I don't suppose this comes up very often in landscape photography, but I can see where it might in some locations. I was at Mesa Arch the weekend before last and there were only two of us who showed up early and attempted to scout a good composition location. Right before sunrise, a family showed up with their point-and-shoots and were also waiting for sunrise. They were very respectful of the serene scene and were even go so far as to whisper to each other.
Finally the sun popped over the mountains, and we all began shooting. After a couple of minutes, I hear an out-of-breath guy hiking up behind us (man I hope it was no one on this forum), and I briefly glance over to see an older guy with what appeared to be an expensive SLR trying to find a place to shoot.
He finally walks over behind the other early guy and asks if he can get a shot. The early guy, thinking he means shoot over his head says go ahead. Finally, it dawns on the early guy that late guy wants him to move. He asks, "You don't actually want me to move my camera?" Obviously, late guy wanted exactly that. Early guy then says,"You can't just set up right behind someone and expect them to move!" Late guy was beside himself and got rather peeved, but he moved off and tried something else. I looked over and just shook my head.
Meanwhile, I had left my original position and had set up again when late guy comes right up next to my tripod and positions his camera right next to mine and fires off a few shots. He was so much in my personal space that I had to wait for him to finish before I started shooting.
My question is, is there some sort of obligation or etiquette to share prime shooting spots with other photogs? I thought the guy was extraordinarily rude, but then again, I'm not a veteran shooter with experience in shooting popular locations.
Posted by Jon Leibowitz on March 28, 2007 at 1:25 AM
I had that happen to me while I was shooting sunrise at Maroon Bells. Obviously that is a very small space to get the "classic shot", but still. I woke up early so I could get there before everyone, and then the late people just show up and set up camp right next to you. One idiot actually was so close his tripod leg was inside the radius of my tripod area.
Posted by Les Barstow on March 28, 2007 at 1:32 AM
It goes both ways...
As you noted, you didn't stay in one spot the whole time, even with the limited space of Mesa Arch in a (small) crowd. Could the late guy have found another spot? Surely. But having been out at Mesa Arch in similar situations, you can't know how frustrating it is to show up 20 minutes before sunrise to find three or four other photographers already camped at the ledge - and after the sun has risen, realize that none of them will leave, give up their spot, or even step out of the way for a few seconds while you fire off a not-as-wide-angle shot.
I try hard not to shoot from other peoples' tripod holes - especially not when they're still in the area. I also try to be aware of other photographers around me, and get out of the way after a reasonable period of time (assuming we all aren't waiting for sunrise or sunset...).
You'll always run into people who think they own the location - either already set up and not moving for hours, or coming in late and just assuming you'll step aside immeidately for them. The best you can do is try not to be one of them.
Posted by Les Barstow on March 28, 2007 at 1:40 AM
Jon,
Somewhere there's a joke in "how many photographers can you fit on the eastern shore of Maroon Lake during Aspen season?" My problem at Maroon Lake was different: shooting slides from said location, I had to contend with two photographers in bright red coats set up for the entire sunrise most of the way up the lake shore. When advertising unaltered-from-nature prints, that really limits your possibilities! Most of the other 200 photographers at the lake that morning weren't pleased with them, either.
So, folks - if you're going to be setting up in other peoples' viewfinders, please wear something that will blend in with the scenery...
Just because a photog gets there first, it doesn't mean they can't be gracious and allow a late comer to slide in to take a couple of shots. Especially when you're talking about a landscape shot, where there can be minutes between your own shots. I let people use my spot all the time,and they appreciate it greatly. I was at Mesa Arch last September with 8 other photogs, one had a 4x5 and had the prime spot due to him being the 1st one there. He also steadfastly refused to allow anyone else a shot from his chosen location while taking only about 6 exposures during the sunrise. He did not want to move his camera which was understandable given the time needed to set up a 4x5, but he easily could have allowed other photogs with 35mm equipment to get a frame or two while he waited for his next shot. However he chose not to allow that, which I felt reflected poorly on him. Meanwhile I was exchanging positions with other photogs so we could all get something to go home with. The lesson here, I guess, is to go there on a weekday in the winter for less competition. Oh, by the way, although I probably would have taken a shot from the position the 4x5'r had if no one else was there, I wanted something different than that iconic position and was actually happy to shoot from other positions.
Now,the situation could be quite different if you're talking about a sporting event, or shooting wildlife, where the best shot could very well happen just as you allow someone else in to get his/her shot. Then the early bird should get the worm and not be expected to share.
Ask Richie V about Mesa Arch and German tourists. We got there looong before dawn, scouted our spots and set up. About 5 minutes before sunrise, two groups of 4 each decided that the large format guy (the above-mentioned Richie V!) must have the best spot so they set up with their tripod legs intersecting his from both sides and from in front. When he tried to explain that he needed to access the front of his camera - not just the back like us small and medium format shooters - they just ignored him and kept yapping away to each other in German.
Although Richie was more than a little bit torqued, the rest of us at Mesa Arch were quite pleased. With the tourists stuck to him like white on rice, we had free reign of the rest of the area - moving around and shooting just about anywhere we wanted to!
After the story, the real message: I firmly believe that it is first-come-first-served in this country and that applies to photography too. If you're not the first person at the location and you want to shoot from the first guy's vantage point, you must ask him if that would be OK and you must be willing to be bound by his decision. If he says "no", then you had better get up earlier the next day.
While I understand the compulsion to take the same shot as the masters (just to see if you can match up), anyone who thinks there is only one spot to shoot a landscape scene is seriously lacking vision and creativity.
(Please understand this is not a response to or criticism of anyone who posted before me. It's my not-enough-sleep, much-too-little-coffee and just-got-back-from-a-trip-where-this-type-of-thing-happened-repeatedly rant.)
My dos centavos,
Posted by Scott Bacon on March 28, 2007 at 10:04 AM
Chad wrote:
My question is, is there some sort of obligation or etiquette to share prime shooting spots with other photogs?
Unfortunately, individuals in our society are so increasingly self-important and self-indulgent that the thought of displaying some semblance of courtesy towards others never even crosses their mind.
But my mother taught me to treat others as you would have them treat you. So if I ever show up at a photo location and you're already there, I'll respect the fact that you woke up earlier, allow you your space, and won't crowd or cross tripod legs with you. There are plenty of compositions to be had at any photo location. On the other hand, I have no problem sharing my early won spot with others as long as they're courteous and friendly. But if you think you can stroll in late, act like you own the place and set up your tripod in front of me, I'll be happy to politely explain that I will not allow your arrogance, ignorance, and tardiness to become my inconvenience.
Posted by Nat Coalson on March 28, 2007 at 10:47 AM
It is surprising to me how people who are (probably) usually polite and considerate throw all manners out the window in the excitement of "getting the shot". And the language barrier becomes magnified in the heat of passion. Tourists who have spent the money to come here from other countries expect priority and are often the most rude. Mesa Arch is one of the worst places for this sort of thing. I was there one time when a Japanese couple actually sat down and positioned their cameras right in the middle of the mouth of the arch - effectively ruining the shot for anyone else (unless that's the shot you want) . And they sat there literally for hours.
My solution? Go other places. Although you won't always be able to avoid other people/photographers, your chances of having more fun (and getting more unique shots) are definitely found away from the icons.
That said, most of us want to get at least one of our own versions of the icons, and in this case I would only hope that patience, flexibility and careful communication can avoid this kind of frustration. And going back several times might be the answer.
Unfortunately, though, some people are just jerks and this can't be helped.
Posted by Bill Pelzmann on March 28, 2007 at 11:19 AM
Upper Antelope Canyon is another one of those locations with great potential for conflict. I think certain photographers need to consider medication before attempting a photo session there. One would assume that reasonable people can work things out without too much effort. Unfortunately the encounter that I witnessed involved a LF photographer who thought he owned the canyon. The other photographer strongly disagreed and it got rather ugly. It certainly spoils the experience for everyone, including innocent bystanders. Fortunately my encounters with rude and arrogant photographers have been few, but then I haven't tried a sunrise at Maroon Lake !
So, to answer your question, I'm with Scott, I would do whatever it takes to "share" a prime shooting location with polite and reasonable people. I'm not certain how I would personally react to the others - probably depends on if I've had my medicatioin.
Posted by Jon Leibowitz on March 28, 2007 at 11:32 AM
This is why I'm brushing up on my back country skills! No more popular locations for me!
Posted by Jody Grigg on March 28, 2007 at 11:32 AM
All I can say is some people can be assH#@! as I once found out at sunrise atPorphyry Basin a couple of summers ago. I was the first person at a particular tarn then somebody later shows up with a 4x5 and says she is moving in front of me at another tarn. Boy I was pissed as Tony L. could tell you.
Posted by Chuck Peacock on March 28, 2007 at 11:33 AM
I like the 2 suggestions:
- Go somewhere else or,
- Go at an off peak time.
I'm typically not very pushy and kind of laid back - just a personality thing. But those who are the opposite will almost always take advantage of that fact. I've never really had to put my foot down though (while doing photography) because I follow those previous suggestions for the most part. Come to think of it, I don't don't have very many "icon" shots and the closest I've been to this "scenario" was at the Bells.
Jody, I was wondering if you were going to chime in. Yes, that morning blew me away. Especially since I thought for certain I'd be the first one up there. So much for a peaceful nature moment that morning! But, it all seemed to work out and nobody was killed.
If I get to a place, you can believe I am not moving until I am finished, and especially if someone is being rude/disrespectful. Sorry, you got there first, and if another wanted to get to that spot, he/she surely should have been there early, and not the "late guy strolling into class after the bell has rung" and then try to move you, or invade on your space. That is rude on his part, and reflects poorly on himself. The bad part about me, I will say something right then and there! There are other spots to shoot from, try it there, but this spot is mine, I worked to find it, worked to get it, and have patiently waited for the light. I surely do not want to be elbow to elbow with someone, or even worse, them positioning their camera in front of mine. I for one, would not even ask someone to move, or if I could get into their position for a shot. I would just look for a different comp, and fire away. You may want that "iconic" shot, but there are always different ways to view something, and that difference may seperate you from the rest of the pack.
This is just another reason, to pick an area, and just wander, the possiblities are endless.
This is why I rarely go to these spots. For me photography is secondary to experiencing the magic of the place.
I remember my first couple of trips to Delicate Arch. I was living in California at the time and on these first visits I didn't even carry a camera. I moved to Utah about 6 years ago and in all this time I only visited Delicate Arch exactly once. I remember thinking beforehand that any self respecting Utah photographer needs to have a great image of it and I had to pay my dues. I tried to pick a cold day mid-week and time my visit so I can get there in good light and not have to wait too long (and still had to share the place with a crowd), and I remember thinking on my way down how glad I was to check it off my list and not have to go back again.
I think you have to have reasonable expectations when shooting at prime spots and icons. "Share the road" so to speak. On the very rare occasion when I'm at such a place, I wouldn't feel compelled to surrender a specific spot that I scouted out, but I wouldn't hestitate to make room - even if it's a little cozy - for a fellow photog wanting to shoot right next to me. I've been in that same situation myself.
LF is a little different give the time it takes to set up, and I've politely cautioned folks a few times that they were welcome to shoot right next to me but to be aware that bumping a tripod with a LF on it isn't the same as bumping an SLR. I've never had any problems. By far, most people I've encoutered have been friendly, courteous and respectful.
Now, in Jody's case, my patience would have been short-circuited. I'm not confrontational or even outspoken by nature, but the one thing that gets my ire up is rudeness coupled with indifference. I likely would have tried the polite approach with that woman, but if there was no compromise to be found and my shot ruined, I would have simply moved in front of her, stripped down to my tighty whities and put a 'moon' in her shot!
I hiked in early one morning to Broken Arch to photograph sunrise. Broken Arch is not your typical icon and therefore not usually crowded. I arrived and set up for a composition I had previously scouted. Just as the arch began to glow a flute playing, machete wielding, point-and-shoot toting touron walks up the trail from the campground behind me and then asks me to move so he can get a photo of the arch. I looked around and noted that there were literally dozens of other places from which he could take a photo and then looked back at him and just said, "No." I then went about my business to his dismay.
I'm generally laid back and easy going, but I'm not about to move from my position during sweet light when there are plenty of other spots from which to take a snapshot. He could have sidled up next to me and taken a photo or made like the tourists at the Grand Canyon and literally shot right over my shoulder and I wouldn't have had any issues.
Rick: I like your style! I'll have to remember that if anyone ever sets up in front of my camera!
Personally, I love the fact that so many people (jerks included) are gathered at the same iconic locations sunrise after sunrise.to fill their Photo Bingo cards (NOT to say that is the only possible motivation). Leaves "huge tracts of land" for the rest of us to explore and enjoy and interpret!
I hope that I never lose the sense of a place (as Guy expressed so eloquently) in my enthusiasm to create images. Some of the most beautiful and rewarding locations I have visited elude artful still photography. And many of the images I most admire are not of iconic subjects. I sometimes wonder if the names for Dead Horse Point and Dead Horse Mill were derived from the phrase, "beating a dead horse"!
"Go to nature in all singleness of heart...rejecting nothing, selecting nothing and scorning nothing; believing all things to be right and good, and rejoicing always in the truth" -John Ruskin, 19th century art critic
I appreciate all the different and interesting points of view, and I'll point out that it was this guy's arrogant attitude that was the problem for us. He got back to the parking lot shortly after me, and if looks could kill...
I've got no problem sharing space with anyone as long they respect that I, or anyone who was there first, took the time to scout, set up a shot, and spend time waiting for light. The day before, I shot sunset at Delicate Arch and showed up shortly before 5:00 for about a 7:40 sunset. I may not have had the best spot, but I had the spot I wanted. On the other hand, I would never encroach in another's space unless invited.
I'm not necessarily an icon hunter (I haven't been to that many places), but I'd never been to Arches or Canyonlands. And, I think one man's icon is another man's fascination. I'm not compelled to go back and shoot Mesa again, but I did want at least one shot from there. If I vacation in Paris one time, I'll definitely shoot the Eiffel Tower.
Chad, I certainly didn't mean to imply that YOU were an icon hunter. (And it's OKAY to be an icon hunter. It's just not "me".) In the Let's Make a Deal game of nature photography, some will keep the icon and some will trade it for what's around Bend Number 3. And if you are time-limited and going for the best odds of getting a keeper, sometimes the icon is the best choice.
This is something that I think most everyone has dealt with one way or another. I had one of those 'fun' experiences at Maroon Lake a couple of years ago where this guy set up right in front of me, but I asked him curtly to please move, which he did.
In a recent trip to Arches, I had a great experience for sunrise at the North Window. Three photographers were already there on a ledge that looks through the North Window to Turret Arch, which is an icon shot. I asked politely for space and we all interlocked our tripod legs to make room. One guy had a 4x5 on a rock pinnacle, but we obviously didn't ask him to move for a shot. I'm not that brave to photograph where he was standing from anyway. We all had a great time as everyone was polite. I photographed sunrise here instead of Mesa Arch for the very reasons people mentioned above. I'd like to have my own, but there's plenty of other impressive places to photograph.
Posted by Paul Beiser on March 28, 2007 at 9:28 PM
Well said, Guy, I agree. This is a great string, btw.
I have had experiences on both sides of this (setting up early, getting their late), and the good experiences are when people are thoughtful, courteous, and work together to help each other (I seem to remember a great hike in Zion 2 years ago with Tony L, when we shared some of the nice spots with other photogs, and for the most part things worked out well - of course, this took more time and we hiked out in the dark ).
Landscape photography seems similar in some respects to other outdoor pursuits such as backcountry skiing or climbing. I'm there for the experience and it's that much better (IMHO) when we act with decency and teamwork with fellow people we meet, especially when unplanned. I've had some great experiences (and met some awesome people!), and not so great. I really try to remember that 'I define myself' and act the way I think I should be acting regardless of how hostile the other people may be .
Posted by Fred Stearns on March 29, 2007 at 8:11 PM
I had an interesting experience at my one stop at Mesa Arch. I got there early and there was already a 8x10 photographer set up. He had such a wide angle lens that he was almost under the left side of the arch. I found a nice location at the right side of the arch, which I check later and think was a better location than the one he had chosen. Quite a number of other photographers showed up. With the exception of the old man with the 8x10, it was a friendly group. We all got our pictures and moved around with the sun rise. Then the old man had his hand maiden, or slave woman because that was the way he appeared to treat her, packed up his gear and they left.
About ten minutes later, the colors of the sunrise peaked. I hope he got his shot, I do know that it was far easier trying to compose a picture without eliminating the legs from his tripod from my picture. The point-and-shoot photographers came and shot their pictures and left. They were usually in too much of a hurry to get to the next stop to stay long enough to be bothersome.
All in all, it was crowded at times, but everyone was polite and friendly.
I have had similar experiences at places like The Maroon Bells. I am amused by the point-and-shoot crowd who wait for me to finish making my pictures and then rush over each other to occupy the spot I just vacated while I stand off to the side folding up my tripod. Strangely, I have very little trouble with them forcing their way in front of me or push me out of the way to get their own pictures. In case you wonder, I do get the occasional tourist dressed as they are in wild clothing invading my picture space before I notice them. But they usually are in a hurry and quickly move on. It is far less a problem when I can blow away a few electrons and don't have to pay for the film and developing.
Discussion
26 repliesI don't suppose this comes up very often in landscape photography, but I can see where it might in some locations. I was at Mesa Arch the weekend before last and there were only two of us who showed up early and attempted to scout a good composition location. Right before sunrise, a family showed up with their point-and-shoots and were also waiting for sunrise. They were very respectful of the serene scene and were even go so far as to whisper to each other.
Finally the sun popped over the mountains, and we all began shooting. After a couple of minutes, I hear an out-of-breath guy hiking up behind us (man I hope it was no one on this forum), and I briefly glance over to see an older guy with what appeared to be an expensive SLR trying to find a place to shoot.
He finally walks over behind the other early guy and asks if he can get a shot. The early guy, thinking he means shoot over his head says go ahead. Finally, it dawns on the early guy that late guy wants him to move. He asks, "You don't actually want me to move my camera?" Obviously, late guy wanted exactly that. Early guy then says,"You can't just set up right behind someone and expect them to move!" Late guy was beside himself and got rather peeved, but he moved off and tried something else. I looked over and just shook my head.
Meanwhile, I had left my original position and had set up again when late guy comes right up next to my tripod and positions his camera right next to mine and fires off a few shots. He was so much in my personal space that I had to wait for him to finish before I started shooting.
My question is, is there some sort of obligation or etiquette to share prime shooting spots with other photogs? I thought the guy was extraordinarily rude, but then again, I'm not a veteran shooter with experience in shooting popular locations.
As you noted, you didn't stay in one spot the whole time, even with the limited space of Mesa Arch in a (small) crowd. Could the late guy have found another spot? Surely. But having been out at Mesa Arch in similar situations, you can't know how frustrating it is to show up 20 minutes before sunrise to find three or four other photographers already camped at the ledge - and after the sun has risen, realize that none of them will leave, give up their spot, or even step out of the way for a few seconds while you fire off a not-as-wide-angle shot.
I try hard not to shoot from other peoples' tripod holes - especially not when they're still in the area. I also try to be aware of other photographers around me, and get out of the way after a reasonable period of time (assuming we all aren't waiting for sunrise or sunset...).
You'll always run into people who think they own the location - either already set up and not moving for hours, or coming in late and just assuming you'll step aside immeidately for them. The best you can do is try not to be one of them.
Somewhere there's a joke in "how many photographers can you fit on the eastern shore of Maroon Lake during Aspen season?" My problem at Maroon Lake was different: shooting slides from said location, I had to contend with two photographers in bright red coats set up for the entire sunrise most of the way up the lake shore. When advertising unaltered-from-nature prints, that really limits your possibilities! Most of the other 200 photographers at the lake that morning weren't pleased with them, either.
So, folks - if you're going to be setting up in other peoples' viewfinders, please wear something that will blend in with the scenery...
Now,the situation could be quite different if you're talking about a sporting event, or shooting wildlife, where the best shot could very well happen just as you allow someone else in to get his/her shot. Then the early bird should get the worm and not be expected to share.
Don
Although Richie was more than a little bit torqued, the rest of us at Mesa Arch were quite pleased. With the tourists stuck to him like white on rice, we had free reign of the rest of the area - moving around and shooting just about anywhere we wanted to!
After the story, the real message: I firmly believe that it is first-come-first-served in this country and that applies to photography too. If you're not the first person at the location and you want to shoot from the first guy's vantage point, you must ask him if that would be OK and you must be willing to be bound by his decision. If he says "no", then you had better get up earlier the next day.
While I understand the compulsion to take the same shot as the masters (just to see if you can match up), anyone who thinks there is only one spot to shoot a landscape scene is seriously lacking vision and creativity.
(Please understand this is not a response to or criticism of anyone who posted before me. It's my not-enough-sleep, much-too-little-coffee and just-got-back-from-a-trip-where-this-type-of-thing-happened-repeatedly rant.)
My dos centavos,
But my mother taught me to treat others as you would have them treat you. So if I ever show up at a photo location and you're already there, I'll respect the fact that you woke up earlier, allow you your space, and won't crowd or cross tripod legs with you. There are plenty of compositions to be had at any photo location. On the other hand, I have no problem sharing my early won spot with others as long as they're courteous and friendly. But if you think you can stroll in late, act like you own the place and set up your tripod in front of me, I'll be happy to politely explain that I will not allow your arrogance, ignorance, and tardiness to become my inconvenience.
My solution? Go other places. Although you won't always be able to avoid other people/photographers, your chances of having more fun (and getting more unique shots) are definitely found away from the icons.
That said, most of us want to get at least one of our own versions of the icons, and in this case I would only hope that patience, flexibility and careful communication can avoid this kind of frustration. And going back several times might be the answer.
Unfortunately, though, some people are just jerks and this can't be helped.
So, to answer your question, I'm with Scott, I would do whatever it takes to "share" a prime shooting location with polite and reasonable people. I'm not certain how I would personally react to the others - probably depends on if I've had my medicatioin.
- Go somewhere else or,
- Go at an off peak time.
I'm typically not very pushy and kind of laid back - just a personality thing. But those who are the opposite will almost always take advantage of that fact. I've never really had to put my foot down though (while doing photography) because I follow those previous suggestions for the most part. Come to think of it, I don't don't have very many "icon" shots and the closest I've been to this "scenario" was at the Bells.
This is just another reason, to pick an area, and just wander, the possiblities are endless.
This is why I rarely go to these spots. For me photography is secondary to experiencing the magic of the place.
I remember my first couple of trips to Delicate Arch. I was living in California at the time and on these first visits I didn't even carry a camera. I moved to Utah about 6 years ago and in all this time I only visited Delicate Arch exactly once. I remember thinking beforehand that any self respecting Utah photographer needs to have a great image of it and I had to pay my dues. I tried to pick a cold day mid-week and time my visit so I can get there in good light and not have to wait too long (and still had to share the place with a crowd), and I remember thinking on my way down how glad I was to check it off my list and not have to go back again.
This is not the experience I'm after.
Guy
LF is a little different give the time it takes to set up, and I've politely cautioned folks a few times that they were welcome to shoot right next to me but to be aware that bumping a tripod with a LF on it isn't the same as bumping an SLR. I've never had any problems. By far, most people I've encoutered have been friendly, courteous and respectful.
Now, in Jody's case, my patience would have been short-circuited. I'm not confrontational or even outspoken by nature, but the one thing that gets my ire up is rudeness coupled with indifference. I likely would have tried the polite approach with that woman, but if there was no compromise to be found and my shot ruined, I would have simply moved in front of her, stripped down to my tighty whities and put a 'moon' in her shot!
I'm generally laid back and easy going, but I'm not about to move from my position during sweet light when there are plenty of other spots from which to take a snapshot. He could have sidled up next to me and taken a photo or made like the tourists at the Grand Canyon and literally shot right over my shoulder and I wouldn't have had any issues.
Rick: I like your style! I'll have to remember that if anyone ever sets up in front of my camera!
"I would have simply moved in front of her, stripped down to my tighty whities and put a 'moon' in her shot! "
hahahahah, that is just classic!
I would love a better Mesa Arch shot but I can't quite bring myself to go back there because it's no fun to compete with the crowd.
I hope that I never lose the sense of a place (as Guy expressed so eloquently) in my enthusiasm to create images. Some of the most beautiful and rewarding locations I have visited elude artful still photography. And many of the images I most admire are not of iconic subjects. I sometimes wonder if the names for Dead Horse Point and Dead Horse Mill were derived from the phrase, "beating a dead horse"!
"Go to nature in all singleness of heart...rejecting nothing, selecting nothing and scorning nothing; believing all things to be right and good, and rejoicing always in the truth" -John Ruskin, 19th century art critic
I appreciate all the different and interesting points of view, and I'll point out that it was this guy's arrogant attitude that was the problem for us. He got back to the parking lot shortly after me, and if looks could kill...
I've got no problem sharing space with anyone as long they respect that I, or anyone who was there first, took the time to scout, set up a shot, and spend time waiting for light. The day before, I shot sunset at Delicate Arch and showed up shortly before 5:00 for about a 7:40 sunset. I may not have had the best spot, but I had the spot I wanted. On the other hand, I would never encroach in another's space unless invited.
I'm not necessarily an icon hunter (I haven't been to that many places), but I'd never been to Arches or Canyonlands. And, I think one man's icon is another man's fascination. I'm not compelled to go back and shoot Mesa again, but I did want at least one shot from there. If I vacation in Paris one time, I'll definitely shoot the Eiffel Tower.
No worries, Don
I completely understand and agree with you.
In a recent trip to Arches, I had a great experience for sunrise at the North Window. Three photographers were already there on a ledge that looks through the North Window to Turret Arch, which is an icon shot. I asked politely for space and we all interlocked our tripod legs to make room. One guy had a 4x5 on a rock pinnacle, but we obviously didn't ask him to move for a shot. I'm not that brave to photograph where he was standing from anyway. We all had a great time as everyone was polite. I photographed sunrise here instead of Mesa Arch for the very reasons people mentioned above. I'd like to have my own, but there's plenty of other impressive places to photograph.
I have had experiences on both sides of this (setting up early, getting their late), and the good experiences are when people are thoughtful, courteous, and work together to help each other (I seem to remember a great hike in Zion 2 years ago with Tony L, when we shared some of the nice spots with other photogs, and for the most part things worked out well - of course, this took more time and we hiked out in the dark
Landscape photography seems similar in some respects to other outdoor pursuits such as backcountry skiing or climbing. I'm there for the experience and it's that much better (IMHO) when we act with decency and teamwork with fellow people we meet, especially when unplanned. I've had some great experiences (and met some awesome people!), and not so great. I really try to remember that 'I define myself' and act the way I think I should be acting regardless of how hostile the other people may be
About ten minutes later, the colors of the sunrise peaked. I hope he got his shot, I do know that it was far easier trying to compose a picture without eliminating the legs from his tripod from my picture. The point-and-shoot photographers came and shot their pictures and left. They were usually in too much of a hurry to get to the next stop to stay long enough to be bothersome.
All in all, it was crowded at times, but everyone was polite and friendly.
I have had similar experiences at places like The Maroon Bells. I am amused by the point-and-shoot crowd who wait for me to finish making my pictures and then rush over each other to occupy the spot I just vacated while I stand off to the side folding up my tripod. Strangely, I have very little trouble with them forcing their way in front of me or push me out of the way to get their own pictures. In case you wonder, I do get the occasional tourist dressed as they are in wild clothing invading my picture space before I notice them. But they usually are in a hurry and quickly move on. It is far less a problem when I can blow away a few electrons and don't have to pay for the film and developing.