Hey Bernie - well done, and a lovely photo. Keep up the good work!
CJ
Posted by Bernie Kasper on April 24, 2007 at 2:07 PM
Thanks guys, you have helped me a lot with your critique and advice, I have been pretty lucky this spring with my images many people have been bogged down by the weather but this year my timing has been right..unlike most years It has been a wonderful experience to be able to tap into your photographic knowledge here on the MWNP, THANKS AGAIN.
Posted by Robert Helms on April 24, 2007 at 8:33 PM
Very big congrats to you, Bernie. That is a spectcular fern image, and well worth the EP.
I do have to agree with Joel about midwest people never receiving EP awards. Kinda funny in a way. I have received one in the past, but it was in the fauna gallery. I would like to see an EP award in the ESS from the midwest one of these days. I know it's possible judging by some of the images I have viewed, but for some reason they always lose out to mountain images.
Anyhow, Bernie congrats again the award is well deserved
Hey Robert, not to honk my horn, but I did receive an MP/EP (whatever it's called) in the ESS category back in November of last year for an image from the Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore. Doesn't happen very often, but occasionally!
Christopher, you just had to honk your horn didn't you...
I remember that image and EP actually (a well deserved award), I was just poking some fun at the whole scenario. Mike Moats also get's them semi-frequently...isn't he in Michigan? The plain and simple truth is that our subjects here lack the drama that you will find in other regions. That's just being blunt. We don't have the elevation changes or the weather that goes along with them. Drama seems to be the foundational emotional reaction that the majority look for when viewing landscape images. Why do you think Marc Adamus consistently gets 30+ comments on his images? Though drama does occur here in the midwest, ours is generally a quieter story to tell. It is not an unimportant story however.
The land that we photograph is very important to me personally and many others - as well as to the lives of countless variety of plant and animal species. If we aren't willing to raise awareness of the value and beauty of these places, who will? The ecosystems and lands of the midwest are no less worthy of protection than those that the multitudes flock to in order to see nature perform her grandest of symphonies. The fact that people dismiss the midwestern landscapes as boring and of little value seems to make the issue all the more relevant and urgent. I personally find such things to be exponentially more important than earning an EP on NPN. Something tells me that I'm not alone.
Posted by Robert Helms on April 25, 2007 at 8:43 PM
CJ, toot your horn all ya like. Getting an EP in the ESS with such stiff competition is worth some bragging rights. I had to go back and look at the image, and it really is a beauty. Love the light and the clouds. I didn't comment on it, so that must be why I didn't recall the image.
Only on occasion do I even check out the EP thread.
Joel, I completely agree. Though I do have to admit I get the urge to head out west on vacation a lot. I also routinely see images around here that are very striking to me, but it seems to never be on public property. I have little desire to ask for permission from landowners so I just drive by and day dream.
Posted by Bernie Kasper on April 26, 2007 at 10:31 PM
I think this is the second time I have seen this brought up over here so I will jump in,
1: I agree with Joel in that we don't have the landscapes to compete with the west and other parts of the country but that doesn't make us any less skilled photographers than the rest of the country has. If you remember the movie Trading Places, I bet it would be interesting to switch people around different parts of the country for a while to see what happens. I think we will see the results pretty quickly when Jack moves out there and can be really close to the subjects he loves most, I believe we will see some pretty amazing stuff from him pretty soon.
2: I also agree with Robert as well, I believe there is a definite bias for the photographers who shoot these incredible scenes, not saying anything is wrong with that because they are damn good and I am no way in their league. But I have seen many very good midwest or some other less romantic locals being passed up for so-so shots from one of "THE SPOTS" but it's really not that big of a deal and were big boys and girls here and we will live thru it.
3: And number 2 is why I mainly post on the floral board now, because I feel it's the one place you are judged on your body of work and not where it's from. As an example I traveled to the Smokies a couple of weekends ago for wildflowers, did not come back with one image and this isn't the only time that this has happened. But when I came home from that long weekend, I went to the state park 10 minutes from my home and got the fern image, no one really cared where it was from it just that it turned out pretty good.
4: CJ you should toot your horn because you are a damn good photographer along with Robert, Joel, Jack, Josh and Mike and if I left someone out which I am sure I have don't be offended it's getting late and I am running a basketball camp every evening for about 80 elementary and middle school girls, so there I have an excuse
5: Thanks for listening to my sugar induced ramble, this is really a great site, and the photographers here are all very good at what they do and are good people as well. Good nite
Posted by Robert Helms on April 27, 2007 at 12:13 AM
Well said, Bernie. You mentioned something similar to what I have wondered about for some time. What would it be like to switch places. I can say this for certain about the midwest. When it comes to spring and fall the area can hold it's own with any state. The color pallete here is right up there with anywhere else, and in many cases I would say it exceeds most states. I'm certain I've viewed several thousand dogwoods alone this spring. Just more difficult to compose, but very worthy of the effort.
Your also very correct about midwest photographers are no less skilled than those from any other region.
Having said that. I wouldn't want to change places with you. 80 elementary school girls would be far more than I could probably bare. Good luck with that.
Be sure to take the time for photography. There are currently a lot of flowers out there in bloom. And I'm actually considering the purchase of a macro lens because of it.
Ultimately, as with any form art, it seems that we must simply do what moves us. The goal is not to impress others, as much fun as that can be - if that is our mark of achievement, we are bound for disillusionment and disappointment. The need and desire to photograph something must come from within oneself. As St. Ansel put it, the desire is "to express something built up from within, rather than extracted from without". I have no problem with people who feel the need to photograph more exotic/dramatic locations on a regular basis, generally I greatly enjoy looking at their photographs. And, at the end of the day, "subject" does matter. So, what can we who live in the lowely and lacking midwest (sarcasm) do about that?
Approach is one way of addressing the issue. A couple of my favorite photography books were created in ways that focussed as much on the "process" as the subject. For example, Jim Brandenburg's Chased by the Light was created in 90 days, and was the result of only shooting one frame (of film) a day. Most of the subject matter isn't intrinsically jaw dropping, but the book is as intriguing and engaging as any book that I've purchased from somebody who photographs "out west". Another is Craig Blacklock's The Lake Superior Images. In a sense, it was created in the opposite vein of Brandenburg's book that I mentioned. The images were the result of a culmination of 10+ years of photographing Lake Superior, as well as a kayak trip circumnavigating the lake. It's by far my favorite large format book that I own, and I find it inspirational every time I pick it up for a read.
I guess my point is, I think there's way's to overcome the subject driven obsession that we can easily get caught up in. "Vision" is not something to underestimate, it plays an extremely crucial role in the development of a body of work and can really make or break a photographer - no matter where they work. Instead of thinking of places as "competing" (as Bernie bluntly put it, and probably with some degree of truth) with one another for the high crown of most glorious landscape, I think the challenge is to find what we want to say about the world through our images. Maybe that means that some people need to move in order to find a place that they "must" photograph. For others (and I believe for myself), maybe that means developing our sense of connection with the places we already know and love in order to express something deeper about them. Surely, the journey is different for everyone. I know I still have LOTS of exploring left to do in order to find what all the midwest has to offer. In truth, I haven't even scratched the surface. Best of luck all!
Posted by Robert Helms on April 27, 2007 at 4:22 PM
"the high crown". Joel, that comment floored me. Too funny! I do agree with you, and certainly I really don't care what other's think of my images; however, it is nice to know, but in no way does it decide whether or not I trash an image.
The galleries here showcase many of great images, but it gets to the point where the subject matter always repeats. Honestly, it makes me appreciate my own images the more.
Wow gents - great discussion that I completely missed because I was out photographing the Midwest!!
It's great to hear others with the same passion I have for exploring the "local" area, and it's interesting to hear some of the same thoughts I've had before expressed in this forum. I know I'm a bit late to this party, but this was cool to see after just having finished a very enjoyable 4-day photo trip to southeast Michigan.
Hey Joel - I knew I'd get some kind of grief from you! Thanks for chiming in! I will gently disagree with your comments about the drama of the landscape in this area, cause I think it has as much as anywhere else. Then again, that probably says more about how I define the word and how I feel about the area than it does about the actual landscape. Ultimately I love shooting the area (defined very broadly) and so it's slightly possible I'm the tiniest bit biased! (Which I think is a good indication that I and we are doing exactly what you suggested - shooting what we love because we love it and not in expectation of some award, kudos, whatever.)
Robert/Bernie, lots of great points as well, including the trading places discussion. I don't know how that would work - my experience is that I need to spend a lot of time with ANY location before I feel really connected to it. I supposed I could go do another Antelope Canyon shot and get something reasonably interesting fairly quickly, but I think that the type of work I prefer to do takes an intimate knowledge of the location......
OK, gotta go get my film developed and see if those tiny, interesting Michigan wetlands translated the way I want!
You're right Christopher, "drama" probably isn't exactly the right word to use. I guess what I was refering to was the size and scale of the apparent landscape. In other words, the vertical rise between the highest and lowest points of a given area, how far you can see, etc. As always, I'm painting with far to broad of a brush here, but I'm primarily speaking of features that are associated with mountainous regions. Clearly the moments can be as dramatic here as virtually anywhere, though we generally don't have the shifts in weather that are associated with high altitude areas. All in all, it really doesn't matter. There's plenty of people photographing those regions, and I love where I photograph, so in a sense its an irrelevant point. Just blathering as usual.
As you said, I could really care less about making another photograph at Antelope Canyon, another Narrows shot at zion, another Rainer-wildflower image, etc. It's just not what it's about for me. Thankfully, there's plenty of room for lots of different preferences and approaches so everyone can do as they please.
Discussion
13 repliesIt's good to see a Midwest guy make the grade.
Nice work Bernie.
JG
I didn't realize they gave MP's to midwesterners!
CJ
I do have to agree with Joel about midwest people never receiving EP awards. Kinda funny in a way. I have received one in the past, but it was in the fauna gallery. I would like to see an EP award in the ESS from the midwest one of these days. I know it's possible judging by some of the images I have viewed, but for some reason they always lose out to mountain images.
Anyhow, Bernie congrats again the award is well deserved
CJ
I remember that image and EP actually (a well deserved award), I was just poking some fun at the whole scenario. Mike Moats also get's them semi-frequently...isn't he in Michigan? The plain and simple truth is that our subjects here lack the drama that you will find in other regions. That's just being blunt. We don't have the elevation changes or the weather that goes along with them. Drama seems to be the foundational emotional reaction that the majority look for when viewing landscape images. Why do you think Marc Adamus consistently gets 30+ comments on his images? Though drama does occur here in the midwest, ours is generally a quieter story to tell. It is not an unimportant story however.
The land that we photograph is very important to me personally and many others - as well as to the lives of countless variety of plant and animal species. If we aren't willing to raise awareness of the value and beauty of these places, who will? The ecosystems and lands of the midwest are no less worthy of protection than those that the multitudes flock to in order to see nature perform her grandest of symphonies. The fact that people dismiss the midwestern landscapes as boring and of little value seems to make the issue all the more relevant and urgent. I personally find such things to be exponentially more important than earning an EP on NPN. Something tells me that I'm not alone.
Only on occasion do I even check out the EP thread.
Joel, I completely agree. Though I do have to admit I get the urge to head out west on vacation a lot. I also routinely see images around here that are very striking to me, but it seems to never be on public property. I have little desire to ask for permission from landowners so I just drive by and day dream.
1: I agree with Joel in that we don't have the landscapes to compete with the west and other parts of the country but that doesn't make us any less skilled photographers than the rest of the country has. If you remember the movie Trading Places, I bet it would be interesting to switch people around different parts of the country for a while to see what happens. I think we will see the results pretty quickly when Jack moves out there and can be really close to the subjects he loves most, I believe we will see some pretty amazing stuff from him pretty soon.
2: I also agree with Robert as well, I believe there is a definite bias for the photographers who shoot these incredible scenes, not saying anything is wrong with that because they are damn good and I am no way in their league. But I have seen many very good midwest or some other less romantic locals being passed up for so-so shots from one of "THE SPOTS" but it's really not that big of a deal and were big boys and girls here and we will live thru it.
3: And number 2 is why I mainly post on the floral board now, because I feel it's the one place you are judged on your body of work and not where it's from. As an example I traveled to the Smokies a couple of weekends ago for wildflowers, did not come back with one image and this isn't the only time that this has happened. But when I came home from that long weekend, I went to the state park 10 minutes from my home and got the fern image, no one really cared where it was from it just that it turned out pretty good.
4: CJ you should toot your horn because you are a damn good photographer along with Robert, Joel, Jack, Josh and Mike and if I left someone out which I am sure I have don't be offended it's getting late and I am running a basketball camp every evening for about 80 elementary and middle school girls, so there I have an excuse
5: Thanks for listening to my sugar induced ramble, this is really a great site, and the photographers here are all very good at what they do and are good people as well. Good nite
Your also very correct about midwest photographers are no less skilled than those from any other region.
Having said that. I wouldn't want to change places with you.
Be sure to take the time for photography. There are currently a lot of flowers out there in bloom. And I'm actually considering the purchase of a macro lens because of it.
Congrats again
Approach is one way of addressing the issue. A couple of my favorite photography books were created in ways that focussed as much on the "process" as the subject. For example, Jim Brandenburg's Chased by the Light was created in 90 days, and was the result of only shooting one frame (of film) a day. Most of the subject matter isn't intrinsically jaw dropping, but the book is as intriguing and engaging as any book that I've purchased from somebody who photographs "out west". Another is Craig Blacklock's The Lake Superior Images. In a sense, it was created in the opposite vein of Brandenburg's book that I mentioned. The images were the result of a culmination of 10+ years of photographing Lake Superior, as well as a kayak trip circumnavigating the lake. It's by far my favorite large format book that I own, and I find it inspirational every time I pick it up for a read.
I guess my point is, I think there's way's to overcome the subject driven obsession that we can easily get caught up in. "Vision" is not something to underestimate, it plays an extremely crucial role in the development of a body of work and can really make or break a photographer - no matter where they work. Instead of thinking of places as "competing" (as Bernie bluntly put it, and probably with some degree of truth) with one another for the high crown of most glorious landscape, I think the challenge is to find what we want to say about the world through our images. Maybe that means that some people need to move in order to find a place that they "must" photograph. For others (and I believe for myself), maybe that means developing our sense of connection with the places we already know and love in order to express something deeper about them. Surely, the journey is different for everyone. I know I still have LOTS of exploring left to do in order to find what all the midwest has to offer. In truth, I haven't even scratched the surface. Best of luck all!
The galleries here showcase many of great images, but it gets to the point where the subject matter always repeats. Honestly, it makes me appreciate my own images the more.
It's great to hear others with the same passion I have for exploring the "local" area, and it's interesting to hear some of the same thoughts I've had before expressed in this forum. I know I'm a bit late to this party, but this was cool to see after just having finished a very enjoyable 4-day photo trip to southeast Michigan.
Hey Joel - I knew I'd get some kind of grief from you! Thanks for chiming in! I will gently disagree with your comments about the drama of the landscape in this area, cause I think it has as much as anywhere else. Then again, that probably says more about how I define the word and how I feel about the area than it does about the actual landscape. Ultimately I love shooting the area (defined very broadly) and so it's slightly possible I'm the tiniest bit biased! (Which I think is a good indication that I and we are doing exactly what you suggested - shooting what we love because we love it and not in expectation of some award, kudos, whatever.)
Robert/Bernie, lots of great points as well, including the trading places discussion. I don't know how that would work - my experience is that I need to spend a lot of time with ANY location before I feel really connected to it. I supposed I could go do another Antelope Canyon shot and get something reasonably interesting fairly quickly, but I think that the type of work I prefer to do takes an intimate knowledge of the location......
OK, gotta go get my film developed and see if those tiny, interesting Michigan wetlands translated the way I want!
CJ
As you said, I could really care less about making another photograph at Antelope Canyon, another Narrows shot at zion, another Rainer-wildflower image, etc. It's just not what it's about for me. Thankfully, there's plenty of room for lots of different preferences and approaches so everyone can do as they please.