Posted by Rick Lamb on February 3, 2007 at 2:15 PM
Hey folks, as a senior systems administrator (SA) of Windows based servers for Boeing AND a fotografer I am quite intrigued by Windows Vista. More by some of the "under the hood" improvements than the more apparent fancy new GUI. So a couple of days ago I took the dive and installed Windows Vista Ultimate on my primary home/business computer. (why do they have 7 separate versions of Vista???? Marketing gone amok I say...) This is after having run it in a virtual PC since before Release Candidate 1.
Overall I am quite pleased. It runs quite fast on the Dell XPS 600 we purchased late last year with an Intel Duo Core 3Ghz processor and 2GB of RAM. I have an InVidia 7900 GS video card with 256MB of RAM so I can run the eye pleasing Aero GUI quite successfully. And yes we spec'd out these PC's (we bought one for myself and a matching one for Nancy) to run Vista going forward.
I am having some issues with Nero 7.0 on Vista. Nero is CD/DVD burning software that also comes with a bunch of less than stellar add-ons that they use to try to compel folks to buy it. These add-ons are not living well with Vista so I will be un-installing Nero and re-installing it with only the bare necessities. I've had more than a few blue screens of death that I have been able to directly attribute to Nero... (I knew I shouldn't have installed those...sigh)
I have installed Adobe Photoshop CS2 and Adobe Lightroom beta 4.1 and both are working fine but I've only done the bare minimum to test each so I will add more to this thread as time goes by. I will be installing Adobe Photoshop CS3 beta in the next few days but I have no reason to think it won't work.
Now as a day in day out SA I am loving some of the new admin tools in Vista. Particularly the Reliability and Performance Monitor. This tool is what helped me chase down the issues with Nero.
The new Windows Explorer takes some getting used to. It sports a completely new UI that I am not so happy about. I find myself having to focus more on using this UI than the old one in Windows XP.
So would I recommend Vista to my fellow fotogs? Well my advice is not to run out and buy it unless you are currently in the market for a new PC then get it as part of the package from Dell or HP etc. Vista's biggest competitor is actually Windows XP! XP is and has been a VERY stable environment for Windows based PC's for several years now and Vista doesn't really add much to compel an immediate upgrade for most folks.
Vista for fotogs does have a nice new color management tool that I have yet to work with so more on that in the near future.
Anyhoo these are my random ramblings about Vista and I hope this helps the curious members of our forum. As I glean more from Vista I will be adding my joys, aches n pains here for all to learn from.
Posted by Erik Lundh on February 3, 2007 at 2:55 PM
Rick,
Thanks for the review. I read some on Vista and you pretty nailed down what i've read. One thing I've heard is that it's a bit of a memory hog. What do you think?
Posted by Mark Hudon on February 4, 2007 at 1:20 PM
So far, Vista has been the best thing ever for Apple. A buddy of mine was over at the local Apple store and the place was packed with people buying new Macs.
Posted by Rick Lamb on February 16, 2007 at 6:37 PM
An update to my Vista experience -
Man it's been a trial. I've had issues with my nVidia "beta" driver for Vista. My Creative Labs "beta" driver for my sound card is also flakey. Sound quality isn't where it should be at all and I'm a huge fan of tunage as I slave away in my office/studio all day. Notice that both these drivers are "beta"....rather annoying for sure. (For the curious amongst you I listen to Radio Paradise most days - commercial free as music should be...)
And forget about using iTunes in Vista - it pukes n pukes n pukes. Quicktime isn't much better either. Word up is Apple is working on a fix.... I'm a huge fan of iTunes so this can't happen fast enough for me and my iPod!!
On the good side I am growing to like the Aero GUI. It's very easy on the eyes. And the Sidebar is quite useful too as long as one has a dual monitor setup to allow the extra real estate that the Sidebar consumes. But don't bother with the Sidebar if you aren't going to use Aero. It really looks like crap in the basic GUI.
Adobe Lightroom ships this coming Monday. LR beta 4.1 runs great so far. I was even able to get the new install of LR beta 4.1 to use my previous library which was hugely helpful since I have quite a bit of work in the previous library. I'm waiting to get 1.0 before I do anymore serious image work. I'll then be testing the Epson print driver for Vista. That at least ISN'T beta....
Photoshop CS3 beta is running fine in Vista so far. I'm having quite a bit of fun with all this new software and a new OS!! And I haven't noticed any issues with CS2 yet either.
What's truly killing Vista is the lack of stable drivers. I have a PC more than capable of running Vista with all the bells n whistles turned on but unfortunately the drivers just aren't 100% yet. The good news is I'm not ready to bail and go back to XP Pro SP2 just yet. I'm going to be patient. I knew going in I was going to be on the bleeding edge and that has proven to be the case. There's blood on the floor and more than a few un-postable words have flown through my office/studio but I'm not bailing, not just yet...
Posted by Curtis Knight on February 16, 2007 at 7:29 PM
Well I haven't seen any hardware/driver issues, but the view from the Software Quality Assurance chair, is that Vista is a bloated pig. 9+ gig of hard drive space???
It's so "pretty" I could almost lose my lunch!
And once again M$ can't find a happy medium between usability and security. The only secure computer is the one that is not plugged into a power outlet. the secret is to comprimise wisely. User Account Control is either all or nothing. When it's on, your productivity is brought to a slow crawl. when it's off, there's no difference between vista and xp when it comes to allowing malicious code to execute.
IMHO, It's got some nice improvements, and it's overall more secure, but it's not worth the increadibly inflated price... But... since vista is included with my MSDN subscription I'll install it when I get my RAM upgrade next month, but if I had to pay for it? No way! I'd just as soon stick with good ol' reliable Win2k.
Posted by Rick Lamb on February 16, 2007 at 7:41 PM
Curtis you are correct on all counts. I shut off User Account Control after the first day. And indeed the only "secure" PC is the one yet to arrive from Dell. Once plugged in and open to the internet all bets are off. In the Lamb Household we rely on a solid firewall in front of our PC's to provide a 1st line of defense.
And I agree that minus my MSDN subscription I too would not pay the entry fee.
Nancy & I came VERY close to buying Apple this time around. The deal killer was having to replace all our applications to be Apple compatible. Sure we could have dual booted but that kinda defeats the purpose in my mind.
Posted by Dave Simmerman on February 17, 2007 at 12:29 PM
Here's my take on the whole thing! I've installed the x64 version of Vista Ultimate. There are numerous issues of installing software, which requires you to run as administrator. I am waiting for driver updates for my colorimeter. There will be no picture editing until then! While I realized this would happen, I planned a dual boot system with XP Pro, so when I need those critical things done, I have the means. I run a home built 2.4Ghz Core2 Duo w 4Gb of RAM and Nvidia 7600 GS dual monitor card. The gadgets work great on the 2nd monitor, freeing up a lot of space. So far I enjoy the upgrade and immediately turned off that annoying account control feature as well. PS CS3 and Bridge CS3 Beta versions are working great...can't wait for the real thing to come out....I am calling 2007 "the year of the Software." Just my thoughts, thanks for reading
Hey folks, an installment on my journey down the Vista highway:
I've been having issues all along with my video driver from Nvidia. I get these annoyingly random 1 or 2 pixel lines across my screens (I have a dual screen setup) as I use my PC. DANG annoying they've been I tell ya!! I've updated my Nvidia driver as new versions come out but no relief has happened as of yet.
This morning I did some searching on the various hardware forums and discovered that Nvidia has not been acknowledging this issue. They say the Nvidia 7-Series video cards ( I have a 7900 GS) ARE Vista compatible but these lines are driving me nutso!! This is so annoying that I am on the verge of rolling back to Windows XP Pro. And do know that that is no small task & I would prefer to stay on Vista. In all other respects I am happy with Vista.
My other alternative is to go to a different video card. Maybe one from ATI this time. They seem to be doing a MUCH better job with their Vista drivers. Hey it's only money right??? Dang annoying I say!!
Posted by Curtis Knight on June 22, 2007 at 12:46 AM
Hey Rick, have you installed Adobe Reader v8 yet? I have User Account Control turned off to make Vista usable, and had to turn it back on just so I could install AR8! That means I had to reboot twice just to install AR. Once when I turned UAC off and again when I turned it back on.
Is 2 GB RAM a good start for CS2 in Vista, or should I think about XP Pro to make it zoom? What I'm most concerned with are the old components that I plan to install in the new computer (sound card, printer, scanner) as well as MS Office 2000 (the last computer I bought was in 2001). Anyone know if the software works better on one OS than another? I *DON'T* plan to repurchase any software, because, why should I???
And how about Apple? I've been shown that the Intel chips can emulate the PC quite nicely. Any thoughts about this?
Basically, I'll do whatever it takes to get the fastest processing, and I don't care if it needs to run in DOS
Kevin,
Get a power mac. A twin CPU dual core and get as much DRAM as you can afford. Power macs can boot Xp Bootcamp if you must use your Xp apps.
I used to hate macs (still don't like their GUI file system much), but when it comes stability, robustness and usability OX10 with Intel HW can't be beat. Besides then you price both you will find Apple is more than competitive on cost. You will need to change over to Mac photoshop CS2, but Adobe will do it for shipping cost. Personally just upgrade to PS CS3. Some plugins don't have mac counter parts, but there are always work arounds...
Macs are now the new true GEEK systems. All the geeks at work (computer company full of SW engineers) now own them. The like the linix like interface that they can use also.
Can a PowerMac use my old printer/scanner through a USB connection? Even if it can physically, software wise? I also need to check the Samsung SM226BW if it runs with a Mac. I have alot invested in PCWare, can a Mac save me from repurchasing everything? I guess my soundcard and surround sound system would be a loss, though.
I'm kind of stuck, so I've been pouring over the used computer ads to find a few months old computer that has XP installed. Unless the PowerMac is the cheaper option...
The power mac can boot xp vvia bootcamp, but it would probably be a pain to reboot all the time to use your legacy SW. Check with the manufacture to see If your printer/scanner has drivers for mac os.
I'm currently running Vista and PSCS (not 2, not 3, just CS) on 1.5gig and it works just fine.
My son uses VMWare to run windows on his powerbook has no problems with it.
Myself, I'm going buy a laptop later this summer and I'm trying to decide between a Dell or a MacBook. I'm still having trouble justifying so much more money for the Mac for equivalent hardware. Roughly $1,000 more... I'm the first to afgree that a unix/linux based system is more stable, but geez... that's a lot of money.
Discussion
13 repliesOverall I am quite pleased. It runs quite fast on the Dell XPS 600 we purchased late last year with an Intel Duo Core 3Ghz processor and 2GB of RAM. I have an InVidia 7900 GS video card with 256MB of RAM so I can run the eye pleasing Aero GUI quite successfully. And yes we spec'd out these PC's (we bought one for myself and a matching one for Nancy) to run Vista going forward.
I am having some issues with Nero 7.0 on Vista. Nero is CD/DVD burning software that also comes with a bunch of less than stellar add-ons that they use to try to compel folks to buy it. These add-ons are not living well with Vista so I will be un-installing Nero and re-installing it with only the bare necessities. I've had more than a few blue screens of death that I have been able to directly attribute to Nero... (I knew I shouldn't have installed those...sigh)
I have installed Adobe Photoshop CS2 and Adobe Lightroom beta 4.1 and both are working fine but I've only done the bare minimum to test each so I will add more to this thread as time goes by. I will be installing Adobe Photoshop CS3 beta in the next few days but I have no reason to think it won't work.
Now as a day in day out SA I am loving some of the new admin tools in Vista. Particularly the Reliability and Performance Monitor. This tool is what helped me chase down the issues with Nero.
The new Windows Explorer takes some getting used to. It sports a completely new UI that I am not so happy about. I find myself having to focus more on using this UI than the old one in Windows XP.
So would I recommend Vista to my fellow fotogs? Well my advice is not to run out and buy it unless you are currently in the market for a new PC then get it as part of the package from Dell or HP etc. Vista's biggest competitor is actually Windows XP! XP is and has been a VERY stable environment for Windows based PC's for several years now and Vista doesn't really add much to compel an immediate upgrade for most folks.
Vista for fotogs does have a nice new color management tool that I have yet to work with so more on that in the near future.
Anyhoo these are my random ramblings about Vista and I hope this helps the curious members of our forum. As I glean more from Vista I will be adding my joys, aches n pains here for all to learn from.
Thanks for the review. I read some on Vista and you pretty nailed down what i've read. One thing I've heard is that it's a bit of a memory hog. What do you think?
Man it's been a trial. I've had issues with my nVidia "beta" driver for Vista. My Creative Labs "beta" driver for my sound card is also flakey. Sound quality isn't where it should be at all and I'm a huge fan of tunage as I slave away in my office/studio all day. Notice that both these drivers are "beta"....rather annoying for sure. (For the curious amongst you I listen to Radio Paradise most days - commercial free as music should be...)
And forget about using iTunes in Vista - it pukes n pukes n pukes. Quicktime isn't much better either. Word up is Apple is working on a fix.... I'm a huge fan of iTunes so this can't happen fast enough for me and my iPod!!
On the good side I am growing to like the Aero GUI. It's very easy on the eyes. And the Sidebar is quite useful too as long as one has a dual monitor setup to allow the extra real estate that the Sidebar consumes. But don't bother with the Sidebar if you aren't going to use Aero. It really looks like crap in the basic GUI.
Adobe Lightroom ships this coming Monday. LR beta 4.1 runs great so far. I was even able to get the new install of LR beta 4.1 to use my previous library which was hugely helpful since I have quite a bit of work in the previous library. I'm waiting to get 1.0 before I do anymore serious image work. I'll then be testing the Epson print driver for Vista. That at least ISN'T beta....
Photoshop CS3 beta is running fine in Vista so far. I'm having quite a bit of fun with all this new software and a new OS!! And I haven't noticed any issues with CS2 yet either.
What's truly killing Vista is the lack of stable drivers. I have a PC more than capable of running Vista with all the bells n whistles turned on but unfortunately the drivers just aren't 100% yet. The good news is I'm not ready to bail and go back to XP Pro SP2 just yet. I'm going to be patient. I knew going in I was going to be on the bleeding edge and that has proven to be the case. There's blood on the floor and more than a few un-postable words have flown through my office/studio but I'm not bailing, not just yet...
It's so "pretty" I could almost lose my lunch!
And once again M$ can't find a happy medium between usability and security. The only secure computer is the one that is not plugged into a power outlet. the secret is to comprimise wisely. User Account Control is either all or nothing. When it's on, your productivity is brought to a slow crawl. when it's off, there's no difference between vista and xp when it comes to allowing malicious code to execute.
IMHO, It's got some nice improvements, and it's overall more secure, but it's not worth the increadibly inflated price... But... since vista is included with my MSDN subscription I'll install it when I get my RAM upgrade next month, but if I had to pay for it? No way! I'd just as soon stick with good ol' reliable Win2k.
And I agree that minus my MSDN subscription I too would not pay the entry fee.
Nancy & I came VERY close to buying Apple this time around. The deal killer was having to replace all our applications to be Apple compatible. Sure we could have dual booted but that kinda defeats the purpose in my mind.
I've been having issues all along with my video driver from Nvidia. I get these annoyingly random 1 or 2 pixel lines across my screens (I have a dual screen setup) as I use my PC. DANG annoying they've been I tell ya!! I've updated my Nvidia driver as new versions come out but no relief has happened as of yet.
This morning I did some searching on the various hardware forums and discovered that Nvidia has not been acknowledging this issue. They say the Nvidia 7-Series video cards ( I have a 7900 GS) ARE Vista compatible but these lines are driving me nutso!! This is so annoying that I am on the verge of rolling back to Windows XP Pro. And do know that that is no small task & I would prefer to stay on Vista. In all other respects I am happy with Vista.
My other alternative is to go to a different video card. Maybe one from ATI this time. They seem to be doing a MUCH better job with their Vista drivers. Hey it's only money right??? Dang annoying I say!!
(Mark H. I don't wanna hear it!
Is 2 GB RAM a good start for CS2 in Vista, or should I think about XP Pro to make it zoom? What I'm most concerned with are the old components that I plan to install in the new computer (sound card, printer, scanner) as well as MS Office 2000 (the last computer I bought was in 2001). Anyone know if the software works better on one OS than another? I *DON'T* plan to repurchase any software, because, why should I???
And how about Apple? I've been shown that the Intel chips can emulate the PC quite nicely. Any thoughts about this?
Basically, I'll do whatever it takes to get the fastest processing, and I don't care if it needs to run in DOS
Kevin
Get a power mac. A twin CPU dual core and get as much DRAM as you can afford. Power macs can boot Xp Bootcamp if you must use your Xp apps.
I used to hate macs (still don't like their GUI file system much), but when it comes stability, robustness and usability OX10 with Intel HW can't be beat. Besides then you price both you will find Apple is more than competitive on cost. You will need to change over to Mac photoshop CS2, but Adobe will do it for shipping cost. Personally just upgrade to PS CS3. Some plugins don't have mac counter parts, but there are always work arounds...
Macs are now the new true GEEK systems. All the geeks at work (computer company full of SW engineers) now own them. The like the linix like interface that they can use also.
Can a PowerMac use my old printer/scanner through a USB connection? Even if it can physically, software wise? I also need to check the Samsung SM226BW if it runs with a Mac. I have alot invested in PCWare, can a Mac save me from repurchasing everything? I guess my soundcard and surround sound system would be a loss, though.
I'm kind of stuck, so I've been pouring over the used computer ads to find a few months old computer that has XP installed. Unless the PowerMac is the cheaper option...
Kevin
My son uses VMWare to run windows on his powerbook has no problems with it.
Myself, I'm going buy a laptop later this summer and I'm trying to decide between a Dell or a MacBook. I'm still having trouble justifying so much more money for the Mac for equivalent hardware. Roughly $1,000 more... I'm the first to afgree that a unix/linux based system is more stable, but geez... that's a lot of money.