment arrangements.

If you haven't purchased the product prior to the class I will have installers for the beta versions (Mac and Windows) so you can still follow along. (Bring a laptop if you have one.)

Lightroom is a powerful, elegant workflow solution that is likely to change the way many photographers process digital images. I look forward to seeing everyone at the class!

Very cool. I've read enough to know that I want the software, but I haven't had time to really get into it. Thanks Nat!

Even though I will not attend your class, I think you are providing a very useful service at a very modest price.

I would definitely be there...if I wasn't traveling that weekend (again ). I downloaded the beta a while back, but haven't had much time to get familiar with the software.

Thanks for offering this to the group, Nat!

Do you actually believe that Lightroom will change the way photogs process? I am just curious, lightroom and apeture have many similarities right now, and to say one is better than the other is still up in the air. Lightroom does a better job of the adjustments, while apeture has a better workflow and metadate capabilities. Most of the features Lightroom has will be in CS3. Both are resource hogs, except apeture runs smoothly on the new macs, and both intergrate into photoshop the same. I just do not see myself purchasing another program that is not offering much more than I already have in PS. Just not crazy about lightroom yet, I am still waiting for my good friend to do a review on this over at photoshop cafe. Once Colin writes something on this further, I may look at it more. I'm just not seeing what the big deal is over the program.

Nat, Adobe has announced a trial version of Lightroom 1.0 will be available for download on the release date, Feb 19. I assume this will be full-featured, but time-limited like the Photoshop CS2 trial. That would likely serve better for those in your class that haven't purchased yet than the last beta.

Mike,
Have you seen the preview on DOP? http://www.outbackphoto.com/artofraw/raw_31/essay.html has some comparison of LR V1.0 to aperture.
I don't have any experience with aperture being a PC kinda guy. I like LR over ACR and bridge. It's workflow is more photographer-centric and focused on processing large quantities of images. Also, future development promises to be photographer-centric vice having to apply to grahic designers, illustrators, and other PS users while still maintaining close PS linkage.

Based on beta 4 there are still plenty of things that I hope LR will incorporate. The initial reviews of 1.0 sound promising but I know there are some features that won't make this version, in particular better DAM support. Based on the response to the Beta though, I bet it's going to have a pretty good adoption rate.

Just my $0.02.

I do believe that Lightroom clearly represents the latest advances in software design and photographic workflow. Though there have been many comparisons made between Aperture and Lightroom, the people involved in developing Lightroom are the best in the imaging business. The way the beta program evolved has led to a range of features in response to real-world workflow issues. One example: The fact that Lightroom incorporates a relational database (instead of just being a file browser) changes the way large volumes of images can be managed directly within an editing environment.

I guess the bottom line for me is that having used Photoshop for 15 years and used all professional-level image processing software since the advent of digital photography, I've become a believer in Lightroom after working with the beta versions over the past 6 months. I also think it's very reasonably priced - the Develop module and the raw processing engine alone are worth the price of admission. But Lightroom goes way beyond that... making things like generating web sites and presentations and printing much more streamlined.

I understand that like anything else the choice of software is a personal decision and not everyone will have the same experiences or response to using the program. For one, I'm ready to make Lightroom a major part of my workflow, and will forego Aperture and Capture One entirely now. I suspect that people who don't see the value in Lightroom haven't yet used it extensively enough to see the differences it can make.

NAPP has been pushing out a bunch of instructional and informational material about Lightroom, check it out at

http://www.photoshopuser.com/lightroom/index.html

Scott Kelby's Top 10 list of improvements is useful for understanding some of the revolutionary features in Lightroom.

Kurt - thanks for mentioning the trial version of 1.0; this will be a better short-term solution than using beta 4.1.

If I shoot a few landscapes and take time messing with each image, does Lightroom do anything for me?

Tony - Lightroom treats raw, psd, jpg, tiff equally, meaning you can work on single images non-desctructively and the edits are stored in the database. Lightroom's Develop module is excellent for fine tuning individual image adjustments and really offers a lot of control. That said, Lightroom is ideally suited to working with raw images from a digital camera.

I use Lightroom to initially view, sort and rank my images, process the selects and then export them to Photoshop for sharpening, retouching and compositing. Then back to Lightroom for saving different sizes and file formats such as web images.

Nat, your post implies that you will be teaching from the Beta version.
Based on what has been posted in the early reviews V.1 differs considerably from the Beta - with both significant additions and deletions.

From my experience with the Lightroom Betas and the CS3 Beta, I MUCH prefer CS3 and do not see the value, in my workflow, of paying for both. With that said, I plan to attend your class to be convinced otherwise. I'm particulary interested in understanding how the DAM deals with a database that exceeds the capacity of a single hard drive.

Bill-
Sorry for the confusion; I am teaching version 1.0, not the beta. And I will bring installers for the trial versions for anyone who doesn't have it loaded.

Kalin, I have read that article, and thanks. I am a long time user of ps and all design software. I have been working in ps since 1992. I'm just not sure on it yet, I will download the beta work with it til expires and then have my final say on it. I am sure it is good, and adobe has worked hard because of apple's apt, both will have their place, and I am sure before time line ends, I may end up purchasing it. I am reading alot on it, hearing alot on it, and trying to figure it out. Nat posting this, got me thinking about this software even more. Kelby has some interesting things on there, and a few really rocking ones. I think is has very similar qualities of editing as cs3. In the end I think intergrating all of these may really work great, or giving up one the hog resource programs, lol.

thanks for feedback Nat, Kalin. I will dabble in it this week/end.

mike

Lightroom is anything but hype. The way images are processed through the pipeline is different as is the interface. Lightroom does not replace or fix Photoshop or Bridge CS3. It is meant to be a companion to these programs.

Lightroom provides a relational database for managing the image library. If you've been using iView or ACDSee for this, you won't need to anymore. Conversely, Bridge is a file browser and only shows you files on your hard drive.

Lightroom also offers serious power in working with metadata. If you don't know why this is important you need to find out.

And maybe most importantly, if you shoot digital raw, Lightroom provides the absolute state-of-the-art in raw conversion. CS3 and ACR will undoubtedly adopt some of the capability from Lightroom.

It seems to me that resistance to learning and using new software is more of a personal statement than a practical approach to one's work. I have been quite surprised at the hesitation within RMNP members to even consider trying Lightroom, and in my opinion this demonstrates an attitude that is counterproductive to advancing ones art. It reminds me a lot of the unfounded arguments of film vs. digital. Or maybe even using a typewriter instead of a computer. But ultimately, anyone who is serious about photography comes around to the idea of using more advanced tools, even if it sounds scary and confusing at first.

And Don, ALL software has flaws. That does not present a relavant argument for at least trying something new. If you don't want to try Lightroom, then don't. But I don't appreciate the attempts to discourage people from coming to my Lightroom class by arguing about it in this post.

Out of respect for Nat's post, I'll simply offer my perspective of looking forward to what I view as the biggest innovation since Photoshop layers (rather than address what's "wrong" with Adobe). Keep in mind that Photoshop is first and foremost a graphic designer's tool - has been for nearly 20 years. To that end, the PS suite leaves almost nothing to complain about.

The infusion of digital imaging enthusiasts is a relatively new phenomenon - thus the addition of ACR and other digital-imaging features in recent years. Photoshop offers many power features that work well for photographers, and will continue to do so. But it's not a tool just for photographers. VERY important to keep in mind. You don't want to have a piece of software that tries to do it all for everyone. It seems like a natural progression that Adobe would focus on streamlining the workflow of photographers - and create something that compliments the power of Photoshop editing.

Now, comparing Lightroom to anything else out there is a matter of debate, which I personally don't find worthwhile - yet of course it's appropriate (probably in another thread!). I too own something else, and I'm dropping it.

The appropriate way to look at this, IMO, is that Adobe has put a lot of genuine effort (THOUSANDS of photographers in beta testing?!) into designing a unique product that is tuned to our workflow needs. I, for one, am hyped over several features - but mostly for the prospect of Lightroom's comprehensive and unequaled database features. When you compare Portfolio, ACD, iView, etc. and Lightroom for database capabilities, it's a serious no-brainer. And that's only one of the aspects of Lightroom that is worth getting excited over.

Can't wait for the class!

PS - I don't own Adobe stock. :) But I do have to use Adobe stuff all day, nearly everyday for my job - for better and sometimes worse.

I have to agree both with Jesse's and Nat's comments. If you shoot digital you need to look at Lightroom.
I have been using the beta since it came out and will be purchasing v. 1. Just the database capability alone is important as well as the excellent RAW processing.

Hi Nat,
Thanks for some extra explanation on the benefits of LR. I' m sorry, and beg your forgiveness, if my 1st post sounded like I was trying to discourage anyone from attending your workshop. I certainly did not intend for it to sound that way. I do see your point in how it might influence others and for that I totally apologize. I've never looked at what I say as influencing anyone about anything, big oops!
You are providing a valuable service for all of us in need of answers by offering your workshop to us and I thank you for the opportunity. For me, my hesitation to try it is due to not acquiring enough info about what it can or can't do.
I am still investigating the benefits, as I stated in my first post, I was wondering if I was missing something, which it appears I was, and I thank you for helping me out with that!
I don't know if I will try it or not yet. And, yes, I do add metadata to all my images, which I then store on 2 external HDs, and the manner in which I organize my images makes it easy for me to find a specific image in less than a minute or two. As those image numbers increase, an easy to use database would more than likely be of benefit to me.
You also mention RAW processing, which is what I shoot 100% of the time. I just started using Capture One LE because of the clean results it gives me especially in large expanses of uniform colors, such as skies. In this aspect, it beats ACR and even DPP by Canon, both of which showed a touch of noise in those areas. You mentioned that you used to use Capture One and were now going to Lightroom's RAW processor instead. Is Lightroom's RAW processor the equal to Capture One now, or do you feel it's better?
One other question I have about LR, how does it compare to other programs (iViewMediaPro,etc) in the speed of accessing the database thumbnails and metadata searches.

Don

Don-
Thanks for your response, I really appreciate your clearing the air - and no hard feelings.

Throughout the photo industry there is always lot of debate over software - and hardware, of course, from cameras to computers there is never a clear consensus about what's the "best" solution. (The closest I've seen in terms of agreement lately is the love for the Canon 5D.... but this is quite the exception.)

In terms of Lightroom's raw processing - yes, I prefer the results over CaptureOne (all versions) for both the image quality and the controls provided. This was not always the case - I used C1 for years while ACR was coming of age, but ultimately felt the workflow and interface in C1 came up short compared to the more recent Adobe solutions. Thomas Knoll has been working almost exclusively on developing the raw processing engine and controls that are now incorporated in Lightroom and will eventually find their way into ACR (some already in CS3 beta). And a major advancement occured when Adobe bought Pixmantec and incorporated key algorithms from Raw Shooter Essentials (RSE), developed by Michael Jonsson who is now integral in Adobe's raw processing development team.

Same advantage goes to Lightroom vs. iView. I have used iView and Extensis Portfolio for years, but find the all-in-one solution offered by Lightroom to be superior in terms of speed and efficiency. Even when I'm running Lightroom on my old PowerBook G4 - if I pay attention to system resources - Lightroom performs great, even with large numbers of images. I have been using Lightroom with multiple libraries, too... you can have as many different databases as you need for your particular situation. Using more, smaller databases keeps Lightroom nimble.

In terms of metadata operations, there's never been anything like what Lightroom offers. I don't have time or space to go into these features in depth here, but metadata in Lightroom will be one of the main topics covered in my workshop.

I'd like to express my thanks for the support and registrations I've received for this class offering, and my understanding of the hesitancy from some people in adopting new methods. This is a somewhat dicey time in the evolution of digital image processing: only recently are tools being developed from the ground up to support the modern workflow. Lightroom (and to a lesser degree, Aperture) represent the new way of working. And adopting new ways is not always easy. It means thinking about one's work differently, and learning to appreciate the increased potential offered in various new tools. My attitude has always been to jump right in, learn as much as possible and make decisions armed with complete information and understanding. Often, this means changing horses mid-stream.... and Lightroom is definitely my new workhorse.

Of course, like everyone, I am using the CS3 beta and very excitedly looking forward to the next full release of Photoshop, Bridge and ACR. Along with Lightroom, they all work together very well.

It's not bad Nat, I like certain things about it, and it intergrates well with CS3. Now, everything in here processing wise, is in 3, in which most of my processing is done. The meta capabilities is nice, but think Apeture is better in that field. I think it runs smoothly on my MBP, and has not crashed at all loading it up full of libraries. I like the window view more in this than bridge, in bridge you have to click on mulitple images to compare side by side, here you can increase and decrease the size of your images, and go through a bracketed set nicely. It runs damn quick, and me being a quick key user, ( I hate going through menus with a mouse) so I study all quick key commands first and then just run. It's not bad, and I will have it on hand for the price. It has alot of nice features, and overall well thought out, I am sure many will enjoy this program.

Nice review, Mike.... glad you had a chance to put Lightroom through its paces. The keyboard shortcuts are definitely very useful.

FYI the metadata features are greatly advanced in v1 compared to beta 4.1.

If anyone wants to buy Lightroom now you can get it for $169.15 if you enter the promotion code Macworld07. Will be released February 18.

That is why I am buying it Nat, you really cannot beat it for the price. And it's nice to know that about v1. They still have kinks in ps3 to fix, which i hope they did before the release. They both are very similar in what they have to offer in the processing area, the raw convertor in 3 has alot of really nice features to fine tune your work. Which lr has, but go figure, its adobe I feel like I have been using it for years, the navigation is nice...

Nat, I am very interested in LightRoom and the seminar you are offering. I am still trying to decide though if this is something I should really be pursuing or whether I can continue to get away with my present approach. Perhaps my problem is that I may have been viewing LR as an all in one solution rather than just one part of a good digital work flow? (At the moment I only use PS Elements 3.0 for my entire process. )

Here are a couple of questions that might help me in my own decision making. In the beta I was frustrated by not being able to easily produce and export individual web ready images or images that had been prepared for printing. (I don't do my own printing and I don't want web galleries). With LR would I still need to use PS to prepare individual images for web or print? Also, I've been looking at CaptureOne primarily because of the way that it handles images which include the sun. Does the LR raw converter do an equally good job at this? Finally, how long do you think the $169 price will be available?

Thanks for your patience with these questions? I think this thread is whetting the appetite of many for your seminar and this product.

Erik, I will do what I can to help you, even in the beta version you should have no problems exporting web images/or any other file formats, from psd/.tiff/dng files. When ready to export, hit the export button, lower left corner, this screen will come up:

Now in here you can set up your preferences, either to web/making a .tiff/psd or dng file, along with the compression and bit ratio settings/ dpi ration, etc. Now, you can also continue to on to PS, and fine tune you editing in there, by telling it to open in PS after action performed.

Printing module works great, alot of options in here that is in depth, including printing the preview, without LR having to redraw the orginal raw file. The options for making contact sheets, maximizing print area, proofs, with adding ©info over the image inself. Even when you make subltel changes, meta data info is updated from hig res file, to your thumbs.

Processing in LR, will do better than Capture one IMO, you have alot of control over you imagery in here, with the ability to really fine tune your work. The price will be only for the rest of the month, I believe the 28th, is the deadline.

I am sure Nat can fill in more, but this is just my 2cents from running it the last week.

mike

Nat, thanks for the code. Unfortunately I already order it at $199
I sent you an email but no reply. Where do I register for the workshop?

Erik, Mike's note on the export function is how I produce most of my web images from LR. However, I haven't found a way to overlay my copyright, which I have as a PS smart object, during the export. So I still end up going into PS to add the copyright. As Mike pointed out, the print module lets you overlay copyright info. The web gallery does also, so I know the functionality is there. One option would be to use the web gallery module to do the leg work then simply grab the image files it generates for whatever you want to use them for rather than uploading the 'gallery'.

-- Kalin

Erik - Mike is right; currently the main way to generate derivative images is through the Export command. Ideally, you could incorporate your copyright watermark using a Photoshop action that runs during the Export script. However, in the beta versions there has not been a way to add your own custom actions to the list. I will check to see if this is possible in v1.

Kalin's workaround using Web and/or Print modules is an acceptable solution with lots of ways to tweak it to your own needs. An addition to this would be to export PSDs or TIFFs from LR (instead of JPG so no lossy compression) into a temp folder and then run Image Processor from Bridge on those files (which allows you to run your own script during processing). Lightroom offers a Watched Folder that at some point could be very useful here.

This is a good example of how all three components can work together, though I expect over time Lightroom will grow to be a more all-in-one solution.

In the meantime, though, I'd recommend that the all around best solution is to create an action in Photoshop to do what you want and save it as a droplet. You can then drag and drop sets of files onto the droplet and let Photoshop run the action.

And in any case, you can use even the LR beta to export/print/save for web any single image or a group of images; it only depends what you have selected in the Library.

Not a lot of options for effectively integrating LR with Elements.

Thanks to everyone for the lively and helpful discussion.

Kalin - I emailed you this afternoon... thanks for your registration!

Nat,
I'm assuming that promotion code is for the Adobe online store and entered at checkout?
Thanks for the tip.

Bill-
Sorry for not clarifying; yes that promo code is for the online store at Adobe.com and entered as the promo code during checkout.

Nat:

Is there an easier way to sign up and pay for the class (other than trading e-mails)?

Is this class the Lightroom component of the Maine Photographic Workshops class you will be teaching?

Thanks,

CAZ-

I will be posting online payment instructions soon... and thanks for mentioning the Maine workshop. Yes, this workshop will feature techniques that will serve as an introduction to the week long program in Maine.