Posted by John Chapman on February 6, 2007 at 5:35 AM
Hi All
what are your views on baiting? Picture Female Northern Harrier. Nikon F5 500mm lens Slide Film. Look forward to all comments.
Posted by Danny Green on February 6, 2007 at 6:01 AM
Hello John
I think this will be an interesting topic. I have no problem baiting wildlife as long as it is done with care. Baiting wildlife can be from putting out food for garden birds or dead animals for birds of prey and predators. I think a lot of subjects can be enticed with food and this of course can get you closer to your subjects. If you are going to use this method then for me you have to make sure your subjects don't become over dependant on that food source and they don't become accustomed to humans as this causes problems in the long run. In Europe we are more relaxed with baiting but in America this is sometimes a no go area, brown bears are attracted to bait in finland but if you did this in america you would probably get shot One thing that always crops up in topics of this nature is the use of live bait, be it meal worms for Robins, small fish for kingfishers or live mice for Owls. You can argue that this wrong and of course it is, but I don't have a problem with the first two but draw a line on mice. Great Shot by the way.
Danny
Posted by Alan Bryant on February 6, 2007 at 8:23 AM
IMO i think this is how "many" photographers get the shots i see now adays.
As Danny said aslong as the subject does'nt depend on the food offering then i cant see anything wrong with it.
I was thinking about doing this with 2 Buzzards that i see at a place i go to.Yes they can fly over me but i want to get them in close range for photographing.So all i can think of is laying out a dead rabbit and waiting in a hide or undercover(the rabbit would be from the road side after being nocked down, i know a road for that...........oh that sounds bad for the poor rabbits ).
IMO whats the difference from setting up a hide and making a feeding station, from putting out something for a bird of prey to eat, same thing!.
The issue is dependency - not creating it.
A lesser issue is the source/type of bait for carnivores and I would suggest you use natures (dead) bounty instead of a processed substitute.
Strangely enough I have just finished reading a topic re baiting on the dreaded DPReview re using live bait for Owls and it is certainly a hotly debated subject......
For me the use of roadkill as bait does not cause a problem, down in the Ashdown Forest the roadkill deer are dragged away from the side of the road and the local foxes are used as a natural clearing up machine, also no problems with feeding stations, mine has benn set up to be used and stocked all year round with the wardens using it as a bird lookout for small groups of school children.
I do however have a massive problem with live baiting, I know many species will only eat freshly caught prey, but the odds against say a shop bought mouse being put out for an Owl surviving are not in its favour, if the Owl or other predator doesn't catch it then likely an environment that is hostile to the little creature will.....
Just my opinion.
Phil
Posted by Paul Gibbs on February 6, 2007 at 10:28 AM
It also depends on the species, baiting for say, buzzards, with a dead deer or rabbit, sounds ok to me. As this is a natural situation for buzzards. If you change an animals habits by offering an easy meal or regular baiting, then that is where i begin to disagree with it.
Posted by Tony Beazley on February 6, 2007 at 2:26 PM
Nice grab there!!!!
I usually pick up some good squirrels on the roads around my house...as long as they're not to damaged...and stick them on the dead tree in our field so the Redtails can come by and sit and eat. I don't do this too often..... but they do keep coming by to check at least once a week. We do have quite a bit of live varmits running around the yard for their choosing also.
I have used live mice for Kestrel shots. I made sure the Kestrel saw me before letting it go ...it jumped on it wiithin 30 seconds...not giving me much time to get a frame off here and there....haven't done this in years though.It's kind of a pain to keep live mice around your house....( This was at a baseball field where they were used to seeing humans all the time)
My trick nowadays is to put some feed out in the open for the yardbirds and rodents so they come out to
the open area to feed (if they dare ) and then the hawks can swoop down and get a more natural meal if they so desire. The Coopers Hawk will come by all the time to check out the menu
Still working on a good shot to post up
Hello John
Yet another superb raptor image. I agree with Tom's comments here.
Best wishes
Phil
Posted by Rob Ashton on February 6, 2007 at 3:19 PM
Lets be honest here. Most shots of wildlife taken by amateurs or professionals working to a deadline are taken using some form of baiting. Very few shots are chance encounters completely natural. Work commissioned by the BBC or National Geographic may allow the photographer to spend weeks or months to get the perfect shot but most of us have a limited amount of time to attempt to get decent shots.
As long as baiting does not create too much dependancy and you do not change the natural diet of the subject species, you should be able to use this as a method to get shots of certain behavior. Live baiting can be done in controlled situations where the prey species is not put under too much stress and you can uarranty a swift kill by the subject species.
Rob
Posted by Tony Beazley on February 8, 2007 at 12:58 AM
No I don't live up here with you guys but I thought baiting would somewhat be the same technique anywhere we go to get our shots. Ya'll take the shots I would like to achieve here in Tennessee.
Raptors in the snow are my favorite!!!
Discussion
11 replieswhat are your views on baiting? Picture Female Northern Harrier. Nikon F5 500mm lens Slide Film. Look forward to all comments.
I think this will be an interesting topic. I have no problem baiting wildlife as long as it is done with care. Baiting wildlife can be from putting out food for garden birds or dead animals for birds of prey and predators. I think a lot of subjects can be enticed with food and this of course can get you closer to your subjects. If you are going to use this method then for me you have to make sure your subjects don't become over dependant on that food source and they don't become accustomed to humans as this causes problems in the long run. In Europe we are more relaxed with baiting but in America this is sometimes a no go area, brown bears are attracted to bait in finland but if you did this in america you would probably get shot
Danny
As Danny said aslong as the subject does'nt depend on the food offering then i cant see anything wrong with it.
I was thinking about doing this with 2 Buzzards that i see at a place i go to.Yes they can fly over me but i want to get them in close range for photographing.So all i can think of is laying out a dead rabbit and waiting in a hide or undercover(the rabbit would be from the road side after being nocked down, i know a road for that...........oh that sounds bad for the poor rabbits
IMO whats the difference from setting up a hide and making a feeding station, from putting out something for a bird of prey to eat, same thing!.
Oh and great shot
A lesser issue is the source/type of bait for carnivores and I would suggest you use natures (dead) bounty instead of a processed substitute.
Strangely enough I have just finished reading a topic re baiting on the dreaded DPReview re using live bait for Owls and it is certainly a hotly debated subject......
For me the use of roadkill as bait does not cause a problem, down in the Ashdown Forest the roadkill deer are dragged away from the side of the road and the local foxes are used as a natural clearing up machine, also no problems with feeding stations, mine has benn set up to be used and stocked all year round with the wardens using it as a bird lookout for small groups of school children.
I do however have a massive problem with live baiting, I know many species will only eat freshly caught prey, but the odds against say a shop bought mouse being put out for an Owl surviving are not in its favour, if the Owl or other predator doesn't catch it then likely an environment that is hostile to the little creature will.....
Just my opinion.
Phil
I usually pick up some good squirrels on the roads around my house...as long as they're not to damaged...and stick them on the dead tree in our field so the Redtails can come by and sit and eat. I don't do this too often..... but they do keep coming by to check at least once a week. We do have quite a bit of live varmits running around the yard for their choosing also.
I have used live mice for Kestrel shots. I made sure the Kestrel saw me before letting it go ...it jumped on it wiithin 30 seconds...not giving me much time to get a frame off here and there....haven't done this in years though.It's kind of a pain to keep live mice around your house....( This was at a baseball field where they were used to seeing humans all the time)
My trick nowadays is to put some feed out in the open for the yardbirds and rodents so they come out to
the open area to feed (if they dare
Still working on a good shot to post up
I don't believe Tony lives in the UK? - a Mod
Yet another superb raptor image. I agree with Tom's comments here.
Best wishes
Phil
As long as baiting does not create too much dependancy and you do not change the natural diet of the subject species, you should be able to use this as a method to get shots of certain behavior. Live baiting can be done in controlled situations where the prey species is not put under too much stress and you can uarranty a swift kill by the subject species.
Rob
Raptors in the snow are my favorite!!!
Tony B.
I was just clarifying such to indicate that you may not be covered by the same laws as us.
I didn't know there were laws for baiting actually...