Posted by Pat Theis on February 25, 2007 at 12:06 PM
Hello All,
I'm going to be in my first show in June. It's a very small show that will run for a month at my town's local art center.
They have suggested that in addition to having my prints mounted and framed on the wall, that I also have some additional 8 x 10 prints available for sale. Prints by other photographers sell for $25 here. (that is for the unmounted print)
My question is, is it better to get the prints done by a photo shop or online vs getting a decent printer?
If anyone has prints done online, could you recommend any sites?
If getting my own printer is the way to go, any recomendations? My budget is $300. So if anything decent is out of my price range now, you won't hurt my feelings in saying so.
It will depend a lot on how many you sell and whether or not you will continue to print and sell after the show. With $25 a pop being the standard in the local market, you will certainly have more of a margin if you print your own, but only in the end. But not if the printer will only be used to produce prints for that one event. When you factor in the cost of the printer, all the ink and paper you are going to go through learning to do it and adjusting individual photos, your cost/print will be astronomical if you don't spread that investment out over a long period of time through additional print sales.
Posted by Kent Staubus on February 25, 2007 at 12:45 PM
I have elected to use a local service to make my prints. It is almost as convenient and far cheaper than doing them at home. The price of the ink is the killer.
Kent in SD
Posted by Bill Chambers on February 25, 2007 at 2:22 PM
First of all, congrats on your first show - that's great!! I wish you lots of success.
I think I would ask the local artists at the art center where they get theirs printed. I certainly don't keep up with printer prices but I would be somewhat surprised if you could get one you'd be happy with for $300, unless you perhaps could find a good used one. Then of course you'd still have to buy paper, fight the learning curve to get prints you're happy with, and re-supply the ink on what seems like a constant basis.
Posted by Genny K. on February 25, 2007 at 2:34 PM
I agree with the other comments - it all depends! How big are the prints that you will be displaying? You can get a decent printer to do 8x10s, but if you want to go bigger than that, the price goes up. As Bill mentioned, the learning curve on a printer can be substantial. I would suggest having someone else do your printing this time, but if you are going to continue photography and prints, then get your own, and give yourself plenty of time to buy one and play with it until you're happy with the prints, AND you have a handle on what paper you like best, etc. My experience is that it's stressful enough just trying to get the prints matted, framed, and everything else that goes into being in a show. Don't add to it by trying to do it with a brand new printer. BTW, congrats on you first show. Now you're addicted!
Given your time frame and budget, I would certainly have a service bureau, or photographer friend who owns a good printer make the prints for you.
The prints you are describing are often called 'bin work'. When I set up for bin work I sign the print, mat it using an inexpensive mat and then place it in a properly sized plastic bag along with a business card. This a bit more expensive than a raw print, but the presentation looks clean and professional. It also protects the print from damage. You can charge a bit more to cover the additional costs.
Good luck with your show!
-PB
I
Posted by Liz Masoner on February 25, 2007 at 5:23 PM
If you go with an online place to print them as you mentioned - Mpix.com may work for you. They've printed a lot for me and done really well. And at $1.99 for an 8x10 it won't break the bank.
One thing worth mentioning is that having your own printer will give you a lot more control over the look of your prints. The flip side is that you will also need to learn some processing/printing skills and may need to invest in imaging software and monitor calibration to get the most out of it.
I would suggest that this is definitely the way to go if you see yourself progressing in this direction but if you're not at a point where you want this level of commitment, a good(!) service bureau is probably the way to go.
Guy
Posted by Steve Foss on February 25, 2007 at 7:41 PM
I've done it with my own printer for three years, and recently switched to White House Custom Color (www.whcc.com) for all my work, except for that which I need done for a local client on a moment's notice and the ones, as Guy noted, where exacting control needs to remain in my own hands. Why? It's cheaper in the long run. WHCC charges $2 for an 8x10 with free two-day shipping on orders of $12 or more, and I did a cost analysis that showed it was almost even-Steven as far as investment, with sending them to WHCC coming in just a bit cheaper than doing my own. Partly that's because I figure in the time I spend slaving over the printer, and I bill my time pretty high. I've also heard very good things about Mpix.
After spending roughly $500 on the Epson R1800, and another $300 for the Spyder calibration equipment, I'm still not happy with the results of my printing. Seems like the colors displayed on the monitor (Sony P234) never quite match the printed output. I think if I had to do it all over again I would use a service. It is convenient though, and I have been able to find less expensive ink cartridges at clickinks.com. If you buy in bulk it is less than half the price and the quality seems to be as good as the original Epson inks.
It's worth signing back on to pont out that not all labs or services are created equally, in spite of often using the same machines and consumables. We farm out all the printing for our studio, as we have done for the last 15 years while mostly printing our own "nature" prints. Won't go into the reasons why, because there's a more important point to consider.
When using a lab or service, it all boils down to personal relations. How are they to deal with when problems appear?
Our long-time lab went out of business a couple of years ago, and we had to make an emergency switch. Initially we simply followed the personnel to their new employer. Standards weren't as high there and our old friends quit over the problems, which got even worse once they were gone. We were thrown into the position of searching hard for a new lab. We're not a huge operation by any means, but felt our $50k+ a year print orders did qualify us for pretty responsive and personal service.
We sent out half a dozen sample files to something like ten different labs (without telling them anything about the size of our annual purchases) and compared results. About half got them right and half didn't, as expected. We didn't give up on the ones with problems right away, rather we pursued the problems over the phone. That was the most important test.
In the end we picked one of the labs that didn't do as good a job at first simply because of their responsiveness and willingness to work with us to sort out problems. Turns out that it was merely a case of our calibration not agreeing with theirs. Sadly (and educationally) the lab that had done the best job initially just got lucky on that particular order. We went ahead and placed a "real" order with them, but results were terrible while resolution turned into a process of breeding elephants (It's accomplished with much trumpeting and crashing about, but the results take forever to arrive).
The point of that long winded diatribe is that sending your files off to a lab might or might not be easier, especially if there's a time crunch and problems occur. Follow any advice you can find in picking a lab, but allow plenty of time and be prepared to problem solve before your final prints are in hand. The ease and cheer with which problems are solved should be one of your major criteria when settling on a lab or service for long-term use.
In your price range, the Epson R800 will fit your immediate needs and is slightly higher than $300 MSRP. I would think that you could find it for $300 from someone. I have the bigger R1800 and have been happy with the output, though there are occasional problems. For instance I've found a range of reddish browns that exceed the color range of the printer and turn into a muddy blob of color.
I agree about the cost of doing it yourself vs. the lab. Certainly in the lab, you don't have to deal with the cost of buying the printer. The cost of printing at home is so expensive when you include inks and papers, that the lab is very competitive. I do like the ability to know immediately how the print will turn out though.
Thank you all very much for your comments. I'm looking into both the online companies mentioned as well as having something like the Epson R800 as a last minute back up printer.
What prompted my question in the first place was when I was getting a print done at a place local, when enlarging it to 8x10 they cropped out an important part of the picture. Oops!
Thank you for the congratulations! I'm very nervous but excited as well.
Discussion
12 repliesI'm going to be in my first show in June. It's a very small show that will run for a month at my town's local art center.
They have suggested that in addition to having my prints mounted and framed on the wall, that I also have some additional 8 x 10 prints available for sale. Prints by other photographers sell for $25 here. (that is for the unmounted print)
My question is, is it better to get the prints done by a photo shop or online vs getting a decent printer?
If anyone has prints done online, could you recommend any sites?
If getting my own printer is the way to go, any recomendations? My budget is $300. So if anything decent is out of my price range now, you won't hurt my feelings in saying so.
Thank you for any suggestions you may have!
Kent in SD
I think I would ask the local artists at the art center where they get theirs printed. I certainly don't keep up with printer prices but I would be somewhat surprised if you could get one you'd be happy with for $300, unless you perhaps could find a good used one. Then of course you'd still have to buy paper, fight the learning curve to get prints you're happy with, and re-supply the ink on what seems like a constant basis.
Given your time frame and budget, I would certainly have a service bureau, or photographer friend who owns a good printer make the prints for you.
The prints you are describing are often called 'bin work'. When I set up for bin work I sign the print, mat it using an inexpensive mat and then place it in a properly sized plastic bag along with a business card. This a bit more expensive than a raw print, but the presentation looks clean and professional. It also protects the print from damage. You can charge a bit more to cover the additional costs.
Good luck with your show!
-PB
I
I would suggest that this is definitely the way to go if you see yourself progressing in this direction but if you're not at a point where you want this level of commitment, a good(!) service bureau is probably the way to go.
Guy
When using a lab or service, it all boils down to personal relations. How are they to deal with when problems appear?
Our long-time lab went out of business a couple of years ago, and we had to make an emergency switch. Initially we simply followed the personnel to their new employer. Standards weren't as high there and our old friends quit over the problems, which got even worse once they were gone. We were thrown into the position of searching hard for a new lab. We're not a huge operation by any means, but felt our $50k+ a year print orders did qualify us for pretty responsive and personal service.
We sent out half a dozen sample files to something like ten different labs (without telling them anything about the size of our annual purchases) and compared results. About half got them right and half didn't, as expected. We didn't give up on the ones with problems right away, rather we pursued the problems over the phone. That was the most important test.
In the end we picked one of the labs that didn't do as good a job at first simply because of their responsiveness and willingness to work with us to sort out problems. Turns out that it was merely a case of our calibration not agreeing with theirs. Sadly (and educationally) the lab that had done the best job initially just got lucky on that particular order. We went ahead and placed a "real" order with them, but results were terrible while resolution turned into a process of breeding elephants (It's accomplished with much trumpeting and crashing about, but the results take forever to arrive).
The point of that long winded diatribe is that sending your files off to a lab might or might not be easier, especially if there's a time crunch and problems occur. Follow any advice you can find in picking a lab, but allow plenty of time and be prepared to problem solve before your final prints are in hand. The ease and cheer with which problems are solved should be one of your major criteria when settling on a lab or service for long-term use.
I agree about the cost of doing it yourself vs. the lab. Certainly in the lab, you don't have to deal with the cost of buying the printer. The cost of printing at home is so expensive when you include inks and papers, that the lab is very competitive. I do like the ability to know immediately how the print will turn out though.
What prompted my question in the first place was when I was getting a print done at a place local, when enlarging it to 8x10 they cropped out an important part of the picture. Oops!
Thank you for the congratulations! I'm very nervous but excited as well.
Thank you all again for your different comments.