Posted by Paul West on February 13, 2007 at 3:36 PM
I have just been advised about a Wildlife Photography degree course based locally.
I am in the process of gathering more information about the degree course. But would like to know from you guys, if other people have completed a degree course and what your thoughts would be on trying to combine my full time job and part time education in the way of the degree?
More importantly would the degree help out with my future part time occupation of Wildlife photography.
Thanks
Paul
Posted by Alice Scoggins on February 13, 2007 at 5:59 PM
I guess it depends on what the degree offers exactly. It is mainly a basic photography course? Does it teach you how to run a photography business? I would get the details first and see if it would help you with your goals. I actually completed the New York Institute of Photography course. I was brand new to photography, and could not find a local class. It was a good course, providing a lot of materials and a wide range of photography subjects. But it was probably overpriced for what I gained from it. If your goal is to shoot part time just to have fun, you may just need a basic photography course. The best way to learn is to shoot, and shoot, and shoot some more (and of course post on NPN for feedback! ).
I'd believe in the program and its merit if it was combined somehow with the school's wildlife biology department, much as our daughter got an equine management degree (business degree with an equine science minor, a 5-year program). A link with the wildlife department would provide very useful bio background, while (hopefully) the photography side would get past "this is a shutter release" and delve into how to use the photos. Anything short of those criteria would make me very suspicious about return on your investment.
Posted by Jasper Doest on February 14, 2007 at 3:18 AM
I would honestly say that I would save the money for equipment/travelling or other photographic purposes than education.....you learn wildlife photography while spending time in the field....perhaps you could join some workshops....
I'm working as a full-time nature photographer and learned most things through:
- NPN
- looking at images, questioning myself why it works and why not and trying to reflect that to my personal work
- being out in the field
- talking to other photographers
- reading books
- being out in the field
- joining a couple of very useful workshops
- did I already mention being out in the field? ;-)
That proved to me to be very useful. And the business side of the job....well.... it is just as important...but again there is some good literature about that available. Build a good portfolio, with good quality rather than quantity. Good luck!
Posted by Cliff Beittel on February 14, 2007 at 7:59 AM
. . . would the degree help out with my future part time occupation of Wildlife photography . . .
The idea that wildlife photography is an occupation, i.e., that you'll be sending out resumes listing your qualifications in order to be hired, is wrong. It's an entrepreneurial activity for which a degree is, IMHO, close to meaningless. In addition, margins in wildlife photography are so thin that four years of tuition is hard to justify. Divide four years of tuition by $150 or so to see how many images you'll need to sell just to cover your costs.
Posted by Dan Borzynski on February 14, 2007 at 12:33 PM
It would seem to me that unless you can go in self-supported, you would probably be better off with a different degree. Wildlife photography, as a career, is going to be expensive. Equipment, travel, business expenses, and little things like food, clothing, shelter, transportation when you are not shooting. This may be a great degree, but it won't lead to a job. You have to make it yourself. Barring a massive (and massively bizzare) shift in the market, you never see an ad saying "Wildlife photographer needed, degree required".
Now, that is not to say that a photography degree, of any sort, is not going to be of use. Learning the basics and the technicals certainly won't hurt, plus it might be easier to find a job to pay for the first paragraph, until the nature photography becomes self-sufficient.
But other paths may be just as useful: biology, for subject knowledge and contacts (take advantage of those professors!). Accounting, marketing - you will be running a business! Computer science or web programming - You'll need to promote your work on the web and others will pay you to do the same. Philosophy - it is always good to be able to talk to someone about something other than the wonders of f-16 on the latest Canon 1Ds Mark 47. And from personal experience, what happens if you finish and realize that this is not what you want to do?
As Cliff rightly points out, nature photography is not an occupation. It is a way of life AND a business. The first is easy. The second is far, far harder.
Posted by John W. Wall on February 14, 2007 at 3:47 PM
What's the name of the school?
Posted by Rod Barbee on February 14, 2007 at 5:29 PM
I think Dan has it right. If you want you make an occupation out of your wildlife photography, you're probably better off with a business/marketing degree.
I wish I would have gotten that advice 10 years ago....
Posted by chickadee on February 14, 2007 at 9:26 PM
Hi Paul, I have completed the first year and am taking a year out/ not returning unsure as yet. (long story)
There are good points and bad points as with anything in life!
They change the course every year as it is guided by the students so it will be hard for you to pin point any structure but this website may help, http://www.adrianwinter.clara.net/home.htm
It’s a past students work and will give you some idea. If you are interested I might be able to put you in touch with a second year student, just let me know(+email add) and I will have a word with them.
I know that I don’t need to comment on the college as they are very good at marketing so you already know all about the benefits.
Good luck with your choice !
Posted by Paul West on February 15, 2007 at 8:07 AM
To all who replied, thank you very much for all the advise you have posted. I will take into consideration all the comments and let you now what the outcome will be in the near future.
I am particularly grateful to Chickadee for the comments and the contact details of Adrian Winter.
This is my first post on the website and I was pleaseantly surprised with the response, thank you again. I will may be try and post some of my photos for comment.
Chickadee, If you could email me at westpm08@btopenworld.com thanks would be great.
Thanks
Paul
Thanks
Paul
Posted by chickadee on February 16, 2007 at 5:30 PM
Hi Paul,
I posted this as it may be of use to someone else and you may get some more feedback to help you.
It’s a hard question to answer because everyone has their own reasons for doing this. If you have got your heart set on doing a photography degree and you are interested in wildlife (they also have just photography) then without question YES, YES, YES do it. Its an amazing college, I have never had teachers like that before, they are all so passionate about the subjects that they teach they truly eat, sleep and breath it. You will get to meet this country’s top photographers, it is well equipped with studio set ups and camera gear to try out so you can try before you buy or just use while there, great library, the trips are also very enticing and the degree will come from one of the top ten universities’.
Downside is sadly they aren’t very well organized……..um yep that’s about it.Oh and the money.
I agree with the other comments on the consideration for your future side. For me I have learnt more from the naturephtographers.net website than I have at the college but then I was not able to attend much and a degree is about being guided you do the learning yourself so without the guidance it takes dedication which not everyone has. Also the trips for example the first field trip its to the farne islands which the UK group at NPN had a trip to one of the farne islands last year anyway, so in a way you can gain similar experiences without the course. I don’t know how long you have been looking at this site but if you keep an eye on the UK section they meet up around your area quite a lot, they seem nice enough. I highly recommend reading through this section as I have learnt a huge amount of tips and the book reviews are great as they are not generally available on the shelves but you can obtain them off Amazon.
The working full/part time. I realize they say it’s a part time course but that’s the hours that they teach you not how much work you are expected to do! The first year of the course you have to pass and none of the marks go towards your degree grade so if you already have a stock of photographs (and you already know some of the projects from Adrians website) then it may if you work hard be possible to continue working full time. But the purpose of the projects is to allow your photographic ability to grow with feedback. Also if this is possible you will have other students saying they are going to Scotland for the weekend (its actually 3 ½ or 4 days as they gig it so you have the option of going away) and do you want to go. There was at least one with a part time job but I don’t know how they coped sorry all I can say is it is hard to have to miss out on things you would love to experience.
As I am sure you are already aware every day is an open day at Blackpool, we had a potential student come and sit in on one of our lectures I would highly recommend this that way you can see if the course is what you are expecting, meet some of the other students, they have photographs all over the college that are amazing, they should show you all the studio set ups and things. Will email you names+numbers
Posted by chickadee on February 16, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Hi Paul,
I posted this as it may be of use to someone else and you may get some more feedback to help you.
It’s a hard question to answer because everyone has their own reasons for doing this. If you have got your heart set on doing a photography degree and you are interested in wildlife (they also have just photography) then without question YES, YES, YES do it. Its an amazing college, I have never had teachers like that before, they are all so passionate about the subjects that they teach they truly eat, sleep and breath it. You will get to meet this country’s top photographers, it is well equipped with studio set ups and camera gear to try out so you can try before you buy or just use while there, great library, the trips are also very enticing and the degree will come from one of the top ten universities’.
Downside is sadly they aren’t very well organized……..um yep that’s about it.Oh and the money.
I agree with the other comments on the consideration for your future side. For me I have learnt more from the naturephtographers.net website than I have at the college but then I was not able to attend much and a degree is about being guided you do the learning yourself so without the guidance it takes dedication which not everyone has. Also the trips for example the first field trip its to the farne islands which the UK group at NPN had a trip to one of the farne islands last year anyway, so in a way you can gain similar experiences without the course. I don’t know how long you have been looking at this site but if you keep an eye on the UK section they meet up around your area quite a lot, they seem nice enough. I highly recommend reading through this section as I have learnt a huge amount of tips and the book reviews are great as they are not generally available on the shelves but you can obtain them off Amazon.
The working full/part time. I realize they say it’s a part time course but that’s the hours that they teach you not how much work you are expected to do! The first year of the course you have to pass and none of the marks go towards your degree grade so if you already have a stock of photographs (and you already know some of the projects from Adrians website) then it may if you work hard be possible to continue working full time. But the purpose of the projects is to allow your photographic ability to grow with feedback. Also if this is possible you will have other students saying they are going to Scotland for the weekend (its actually 3 ½ or 4 days as they gig it so you have the option of going away) and do you want to go. There was at least one with a part time job but I don’t know how they coped sorry all I can say is it is hard to have to miss out on things you would love to experience.
As I am sure you are already aware every day is an open day at Blackpool, we had a potential student come and sit in on one of our lectures I would highly recommend this that way you can see if the course is what you are expecting, meet some of the other students, they have photographs all over the college that are amazing, they should show you all the studio set ups and things. Will email you names+numbers
Posted by chickadee on February 16, 2007 at 5:32 PM
Hi Paul,
I posted this as it may be of use to someone else and you may get some more feedback to help you.
It’s a hard question to answer because everyone has their own reasons for doing this. If you have got your heart set on doing a photography degree and you are interested in wildlife (they also have just photography) then without question YES, YES, YES do it. Its an amazing college, I have never had teachers like that before, they are all so passionate about the subjects that they teach they truly eat, sleep and breath it. You will get to meet this country’s top photographers, it is well equipped with studio set ups and camera gear to try out so you can try before you buy or just use while there, great library, the trips are also very enticing and the degree will come from one of the top ten universities’.
Downside is sadly they aren’t very well organized……..um yep that’s about it.Oh and the money.
I agree with the other comments on the consideration for your future side. For me I have learnt more from the naturephtographers.net website than I have at the college but then I was not able to attend much and a degree is about being guided you do the learning yourself so without the guidance it takes dedication which not everyone has. Also the trips for example the first field trip its to the farne islands which the UK group at NPN had a trip to one of the farne islands last year anyway, so in a way you can gain similar experiences without the course. I don’t know how long you have been looking at this site but if you keep an eye on the UK section they meet up around your area quite a lot, they seem nice enough. I highly recommend reading through this section as I have learnt a huge amount of tips and the book reviews are great as they are not generally available on the shelves but you can obtain them off Amazon.
The working full/part time. I realize they say it’s a part time course but that’s the hours that they teach you not how much work you are expected to do! The first year of the course you have to pass and none of the marks go towards your degree grade so if you already have a stock of photographs (and you already know some of the projects from Adrians website) then it may if you work hard be possible to continue working full time. But the purpose of the projects is to allow your photographic ability to grow with feedback. Also if this is possible you will have other students saying they are going to Scotland for the weekend (its actually 3 ½ or 4 days as they gig it so you have the option of going away) and do you want to go. There was at least one with a part time job but I don’t know how they coped sorry all I can say is it is hard to have to miss out on things you would love to experience.
As I am sure you are already aware every day is an open day at Blackpool, we had a potential student come and sit in on one of our lectures I would highly recommend this that way you can see if the course is what you are expecting, meet some of the other students, they have photographs all over the college that are amazing, they should show you all the studio set ups and things. Will email you names+numbers
Discussion
13 repliesI am in the process of gathering more information about the degree course. But would like to know from you guys, if other people have completed a degree course and what your thoughts would be on trying to combine my full time job and part time education in the way of the degree?
More importantly would the degree help out with my future part time occupation of Wildlife photography.
Thanks
Paul
I'm working as a full-time nature photographer and learned most things through:
- NPN
- looking at images, questioning myself why it works and why not and trying to reflect that to my personal work
- being out in the field
- talking to other photographers
- reading books
- being out in the field
- joining a couple of very useful workshops
- did I already mention being out in the field? ;-)
That proved to me to be very useful. And the business side of the job....well.... it is just as important...but again there is some good literature about that available. Build a good portfolio, with good quality rather than quantity. Good luck!
The idea that wildlife photography is an occupation, i.e., that you'll be sending out resumes listing your qualifications in order to be hired, is wrong. It's an entrepreneurial activity for which a degree is, IMHO, close to meaningless. In addition, margins in wildlife photography are so thin that four years of tuition is hard to justify. Divide four years of tuition by $150 or so to see how many images you'll need to sell just to cover your costs.
Now, that is not to say that a photography degree, of any sort, is not going to be of use. Learning the basics and the technicals certainly won't hurt, plus it might be easier to find a job to pay for the first paragraph, until the nature photography becomes self-sufficient.
But other paths may be just as useful: biology, for subject knowledge and contacts (take advantage of those professors!). Accounting, marketing - you will be running a business! Computer science or web programming - You'll need to promote your work on the web and others will pay you to do the same. Philosophy - it is always good to be able to talk to someone about something other than the wonders of f-16 on the latest Canon 1Ds Mark 47. And from personal experience, what happens if you finish and realize that this is not what you want to do?
As Cliff rightly points out, nature photography is not an occupation. It is a way of life AND a business. The first is easy. The second is far, far harder.
I wish I would have gotten that advice 10 years ago....
There are good points and bad points as with anything in life!
They change the course every year as it is guided by the students so it will be hard for you to pin point any structure but this website may help, http://www.adrianwinter.clara.net/home.htm
It’s a past students work and will give you some idea. If you are interested I might be able to put you in touch with a second year student, just let me know(+email add) and I will have a word with them.
I know that I don’t need to comment on the college as they are very good at marketing so you already know all about the benefits.
Good luck with your choice !
I am particularly grateful to Chickadee for the comments and the contact details of Adrian Winter.
This is my first post on the website and I was pleaseantly surprised with the response, thank you again. I will may be try and post some of my photos for comment.
Chickadee, If you could email me at westpm08@btopenworld.com thanks would be great.
Thanks
Paul
Thanks
Paul
I posted this as it may be of use to someone else and you may get some more feedback to help you.
It’s a hard question to answer because everyone has their own reasons for doing this. If you have got your heart set on doing a photography degree and you are interested in wildlife (they also have just photography) then without question YES, YES, YES do it. Its an amazing college, I have never had teachers like that before, they are all so passionate about the subjects that they teach they truly eat, sleep and breath it. You will get to meet this country’s top photographers, it is well equipped with studio set ups and camera gear to try out so you can try before you buy or just use while there, great library, the trips are also very enticing and the degree will come from one of the top ten universities’.
Downside is sadly they aren’t very well organized……..um yep that’s about it.Oh and the money.
I agree with the other comments on the consideration for your future side. For me I have learnt more from the naturephtographers.net website than I have at the college but then I was not able to attend much and a degree is about being guided you do the learning yourself so without the guidance it takes dedication which not everyone has. Also the trips for example the first field trip its to the farne islands which the UK group at NPN had a trip to one of the farne islands last year anyway, so in a way you can gain similar experiences without the course. I don’t know how long you have been looking at this site but if you keep an eye on the UK section they meet up around your area quite a lot, they seem nice enough. I highly recommend reading through this section as I have learnt a huge amount of tips and the book reviews are great as they are not generally available on the shelves but you can obtain them off Amazon.
The working full/part time. I realize they say it’s a part time course but that’s the hours that they teach you not how much work you are expected to do! The first year of the course you have to pass and none of the marks go towards your degree grade so if you already have a stock of photographs (and you already know some of the projects from Adrians website) then it may if you work hard be possible to continue working full time. But the purpose of the projects is to allow your photographic ability to grow with feedback. Also if this is possible you will have other students saying they are going to Scotland for the weekend (its actually 3 ½ or 4 days as they gig it so you have the option of going away) and do you want to go. There was at least one with a part time job but I don’t know how they coped sorry all I can say is it is hard to have to miss out on things you would love to experience.
As I am sure you are already aware every day is an open day at Blackpool, we had a potential student come and sit in on one of our lectures I would highly recommend this that way you can see if the course is what you are expecting, meet some of the other students, they have photographs all over the college that are amazing, they should show you all the studio set ups and things. Will email you names+numbers
I posted this as it may be of use to someone else and you may get some more feedback to help you.
It’s a hard question to answer because everyone has their own reasons for doing this. If you have got your heart set on doing a photography degree and you are interested in wildlife (they also have just photography) then without question YES, YES, YES do it. Its an amazing college, I have never had teachers like that before, they are all so passionate about the subjects that they teach they truly eat, sleep and breath it. You will get to meet this country’s top photographers, it is well equipped with studio set ups and camera gear to try out so you can try before you buy or just use while there, great library, the trips are also very enticing and the degree will come from one of the top ten universities’.
Downside is sadly they aren’t very well organized……..um yep that’s about it.Oh and the money.
I agree with the other comments on the consideration for your future side. For me I have learnt more from the naturephtographers.net website than I have at the college but then I was not able to attend much and a degree is about being guided you do the learning yourself so without the guidance it takes dedication which not everyone has. Also the trips for example the first field trip its to the farne islands which the UK group at NPN had a trip to one of the farne islands last year anyway, so in a way you can gain similar experiences without the course. I don’t know how long you have been looking at this site but if you keep an eye on the UK section they meet up around your area quite a lot, they seem nice enough. I highly recommend reading through this section as I have learnt a huge amount of tips and the book reviews are great as they are not generally available on the shelves but you can obtain them off Amazon.
The working full/part time. I realize they say it’s a part time course but that’s the hours that they teach you not how much work you are expected to do! The first year of the course you have to pass and none of the marks go towards your degree grade so if you already have a stock of photographs (and you already know some of the projects from Adrians website) then it may if you work hard be possible to continue working full time. But the purpose of the projects is to allow your photographic ability to grow with feedback. Also if this is possible you will have other students saying they are going to Scotland for the weekend (its actually 3 ½ or 4 days as they gig it so you have the option of going away) and do you want to go. There was at least one with a part time job but I don’t know how they coped sorry all I can say is it is hard to have to miss out on things you would love to experience.
As I am sure you are already aware every day is an open day at Blackpool, we had a potential student come and sit in on one of our lectures I would highly recommend this that way you can see if the course is what you are expecting, meet some of the other students, they have photographs all over the college that are amazing, they should show you all the studio set ups and things. Will email you names+numbers
I posted this as it may be of use to someone else and you may get some more feedback to help you.
It’s a hard question to answer because everyone has their own reasons for doing this. If you have got your heart set on doing a photography degree and you are interested in wildlife (they also have just photography) then without question YES, YES, YES do it. Its an amazing college, I have never had teachers like that before, they are all so passionate about the subjects that they teach they truly eat, sleep and breath it. You will get to meet this country’s top photographers, it is well equipped with studio set ups and camera gear to try out so you can try before you buy or just use while there, great library, the trips are also very enticing and the degree will come from one of the top ten universities’.
Downside is sadly they aren’t very well organized……..um yep that’s about it.Oh and the money.
I agree with the other comments on the consideration for your future side. For me I have learnt more from the naturephtographers.net website than I have at the college but then I was not able to attend much and a degree is about being guided you do the learning yourself so without the guidance it takes dedication which not everyone has. Also the trips for example the first field trip its to the farne islands which the UK group at NPN had a trip to one of the farne islands last year anyway, so in a way you can gain similar experiences without the course. I don’t know how long you have been looking at this site but if you keep an eye on the UK section they meet up around your area quite a lot, they seem nice enough. I highly recommend reading through this section as I have learnt a huge amount of tips and the book reviews are great as they are not generally available on the shelves but you can obtain them off Amazon.
The working full/part time. I realize they say it’s a part time course but that’s the hours that they teach you not how much work you are expected to do! The first year of the course you have to pass and none of the marks go towards your degree grade so if you already have a stock of photographs (and you already know some of the projects from Adrians website) then it may if you work hard be possible to continue working full time. But the purpose of the projects is to allow your photographic ability to grow with feedback. Also if this is possible you will have other students saying they are going to Scotland for the weekend (its actually 3 ½ or 4 days as they gig it so you have the option of going away) and do you want to go. There was at least one with a part time job but I don’t know how they coped sorry all I can say is it is hard to have to miss out on things you would love to experience.
As I am sure you are already aware every day is an open day at Blackpool, we had a potential student come and sit in on one of our lectures I would highly recommend this that way you can see if the course is what you are expecting, meet some of the other students, they have photographs all over the college that are amazing, they should show you all the studio set ups and things. Will email you names+numbers