I am interested in your list who do you think should be in a Top20 list of the world most talented and extraordinary bird photographer. The list should be without any ranking. Please, enter the full name of the photographer.
Hope you will not ignore this topic and share your thoughts on it.
My thoughts are not what your after but I don't believe in a top20 anything in photography.
There are many many talented bird photographers the world over but some of them may not be AS recognized as some others. I have a mate who is a underwater photographer but if I named him you would probably say who's he. Well he has won countless awards, has been printed in the BBC Wildlife photographer of the year books countless times for his outstanding images but he is a quite guy that doesn't try to be in the limelight and as such his name wouldn't be in a Top20 Underwater photographers list unless you knew him.He also owns the world's biggest online underwater stock libary. His names Kelvin Atkins so if you have BBC books you will probably find him.
So to me a Top20 List is a waste of time.
If you asked the Top20 of the best known you would get one. Arthur Morris would be one of America's best known, he also takes top images as well, but I could name some Australian ones you would never have heard of
The question wasn't for listing the best known photographers but listing those YOU are thinking as gurus in bird photography. The target was to get to know them. So if Top20 is a waste of time don't list them.
Szimi
PS: As long as you wrote this few sentences a small list could have been completed.
Posted by Richard Wong on April 5, 2007 at 10:06 PM
I hardly know of any bird photographer specialists but Tim Fitzharris and Art Morris comes to mind. speaking of which I saw a guy today with a big white lens and better beamer flash on a monopod that looked just like him. He was teaching some lady how to use that lens. Maybe it was him, I don't know.
If you wander through the images in NPN's Avian Forum, I believe your Top 20 list would fill pretty quickly!
Bingo!
One thing to bear in mind about some of the "well-known" bird photographers is that they may not be in the "top 20" in terms of talent, but simply shrewd self-promoters (with the over-inflated egos to go with it) who have created a market for themselves. As Preston observed, the NPN avian gallery is filled with photos taken by "unknowns" that are at least as good as those you see anywhere else.
IMO, the top 2 bird photographers are Bob Steele and Garth McElroy. Their photos stand shoulder-to-shoulder with any of the "big names" and unlike the shrewd self-promoters, you don't have to take an overpriced "workshop" to learn from them - they are here every day sharing their knowledge for the simple joy of it. With that in mind, non of the "big-name" bird photographers can hold a candle to these guys!
I could never be accused of spending too much time on bird images so the fact that some stand out in my mind is probably worth mentioning. Other than Bob and Garth, I will also mention Jim Zipp whose images in my mind go beyond technical perfection and hold some great visual and emotional appeal.
I do agree with the others though. Top-X in anything is trivializing the complexity and depth of a given field. It's like measuring the vast field of music from classical to contemporary through Casey Kasem.
I certainly agree with the opinions expressed in the above posts. Being a self-promoter and having a loud voice and charging LOTS for minimal information does not a top bird photographer make. It is the people in NPN who take fabulous photos and freely give of their time and knowledge that make MY list!
Actually, there is a lot of just plain great photographers out there who will never be recognized. Probably the *best* floral photographer I have ever seen is a local portrait photographer who works for someone else. I have seen a couple of slide shows he has presented, over an hour long each, and every photo is significantly different from every other photo. Usually, after 30-40 shots by someone, you begin to sense a pattern in the work, even if you can't articulate it. Not him. But he doesn't post on forums, have a website, promote himself, especially outside of central Ohio, etc - all the things you would need to do to be recognized as one of the best. He's happy, and for the rest of locally, we're happy because he is also really generous with his knowledge and personality. But it is a loss for the rest of you.
Anyway, the point is that if you are going to get names of the best photographers outside of this website, you pretty much will be restricting yourself to the best known, which unfortunately isn't the same thing.
Such a list tends to be too competitive. Noone here in any of the Galleries is vieing for top spot. It is all about sharing, teaching, and learning. I can compile a list of top 20 today and tomorrow the list can change.
Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
Posted by Richard Wong on April 6, 2007 at 4:43 PM
"One thing to bear in mind about some of the "well-known" bird photographers is that they may not be in the "top 20" in terms of talent, but simply shrewd self-promoters (with the over-inflated egos to go with it) who have created a market for themselves.
Lol Jim. I say the same thing off-line. I agree that NPN has the best photographers though I might not know them by name.
I am bit sorry about the replies which sounds a bit offensive to me. Maybe I made a mistake to ask for a Top20. I would have been better to ask you to name your favourite avian photographer(s).
Well, the replies have probably been a bit too hard on you considering this was your first topic. Since it's obvious your intentions were to hear from knowledgeable people about who's work you might learn the most from by viewing, I think it's a useful question. In this community, most of us shy away from rating/ranking photographers since we're artists. A question like, "what avian photographer have you learned the most from by looking at their work," could possibly turn up better results.
Szimi, I am sorry if my reply was offensive to you. Looking at your website you are certainly a capable bird photographer. I especially like the preening little egret. Avian photography is certainly not my forteit, but I know what I like. I have my favorites and NPN is the only site where I view avian images. Those who make the Editor's (Moderator's) Pick list is where I would go for exceptional quality avian images and by extension avian photographers, as well as browsing through the Avian Gallery. Of course we all benefit from critique at NPN no matter who it was directed to.
My apologies also, of course my response was just kidding around, I personally find the issue of who is best a bit subjective. Most bird photogs I know do it for the love of beauty and nature.. the fresh air, and the accomplishment of a great shot. Human nature forces many of us down that competitive road to being the best at our craft, but it my mind, I am just trying to do the best I can.
There is always the question in our minds regarding who is better, and what is "the" best image. Many photogs who I know personally do not even email there pictures around., wheras a clown like me can't wait to share them with as many people as possible... whatever turns your crank., it's all about having fun.
It is an interesting question, but I don't think a general discussion here on NPN would give much merrit to the answer. If you communicate such a question to all members of NPN, and have some sort of poll/list of NPN bird photos, nominations, and all., it might be fun, but also could be a nightmare!!
just a few, more serious thoughts., sorry again bud, no disrespect intended.
Well, the replies have probably been a bit too hard on you considering this was your first topic.
It seem to me that it was also the last here
I still stay commenting the images what is maybe acceptable...
Have a lovely and productive Easter Holidays.
Well I ain't scared I know nothing about avian shots what so ever except for what I think is totally brilliant for my eyes. So that leaves Stephen Dalton. Simple really. The guy is not only a great bird photographer, but also a genius in developing gear to do it with. I've not seen anyone anywhere that is capable of what he does and takes. That to me makes him kind of special.
Ahem, not to mention hes also #1 in macro in my eyes as well. See, I do have a hero after all
Hi Szimi, I'm sorry for the lack of answers (or strange answers) the NPN-community has given you here. I think you don't find many birdphotographers in this Discussion forum, and I think the answers reflect that. I would suggest you try your question over at UKNP where many European birdphotographers frequent. I don't see anything wrong with your question, I believe we all find inspiration somewhere - and why not mention it ? I disagree with birdphotography being an art, to me it's a way of documenting birds and their behaviour. I don't think that is very well accomplished by creative perches and setups, but more with knowledge of the subject, and by capturing their true nature and behaviour.
As I don't feel any obligation to be political correct, I don't mind naming some of the birdphotographers which work I find inspiring: North America has many great birdphotographers of which we see many here on NPN. As mentioned some big names are good at promoting themselves, but that doesn't take away from them being great photographers. Often though I feel that many of the topnames in America work too little with natural light and too much with fill-flash, as well as using too creative setups.
In America I find very inspiring the work of avian-moderators Bob and Garth, but can also mention Robert Royce, Ed Dubois, Nate Chapell, Kenneth Kijewskii, KC Choo and many others here at NPN. For flight photography I truly admire Richard Ettlinger, David Hemmings and Robert Palmer.
In Europe I'm especially impressed by the work of Jari Peltomaki (Finland) and Markus Varesvuo (Finland) - and these two are probably at the very top of my list. Among others I also like very much the work of Andres Domingues (Spain), David Kjaer (UK), Jens Kristian Kjærgaard (Denmark), Brutus Östling (Sweden) and Omar Brännström (Sweden).
This is worse than picking the top 20 songs ever recorded. But...if you insist...start with Bob Steele's webpage, then work your way through all his links and all their links and so on. Should be about 10,000 top 20 photographers there. That's what I did. I now own all the same toys they have. Still something missing....and that's why I joined this site. To fill that void and learn.
Just today in the Avian Forum I learned that a 25mm extension tube on the back of a 500mm lens will help you get a Calliope Hummer in perfect close focus. Why didn't I think of that?
Discussion
20 repliesI am interested in your list who do you think should be in a Top20 list of the world most talented and extraordinary bird photographer. The list should be without any ranking. Please, enter the full name of the photographer.
Hope you will not ignore this topic and share your thoughts on it.
Cheers: Szimi
There are many many talented bird photographers the world over but some of them may not be AS recognized as some others. I have a mate who is a underwater photographer but if I named him you would probably say who's he. Well he has won countless awards, has been printed in the BBC Wildlife photographer of the year books countless times for his outstanding images but he is a quite guy that doesn't try to be in the limelight and as such his name wouldn't be in a Top20 Underwater photographers list unless you knew him.He also owns the world's biggest online underwater stock libary. His names Kelvin Atkins so if you have BBC books you will probably find him.
So to me a Top20 List is a waste of time.
If you asked the Top20 of the best known you would get one. Arthur Morris would be one of America's best known, he also takes top images as well, but I could name some Australian ones you would never have heard of
Szimi
PS: As long as you wrote this few sentences a small list could have been completed.
If you wander through the images in NPN's Avian Forum, I believe your Top 20 list would fill pretty quickly!
-PB
Bingo!
One thing to bear in mind about some of the "well-known" bird photographers is that they may not be in the "top 20" in terms of talent, but simply shrewd self-promoters (with the over-inflated egos to go with it) who have created a market for themselves. As Preston observed, the NPN avian gallery is filled with photos taken by "unknowns" that are at least as good as those you see anywhere else.
IMO, the top 2 bird photographers are Bob Steele and Garth McElroy. Their photos stand shoulder-to-shoulder with any of the "big names" and unlike the shrewd self-promoters, you don't have to take an overpriced "workshop" to learn from them - they are here every day sharing their knowledge for the simple joy of it. With that in mind, non of the "big-name" bird photographers can hold a candle to these guys!
I do agree with the others though. Top-X in anything is trivializing the complexity and depth of a given field. It's like measuring the vast field of music from classical to contemporary through Casey Kasem.
Guy
ROFLOL! Thanks for the Friday morning laugh.
BTW, good point on Jim Zipp!
Anyway, the point is that if you are going to get names of the best photographers outside of this website, you pretty much will be restricting yourself to the best known, which unfortunately isn't the same thing.
Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
Lol Jim. I say the same thing off-line. I agree that NPN has the best photographers though I might not know them by name.
Sorry again. Szimi
Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
My apologies also, of course my response was just kidding around, I personally find the issue of who is best a bit subjective. Most bird photogs I know do it for the love of beauty and nature.. the fresh air, and the accomplishment of a great shot. Human nature forces many of us down that competitive road to being the best at our craft, but it my mind, I am just trying to do the best I can.
There is always the question in our minds regarding who is better, and what is "the" best image. Many photogs who I know personally do not even email there pictures around., wheras a clown like me can't wait to share them with as many people as possible... whatever turns your crank., it's all about having fun.
It is an interesting question, but I don't think a general discussion here on NPN would give much merrit to the answer. If you communicate such a question to all members of NPN, and have some sort of poll/list of NPN bird photos, nominations, and all., it might be fun, but also could be a nightmare!!
just a few, more serious thoughts., sorry again bud, no disrespect intended.
Ray Barlow.
It seem to me that it was also the last here
I still stay commenting the images what is maybe acceptable...
Have a lovely and productive Easter Holidays.
Szimi
Ahem, not to mention hes also #1 in macro in my eyes as well. See, I do have a hero after all
All the best and only IMO
Danny.
As I don't feel any obligation to be political correct, I don't mind naming some of the birdphotographers which work I find inspiring: North America has many great birdphotographers of which we see many here on NPN. As mentioned some big names are good at promoting themselves, but that doesn't take away from them being great photographers. Often though I feel that many of the topnames in America work too little with natural light and too much with fill-flash, as well as using too creative setups.
In America I find very inspiring the work of avian-moderators Bob and Garth, but can also mention Robert Royce, Ed Dubois, Nate Chapell, Kenneth Kijewskii, KC Choo and many others here at NPN. For flight photography I truly admire Richard Ettlinger, David Hemmings and Robert Palmer.
In Europe I'm especially impressed by the work of Jari Peltomaki (Finland) and Markus Varesvuo (Finland) - and these two are probably at the very top of my list. Among others I also like very much the work of Andres Domingues (Spain), David Kjaer (UK), Jens Kristian Kjærgaard (Denmark), Brutus Östling (Sweden) and Omar Brännström (Sweden).
Best regards, Helge
Just today in the Avian Forum I learned that a 25mm extension tube on the back of a 500mm lens will help you get a Calliope Hummer in perfect close focus. Why didn't I think of that?