Posted by David Prichard on February 13, 2007 at 5:56 PM
I have an hour of free flying time on a Cessna. In this location aerial haze can be quite bad in the summer due to the large amount of water in the many lakes surronding the area.
Not having had the opportunity to shoot cold weather aerial before I'd be interested in in the experiences of anybody that might have had the opportunity.
Does snow and ice also contribute to haze? Filtration etc.
The forecast is for sun and -25C on the ground.
Dave
Posted by Steve Foss on February 13, 2007 at 6:12 PM
I've shot from planes several times and, in general, clear days in winter seem to offer less haze than in summer. Altitude makes a big difference, too. If you're shooting from 500 feet you have a lot less to worry about than if you're up at 3,500. But if you're shooting landscapes from out the window, sometimes a little haze is a compelling thing. Most of my winter aerial shooting has been done over country with a mix of snow/ice and dark boreal forest, and I've just shot with center-weighted metering and found things to be great. If you're over almost total snow/ice, you should have no problems. Open water in very cold winters can also offer some steam shots, which can be quite nice.
I have not needed filters so far.
Also, if you have the chance to talk to your pilot in advance, see if the Cessna model you will be in allows for opening windows. I've had excellent luck shooting through the high-quality polycarbonate in Cirrus planes, but my experiences in Cessna planes is much worse, with lots of scratched up and milky windows. If you're in the starboard front seat, many Cessnas will allow a window to be slid or propped open. A good heavy mittten on the left hand under the lens and a lighter glove on the right hand should be OK. From the starboard side, your left hand will bear the brunt of the windchill generated by the plane's speed.
I don't know what your subjects will be, but I've shot moose with a 400mm from the backseat of a Cessna bouncing through turbulence, and about 10 percent of my images had a moose in them. Wide angle is just a lot easier to shoot from a small plane. Also, if you want to shoot a subject on the ground like a moose, wolf or anything like that, the first pass will be the least turbulent. If you circle for more shots, you're flying through your own prop wash, and each pass will get bouncier and bouncier unless you change altitude.
Vibration also is an issue. Resist the temptation to rest an arm, a lens or an elbow on the wall or seat of the plane, because that transmits a ton of vibration into your hands. While it may seem counterintuitive, it's best to rest nothing but your butt and your feet on the plane's surface while actually shooting.
Good luck, and have a blast!
Posted by Chris Ross on February 14, 2007 at 6:12 PM
Lens selection can also help, with fast lenses being favoured, shot wide open, you should be high enough that dof is not an issue, only stopping down enough to get away from wide open abberations and vignetting, to maximise shutter speed. Probably don't want to be too wide on your lens to avoid getting wings, wing struts in the images.
All my recent winter aerials have been from helicopters Dave, so wind was not the issue it might be from the Cessna. I'd limit lens and chip changes simply because you don't really want to do that in a slipstream without gloves.
As for lenses, I get the most use out of my 24-120VR. Wider creates more opportunity for parts of the plane to appear in the frame, while longer is problematic if there's turbulence or vibration.
Haze is variable with the temp, though less of a problem if your shots don't include the horizon. A bigger issue is the sun, specifically angle of illumination relative to your principal subject and shadow length. I'd decide which subject you wish most to photograph and the time of day that is best for that, then schedule your flight around that. In truth you might have the best luck on a bright overcast day, provided you weren't reaching out to the horizon.
I tried polarizers from a plane but gave up due to the circling patterns involved in flying. Less of a problem with helos because of the ability to hover.
If you can't fly with the door off the plane, beware of frost on the windows due to your breath. If the plane's heat is sufficient to prevent frost, allow sufficient time for the plane to warm up before shooting.
Posted by David Prichard on February 14, 2007 at 11:37 PM
Hank,
The Cessna crashed and the flight will be on a Turbo Beaver which can fly slower and lower. Hadn't decided on a lens yet. While scenics will be part of it, the main goal is to get shots of the transports running the ice road which had me thinking the 80-400 VR. Don't like to do lens changes in flight. It may be a matter of how low regs allow the pilot to go.
The ground temperatures are expected to be about -30C so the door stays on! Fortunately the Beaver has a sliding window, just have to remember the heavy mitts and a couple of hot packs!
Dave
Posted by Steve Foss on February 15, 2007 at 8:27 AM
Dave, I hope the Cessna didn't actually crash. That's always bad! A sliding window is a good thing to shoot out of. No need to prop it open. And you are right, elevation will determine lens choice to some degree. Any chance you can scare up a backup body to put a wide angle on? Good luck and have fun dipping your wings at the truck drivers.
Oh, and if the plane doesn't have a headphone/intercom system, don't forget earplugs. Those deHaviland Beavers are LOUD!
Sorry about the Cessna Dave, but happy to hear you've changed up to a Beaver. It's my favorite airplane. I can be pretty specific about the "geography" of shooting from one.
The placement of the wing strut, wing, wheel (or ski) and prop create a very narrow shooting window from the front seats. Anything wider than about 50mm equivalent will show bits of airplane with any shift from about a 45 degree angle from the path of the plane. Shooting from the next seat back on the passenger side places you adjacent to the rather large cargo/passenger door and provides excellent elbow room for shooting. On most of the models I'm acquainted with the top half of the window slides down about a foot and is roughly three feet wide, giving you excellent lateral movement. If you stay toward the front edge to shoot, you avoid most of the slip stream.
I'm assuming the plane will be equipped with an intercom system of headsets on cables for coms between the passengers and pilot. These plug in just above eye level along either side of the plane. For convenience and to avoid tangles between the cord and your camera gear, use the one intended for the front seat passenger rather the one actually intended for the next seat back, especially if you are right handed.
If you're the only passenger you should have lots of room for gear and changes, so strap your camera bag into the seat right next to you and behind the pilot. I have no qualms about lens changes in a Beaver. It's usually a bench style seat so you can shift around quite a bit, within the limits of your seat belt length of course. Speaking of seatbelts, the Beaver is likely equipped with a retractable shoulder strap that is attached to the fuselage next to the outlet jack for the headsets. Most of these have a separate attachment to the seatbelt. I'd surely have the shoulder strap attached for takeoff and landing, but disconnect it from the seatbelt and allow it to retract while you are actually shooting.
The Beaver flies slow enough that you should have lots of time (comparatively) to anticipate and set up your shots by watching ahead of you. My best luck is to frame the shot beforehand so the wing strut is just outside the frame, steady the camera in that position, then watch forward as you approach the shot. Use the strut as a visual marker, and only look through the viewfinder again as the edge of your shot starts to pass under the strut. This is actually a strategy for low elevation, relatively fast passes, but it's a useful habit for higher passes and especially for use of longer lenses.
As I imagine your subject matter it's easy to get wrapped up in low passes and frame filling shots. Don't forget to ask the pilot also to climb a ways so you can make the subject small in a broad landscape, using the ice road as a feature in the landscape. You'll probably have to ask the pilot to lift the right wing for the shot to help you clear up the horizon, but it should provide a really neat shot to accompany your close stuff.
Sounds like great fun! I'm jealous of anyone who gets to shoot from a Beaver!
Posted by David Prichard on February 16, 2007 at 8:22 PM
Hank,
Forecast here has just changed to some overcast for the weekend! Much to the delight of my wife and a friend who aren't available for the flight this weekend. I can only hope the cold weather stays until the following weekend for clear skies.
Used to be flown in an Ontario forestry Beaver when I worked for them many years ago. The pilot was an ex RAF Spitfire pilot. He would come so close to the ground water bombing he would knock the fire crews off their feet. Unfortunately I doubt our pilot will have his skill.
Thanks for the tips.
Dave
Posted by Kent Staubus on February 18, 2007 at 11:24 PM
I've been taking shots of an immense railroad bridge in my region from a small plane over the past year. My advice is similar to the above. Have as little of your body in contact with the plane as possible. I used a neckstrap around the camera so there's no chance it'll get blown out of my hands. I also wear very robust gloves! My best shots were made with the fastest glass I had at the time--Nikons 50mm f1.8 and 80-200mm f2.8. I have the 80-400mm VR but I think the faster glass is more important than the VR since you are actually moving. Another thing I've learned, the longer the lens, the quicker you start getting airsick! I don't use filters at all from a plane. They are too hard to dial in as you move and I tend to get sick looking through the lens that long of a time. If you can't shoot through an open window, wear black gloves, black jacket, and black face mask to cut reflections. I've been using an overhead wing Cessna of some sort. It feels like I'm riding 1,000 ft. off the ground in a Mini Cooper though! Since I was trying to catch moving trains on the bridge, my subject seems to be very similar to yours. The trick is to make long oval circles around the track, er road. I've been using the same pilot for this and he's caught on to how to pace the slower trains with the much faster plane.
Kent in SD
Posted by Ian Beatty on February 27, 2007 at 8:10 PM
Hey David
While it's sad to hear about the Cessna crashing a turbo Beaver would be IDEAL to shoot from (sounds like you're dealing with ASW?). The turbine is much smoother than the piston version. Also, on a turbo Beaver the cockpit is a couple feet farther forward from the leading edge of the wing than the piston, which should give you a lot more room to maneuver.
Discussion
9 repliesNot having had the opportunity to shoot cold weather aerial before I'd be interested in in the experiences of anybody that might have had the opportunity.
Does snow and ice also contribute to haze? Filtration etc.
The forecast is for sun and -25C on the ground.
Dave
I have not needed filters so far.
Also, if you have the chance to talk to your pilot in advance, see if the Cessna model you will be in allows for opening windows. I've had excellent luck shooting through the high-quality polycarbonate in Cirrus planes, but my experiences in Cessna planes is much worse, with lots of scratched up and milky windows. If you're in the starboard front seat, many Cessnas will allow a window to be slid or propped open. A good heavy mittten on the left hand under the lens and a lighter glove on the right hand should be OK. From the starboard side, your left hand will bear the brunt of the windchill generated by the plane's speed.
I don't know what your subjects will be, but I've shot moose with a 400mm from the backseat of a Cessna bouncing through turbulence, and about 10 percent of my images had a moose in them. Wide angle is just a lot easier to shoot from a small plane. Also, if you want to shoot a subject on the ground like a moose, wolf or anything like that, the first pass will be the least turbulent. If you circle for more shots, you're flying through your own prop wash, and each pass will get bouncier and bouncier unless you change altitude.
Vibration also is an issue. Resist the temptation to rest an arm, a lens or an elbow on the wall or seat of the plane, because that transmits a ton of vibration into your hands. While it may seem counterintuitive, it's best to rest nothing but your butt and your feet on the plane's surface while actually shooting.
Good luck, and have a blast!
As for lenses, I get the most use out of my 24-120VR. Wider creates more opportunity for parts of the plane to appear in the frame, while longer is problematic if there's turbulence or vibration.
Haze is variable with the temp, though less of a problem if your shots don't include the horizon. A bigger issue is the sun, specifically angle of illumination relative to your principal subject and shadow length. I'd decide which subject you wish most to photograph and the time of day that is best for that, then schedule your flight around that. In truth you might have the best luck on a bright overcast day, provided you weren't reaching out to the horizon.
I tried polarizers from a plane but gave up due to the circling patterns involved in flying. Less of a problem with helos because of the ability to hover.
If you can't fly with the door off the plane, beware of frost on the windows due to your breath. If the plane's heat is sufficient to prevent frost, allow sufficient time for the plane to warm up before shooting.
The Cessna crashed and the flight will be on a Turbo Beaver which can fly slower and lower. Hadn't decided on a lens yet. While scenics will be part of it, the main goal is to get shots of the transports running the ice road which had me thinking the 80-400 VR. Don't like to do lens changes in flight. It may be a matter of how low regs allow the pilot to go.
The ground temperatures are expected to be about -30C so the door stays on! Fortunately the Beaver has a sliding window, just have to remember the heavy mitts and a couple of hot packs!
Dave
Oh, and if the plane doesn't have a headphone/intercom system, don't forget earplugs. Those deHaviland Beavers are LOUD!
The placement of the wing strut, wing, wheel (or ski) and prop create a very narrow shooting window from the front seats. Anything wider than about 50mm equivalent will show bits of airplane with any shift from about a 45 degree angle from the path of the plane. Shooting from the next seat back on the passenger side places you adjacent to the rather large cargo/passenger door and provides excellent elbow room for shooting. On most of the models I'm acquainted with the top half of the window slides down about a foot and is roughly three feet wide, giving you excellent lateral movement. If you stay toward the front edge to shoot, you avoid most of the slip stream.
I'm assuming the plane will be equipped with an intercom system of headsets on cables for coms between the passengers and pilot. These plug in just above eye level along either side of the plane. For convenience and to avoid tangles between the cord and your camera gear, use the one intended for the front seat passenger rather the one actually intended for the next seat back, especially if you are right handed.
If you're the only passenger you should have lots of room for gear and changes, so strap your camera bag into the seat right next to you and behind the pilot. I have no qualms about lens changes in a Beaver. It's usually a bench style seat so you can shift around quite a bit, within the limits of your seat belt length of course. Speaking of seatbelts, the Beaver is likely equipped with a retractable shoulder strap that is attached to the fuselage next to the outlet jack for the headsets. Most of these have a separate attachment to the seatbelt. I'd surely have the shoulder strap attached for takeoff and landing, but disconnect it from the seatbelt and allow it to retract while you are actually shooting.
The Beaver flies slow enough that you should have lots of time (comparatively) to anticipate and set up your shots by watching ahead of you. My best luck is to frame the shot beforehand so the wing strut is just outside the frame, steady the camera in that position, then watch forward as you approach the shot. Use the strut as a visual marker, and only look through the viewfinder again as the edge of your shot starts to pass under the strut. This is actually a strategy for low elevation, relatively fast passes, but it's a useful habit for higher passes and especially for use of longer lenses.
As I imagine your subject matter it's easy to get wrapped up in low passes and frame filling shots. Don't forget to ask the pilot also to climb a ways so you can make the subject small in a broad landscape, using the ice road as a feature in the landscape. You'll probably have to ask the pilot to lift the right wing for the shot to help you clear up the horizon, but it should provide a really neat shot to accompany your close stuff.
Sounds like great fun! I'm jealous of anyone who gets to shoot from a Beaver!
Forecast here has just changed to some overcast for the weekend!
Used to be flown in an Ontario forestry Beaver when I worked for them many years ago. The pilot was an ex RAF Spitfire pilot. He would come so close to the ground water bombing he would knock the fire crews off their feet. Unfortunately I doubt our pilot will have his skill.
Thanks for the tips.
Dave
Kent in SD
While it's sad to hear about the Cessna crashing a turbo Beaver would be IDEAL to shoot from (sounds like you're dealing with ASW?). The turbine is much smoother than the piston version. Also, on a turbo Beaver the cockpit is a couple feet farther forward from the leading edge of the wing than the piston, which should give you a lot more room to maneuver.