On Friday I received my copy of CS3. The install a went smoothly and activation occurred as it is supposed to. I have been using a trial of LR and I must say that with the upgraded version of ACR and Bridge, along with a super upgrade to CS3, I just don't see the need for LR. The ACR interface is slightly different, but all the features are the same. The work flow options in Bridge are better and much more like what I am used to. Bridge seems to be a major upgrade to the previous version. So, while I really wanted to like LR, the importing of files problems in the Library module made it almost dead on arrival.
So, I will be uninstalling LR and staying with the CS3 upgrade I purchased.
What has your experience been?
Posted by Mark Windom on April 22, 2007 at 9:01 PM
Since I just switched to digital and had no existing files to contend with I have had no problems with Lightroom. I find the Library and Develop modules very intuitive and easy to use.
Posted by Bill Chambers on April 22, 2007 at 10:02 PM
Ed - I also tried LR and came to the same conclusion after trying CS3 beta. IMO, LR is just an attempt by Adobe to try to needlessly separate people from their hard earned money for good reason.
Great article Guy!! Adobe IS such a tremendous pain to deal with. This is why I'm waitng for Amazon to get the program in stock before buying. Amazon is SO EASY to deal with, and efficient as well.
Guy, thanks for sharing your pain. Your article is an entertaining, but agonizing look at incompetence present in too many companies today. It just isn't that hard to do it right. Why do they make it so tough? People are trying hard to spend their money. Make it painless for them. Is that too much to ask?
Shoot. If you think Adobe is bad, try dealing with Dell. The good news there is that they have an answer to give you. The bad news is no one there has the same answer!
I bought CS3 online and downloaded it immediately to my workstation. Activation went just find. The next day I went to download it to my laptop, my order from the previous day did not exist. The only thing that showed was an order from 2005 for the Windoze version of CS2. The order for my Mac version of CS2 from last year was gone too. So I sneaker-netted the dmg file from the workstation to my laptop and it activated just fine.
I thought the old version of Bridge was okay until I tried Aperture. Then I realized how clunky it was. I'm anxious to give the new Bridge a go. I also have Lightroom. I'll try both and compare to Aperture and see which one I keep.
I also don't understand Adobe's marketing and sales decisions. LR costs $300 (or $200 if the early bird discount is still in effect). If you have a licensed and activated version of CS or CS2 the upgrade to CS3 is $200. I used a discount code I searched for using Google and got 20% off. So the total with tax and shipping was less than $190 to totally upgrade to CS3 and reap the ACR benefits of LR as well as the Bridge improvements and the other benfits like blending and selecting and filters etc. So more software for less money with the same features as LR to begin with but not the agravating import issues in Library. I don't think I am the only one who had problems importing different versions of images from older files. (RAW and TIFF of the same image) So, for less $$ I get more software that includes the best of LR and does a lot more. This doesn't sound like a good buisiness stragety to me.
Really sounds like I am down on Adobe. I am not. It just puzzles me why the company would devote so much effort to introduce these 2 programs when just CS3 does the job.
I wanted to add to this thread, simply by way of, perhaps, putting what so many of us endure in solitude, into a kind of public forum and hoping for a ‘tipping point,’ or ‘critical mass,’ or a ‘turning-of-the-corner.’
I agree with this thread’s assessment of DELL . . . my experience exactly. I haven't endured, personally, the relayed ADOBE horrors (give me time). However, I don't doubt, for one minute, their veracity. I see this sort of decline increasing geometrically. My experience with United Airlines is comparably hair-pulling.
Recently I have noted a new wrinkle concerning the outsourcing of customer service to foreign countries and the issue of how difficult it is to understand what the customer service rep is saying. Initially it was the case that the service rep would try very hard to make themselves understood; now they are expressly rude if you ask them to repeat what they said. The other day I had a service rep whose name I had to ask to be repeated three times before I got it. It turned out to be Peaches! One wonders who's dishing out the money here -- it makes my eyes tear to note that it's me.
I keep thinking that someone will see this volume of customer frustration as a niche market opportunity, but I wait and I wait and it doesn't seem to go that way.
Maybe, down the road, some sort of ‘Consumer Reports’ will emerge, specifically aimed at rating and detailing corporate America’s level of customer service, or maybe an EBay-style, seller-rating-system will spring into place. That could go some towards impacting corporate bottom lines. A fall in the corporate bottom line might, and I emphasize might, precipitate some small change in customer treatment. I know, I personally have resisted mightily, converting from PC to Mac, but my next computer could well be a Mac.
Laurel, I was completely fed up with Dell support. Then, having seen the direction Microsoft Vista was headed (focused on business users rather than creative artists) I finally decided to make the leap to a Mac. I have so far only had to call Apple support once but the difference between that experience and Dell was night and day - I got a quick response, a knowledgeable and coherent support rep, and quick resolution of my issue. Apple also has the "genius bar" at each of their retail stores in case you want to get expert advice face to face. So far I am very pleased with my choice.
Hmmm... my experience with Dell has been great so far. I've owned 3 of them, have had very few problems and good support when I have had to call. Apple on the other hand...not too pleased.
When I couldn't get my new Mac Pro to start up without blowing breakers in the house, I had to return it. Even though it was only days old, and the packaging immaculate...and even though it wasn't a special order (it came right from the back of the store), and even though my wife bought a $2500 mac book pro and my father-n-law bought a 20" iMac at the same time, they still charged me a 10% restocking fee. There was no expectation that they forego the restocking fee, but considering the situation, it would have been the right thing to do. So...I ordered a Dell with 2x more RAM, 4x more storage, a larger and equally nice wide-screen display...for $800 less than the Mac. I'm not eager to send Apple any more of my money.
Posted by Bill Pelzmann on April 23, 2007 at 6:13 PM
CS3 is a good upgrade and I have my copy. However, LR will be my primary front end for processing RAW files. Although there are some glitches - such as the "duplicate" file import problems, I find it a great improvement to my image management and workflow. The DAM features are just right for my needs and keeping all the edits as instructions in a database is my preferred way of working. Now it just needs layers, better sharpening, and noise reduction modules.
I have 33,000 images loaded to a single LR database. They reside on 2 external hard drives connected to a 3 year old laptop with 2 GIG of RAM running Widnows XP - i.e. nothing special. I now have instant access to any subset of these images, using any metadata or keyword criteria that I can imagine - while still maintaining my old folder structure.
I gave up on the LR Betas, but am impressed with the performace and features of the v 1.0 release. It was well worth the $169.15 intro price (with discount code).
I do not see that Adobe is trying to rip off their customers. They included almost all of the new RAW processing features in CS3 and did not force the new, non-destructive ediiting paradigm, along with the required database interface down peoples throats by replacing Bridge and ACR with LR. I'm certain the uproar would have been enormous if they had. We now have a choice and it will be interesting to see how LR evolves, and if it remains a separate program.
I thank Nat Coalson for convincing me to give LR another try.
Posted by Tom Webster on April 26, 2007 at 10:07 AM
Frankly, not all of us have had the money or the inclination to upgrade to every release of Photoshop. I am still running Photoshop 7.0 which fills all of my post processing needs. Lightroom gives me the best RAW converter on the market without forcing me to spend $650.00 on a new version of Photoshop with features I will never use. Lightroom will be a greta RAW converter, too, for those people who do not use Photoshop at all.
Tom, if you have Photoshop 7.0, your cost for the CS3 upgrade is $199 from Adobe and potentially less from other places. This is the same as the "intro" price for Lightroom.
Guy
Posted by Tom Webster on April 26, 2007 at 9:32 PM
Thanks, Guy. I just don't need all of the extras that CS3 offers. I'm flat happy with 7.0.1.
Hi guys, since I am very happy with Paintshop Pro (and Corel/Jasc support and upgrade service) for my editing needs, I tried Lightroom only to check it out as a raw converter. I found that raw processing was ultimately easier with the software supplied by Olympus for E1 and E500 raw .orf files and the results were identical. The price of LR ( $199.00US) does not make it an attractive alternative for what I already have. I suppose it could be good for someone who is not interested in in-depth editing or does not already own a good raw converter but it's not for me.
As for computers, if Paintshop Pro would run on a Mac I'd buy one tomorrow. Not that I've had any trouble with PC but I don't like where MS is going with Op systems. No trouble with the machines though. I still have my first PC clone which is now 8 years old and still running fine. My newer machine is a Gateway sold in Canada as E-Machines. It gets lots of use and so far so good.
Discussion
16 repliesSo, I will be uninstalling LR and staying with the CS3 upgrade I purchased.
What has your experience been?
How frustrating it must be to be an Adobe engineer
Guy
Great article Guy!! Adobe IS such a tremendous pain to deal with. This is why I'm waitng for Amazon to get the program in stock before buying. Amazon is SO EASY to deal with, and efficient as well.
I thought the old version of Bridge was okay until I tried Aperture. Then I realized how clunky it was. I'm anxious to give the new Bridge a go. I also have Lightroom. I'll try both and compare to Aperture and see which one I keep.
I did. After about 3 years of Dell I finally bought a Mac
Guy
Really sounds like I am down on Adobe. I am not. It just puzzles me why the company would devote so much effort to introduce these 2 programs when just CS3 does the job.
I agree with this thread’s assessment of DELL . . . my experience exactly. I haven't endured, personally, the relayed ADOBE horrors (give me time). However, I don't doubt, for one minute, their veracity. I see this sort of decline increasing geometrically. My experience with United Airlines is comparably hair-pulling.
Recently I have noted a new wrinkle concerning the outsourcing of customer service to foreign countries and the issue of how difficult it is to understand what the customer service rep is saying. Initially it was the case that the service rep would try very hard to make themselves understood; now they are expressly rude if you ask them to repeat what they said. The other day I had a service rep whose name I had to ask to be repeated three times before I got it. It turned out to be Peaches! One wonders who's dishing out the money here -- it makes my eyes tear to note that it's me.
I keep thinking that someone will see this volume of customer frustration as a niche market opportunity, but I wait and I wait and it doesn't seem to go that way.
Maybe, down the road, some sort of ‘Consumer Reports’ will emerge, specifically aimed at rating and detailing corporate America’s level of customer service, or maybe an EBay-style, seller-rating-system will spring into place. That could go some towards impacting corporate bottom lines. A fall in the corporate bottom line might, and I emphasize might, precipitate some small change in customer treatment. I know, I personally have resisted mightily, converting from PC to Mac, but my next computer could well be a Mac.
Laurel
Guy
When I couldn't get my new Mac Pro to start up without blowing breakers in the house, I had to return it. Even though it was only days old, and the packaging immaculate...and even though it wasn't a special order (it came right from the back of the store), and even though my wife bought a $2500 mac book pro and my father-n-law bought a 20" iMac at the same time, they still charged me a 10% restocking fee. There was no expectation that they forego the restocking fee, but considering the situation, it would have been the right thing to do. So...I ordered a Dell with 2x more RAM, 4x more storage, a larger and equally nice wide-screen display...for $800 less than the Mac. I'm not eager to send Apple any more of my money.
I have 33,000 images loaded to a single LR database. They reside on 2 external hard drives connected to a 3 year old laptop with 2 GIG of RAM running Widnows XP - i.e. nothing special. I now have instant access to any subset of these images, using any metadata or keyword criteria that I can imagine - while still maintaining my old folder structure.
I gave up on the LR Betas, but am impressed with the performace and features of the v 1.0 release. It was well worth the $169.15 intro price (with discount code).
I do not see that Adobe is trying to rip off their customers. They included almost all of the new RAW processing features in CS3 and did not force the new, non-destructive ediiting paradigm, along with the required database interface down peoples throats by replacing Bridge and ACR with LR. I'm certain the uproar would have been enormous if they had. We now have a choice and it will be interesting to see how LR evolves, and if it remains a separate program.
I thank Nat Coalson for convincing me to give LR another try.
Guy
As for computers, if Paintshop Pro would run on a Mac I'd buy one tomorrow. Not that I've had any trouble with PC but I don't like where MS is going with Op systems. No trouble with the machines though. I still have my first PC clone which is now 8 years old and still running fine. My newer machine is a Gateway sold in Canada as E-Machines. It gets lots of use and so far so good.