Why I do not buy local...

Hi all.

Yeah, it is me again. Tired of hearing from me yet? I had one more thought to share about the gear purchase that I had to do this last weekend. While I agree that supporting our local businesses is very important; I wanted to share why I usually buy on the internet instead of from a local store.

When I destroyed my D70 on Friday (see this thread if interested) I decided that 1) I did not want to wait for a new body, and 2) I should try to support a local store to build a relationship. I stopped at a local Inkley's store (probably my first mistake). Supposedly they had this great insurance that was affordable for breakage issues. This ended up being untrue (it was NOT affordable) and was my first issue with the whole process.

Next problem was when I asked to buy the 'body only' and the sales guy told me that he worried about people thinking they should use film lenses on a digital body. Huh? Are you kidding me? I assured him that I did it all the time, and that I happened to like the crop factor on most of my lenses. I then dropped some hints about my D70 having 20,000 plus shutter clicks to hopefully let him know that I was somewhat experienced in the realm of photography - but this did no good.

When the sales guy realized that he was not making progress in selling me a D80 kit he tried to sell me a D70s. His reasoning was that 'once you hit the six million pixel mark, the extra pixels really do nothing for you when it comes to making prints". He then went on about some 'border' created at the 6MP mark but by now I had tuned him out. Sigh...

I ended up leaving - telling him that I would think about it. I then found another place somewhat close that did not have the body separately - but they broke up the kit to sell me just the body. Unfortunately I have had some experience with this place in the past with some printing that I was not thrilled with.

So much for building a relationship with a local shop.

Thanks for listening.

Nathan

Nathan, I don't know if you tried Pictureline but I'm sure they'll have what you need and their staff is very helpful.

Guy

Thanks Guy. After the two places this weekend I thought of Puctureline and realized that I should have gone there. In the past it was my impression that they were more of a Canon dealership. Have I gotten the wrong impression?

Nathan

They probably have more Canon than Nikon but last time I was there there was a large stack of Nikon boxes on the floor.

Guy

Nathan,
I think it depends on who you are dealing with...both the store and the salesman. I've had some good experiences with knowlegeable local salespeople who have saved me time and who have swapped out cameras when they have stopped working. Exchanging a non-functional camera for a new in the box one immediately and without question impressed me.

I used to deal with Colonial Photo and Hobby in Orlando when I lived there. Their photo staff is excellent. Their customer service is stellar (when my 1DMkIIN bricked after 3 months of shooting they handled everything with Canon and got it turned around in two weeks). Even though I'm in Savannah now, I still ordered my IDMkIII from them (arriving in late May). Find the right shop with the right staff. Unfortunately I can't find an equivalent pro shop in the Savannah area.

Yeah, unfortunately some places make up stuff because they probably don't know how to use it themselves. I sometimes shop at a local stop, Powell Camera because they are knowledgeable but only answer what I ask, and if they don't know they are honest too. Plus they are polite. Otherwise, I have bought stuff from B&H and Beach Camera because of the pricing.

I did considerable research before I purchased my Nikon D80 and the 50mm f /1.8 and 35mm f /2 prime lenses. The year before I almost got the Canon D20 but Nikon was the better in my price range this year. So I went to the local camera stores knowing exactly what I wanted. This was before I was ready to buy. I wanted to see it. Touch it. Feel its weight in my hands.

Sure enough the clerk in one store tried to talk me into buying something else. Some are more interested in trying to sell slow moving stock. I went to another camera store. This time noone tried to make me change my mind about which camera to buy. We discussed only the camera I was interested in. I found my store.

I then set about researching the best deals. There are three camera stores that deal exclusively with photography and things related to it. The one furthest away had the best prices by far. To avoid travelling costs I would have had to buy online. I went to my chosen store and asked if they would match the prices. They would and did. Weeks later I bought the D80 and the lenses, at the best possible price.

I am happy

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

Hi Nathan. Unfortunately, your experience is pretty commonplace, especially in smaller communities such as where I live. I understand the problem; it's darn hard to find competent help who'll work for what most small shops can afford to pay. Generally the owner and maybe one or two long time workers have great knowledge, but the newbies seem to make up in bluster what they lack in knowledge.

Will: Three in Edmonton? I know of two (and of those I've heard only bad things about one).

McBain's is okay. They have the product (especially at the 107 Ave branch), and I've never had one of their people try to sell me something I didn't want. They're not the cheapest store around, but will match the price of any bricks-and-mortar store in Canada. (Or at least they say they will--I've had them match "The Camera Store" a couple of times without any fuss at all.) But I'm not sure about thier advice... (Luckily, I get all my advice on line!)

The Camera Store in Calgary is very good. And I'm in Calagary often enough that I don't need to make a special trip to go there. Their prices are the best around (for bricks-and-mortar stores in Canada, anyway). I've never tested their advice, but I've heard better things about it than McBain's.

For big lenses, I buy online from the US. The prices in Canada just don't compare for either Canon or Sigma. I saved $300 on my 50-500, and over $1000 on my 300/2.8. (My 17-40 was an exception--I got it at McBain's, price matched to The Camera Store. The B&H price was better; adding $50 shipping, it was still better, but not too much.)

I bought my 20D after the first run had sold out. Nobody in Canada had one to sell me. I called several stores in Edmonton and Calgary, and I think I even called Henry's in Toronto. Every store I called wanted to put me on their waiting list, some wanted money to do that! One person actually told me that if I didn't put my name on their list it would be months before I got one. I went online to B&H and had one in my hands in two days.

Conclusion: I buy local (either McBains or The Camera Store) when I can. If there's a big price difference, or the product is unavailable locally, I have no qualms about buying online.

-Paul

When parting with lots of money (read several hundred dollars), I like to see the human chain of command to the support line. If it's less than 100 bucks, I don't mind buying over the internet or ebay, but anything more, and I need to speak to people who will owe up.

I also find that human touch sometimes gets me sweet deals the faceless internet/ebay cannot.

Sometimes however the sales reps can really start talking about things they don't know about, so I limit the conversation to price haggling only.

Paul, the third one was the Camera Store in Calgary. As for buying online, why can't McBain's, Don's, or the Camera Store match the prices? Don't they buy their stock from the manufacturer at the same wholesale price? If the difference is due to duty and tarrif charges don't you have to pay that when the courier comes to your door? And once you buy from an online store is the product guaranteed, easy to return, if it is not what you expected?

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

Nathan, I agree I buy all major purchases on line. The local camera store has some knowledgeable people, but you must be careful 4-5 years ago I bought my 10 D from a local store. The owner matched the B&H price. However, I also bought some lenses and I found out later I paid a lot more than I would have from B&H. Back then there was a large discussion of digital vs film. The owner spent a lot of time telling me how much time I would end up in front of the computer. when I asked him if it was more than I spent in the dark room he didn't give me a straight answer. Instead he went on a monologue on the benefits of using his new "digital processing and printing service." He seemed more interested in selling this service than the camera. finally I needed a lens hood for one of the lenses. It took after 3 months for him to get it in stock. I had long since ordered it from B&H.

So, I was happy to get a body that was in high demand at the time right away. However all peripheral services were second rate. I now order everything from one of the major on line retailers.

I also wanted to support a local store and the nearest one is a private owned camera store 25 miles away. I called ahead of time and asked about the specific item I wanted and what their hours were. I said "ok great I'll be down there in 30 minutes". You know where this is going...I spend the gas to go to a town I otherwise avoid and the shop is closed- locked up tight 2 hours before closing time and on a Saturday!

Reputable web retailers always beat the local sticker price. Furthermore; my "price", my cost, includes time and the expense of driving up the road to the camera store. When I know exactly what I want, which is most of the time, I buy camera equipment on-line. A few years ago, before the turn of the century, I used to pore over catalogs then use a phone (with a rotary dial, wired to the wall) to order such things. I don't think photo geeks get much value from local shops. Normal people do. I don't really feel obliged to patronize a business for sentimental reasons.

Pete D. not normal and not worried about it

"As for buying online, why can't McBain's, Don's, or the Camera Store match the prices? Don't they buy their stock from the manufacturer at the same wholesale price?"

Manufacturers don't always sell their product to retailers at the same price, retailers that sell a greater volume typically can often negotiate a better wholesale price, ie. Walmart or B&H.

One more possible reason why online can usually beat B&M stores is that the larger sales volume allows them to make less profit on each individual item, but still make up for it by selling more items. This is true even if they pay the same wholesale cost. If the B&M store is looking to make $100 profit on a camera sale, BeachCamera might only care to make $20, and can then sell it $80 cheaper.

My local camera store generally matches B&H on camera bodies, etc. Unfortunately, you have to put up with some know-it-all kid most of the time too. Also, taxes can play a significant role. When I purchased my D2X, I tried to buy it locally, but they gave me such a runaround that in the end I bought online, and saved myself $500 in taxes to boot.

Thanks for that answer, Scott. It seems that the bigger retailers have an unfair advantage. And online stores perhaps even more so because they have very little overhead.

I support the local camera stores for more than sentimental reasons. I want to deal with "real people" and be able to see and touch what I want to buy. And without my support and others like me, the camera store will eventually die out and give way to the Giants, just as the family run corner grocery is a thing of the past.

An enjoyable thread, Nathan.

Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada

Thank you all for the thoughts. I want to support my local stores, as I know they struggle with the internet being so prominent. I just have a hard time when the incompetence runs rampant! In this case I also knew exactly what I needed and wanted...I just did not want to wait for it. In this case it only cost me about $60 extra to have it that day.

Nathan

Nathan :
Quite a ways from Lehi but Farr's Jewelry in Ogden has been pretty good when I have been window shopping. I bought one lens there totally without hassle at a fantastic price. I know one of the salespeople in Inkley's here and he has been great as well but he also knows that I know what I want. Inkleys is part of the Ritz empire and I have the distinct impression that his hands are tied on some things due to Ritz policy. Whenever possible I prefer to buy locally but if the price differential is too great its B&H.
RP

Will: I believe McBain's will match online stores in Canada, if you buy online from them. (If you go into the store, they will match only real stores in Canada.)

They can't match B&H, because they don't buy from the same wholesaler, at least not for Canon and Sigma. They have to buy from Canon Canada. Canon Canada has to buy from its parent, which is Canon USA--the same wholesaler that B&H uses. That extra step in Canada adds to the price. (I'm sure that description is not 100% technically correct, but it's the basic idea.) For Sigma, the Canadian distributer (Gentec International) is not the same distributor as in the US. I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if Gentec has to buy from the US distributor (which I believe is actually owned by Sigma). I don't know what the Nikon situation is, but I suspect it's similar.

-Paul

For the small amount of camera gear I've purchased (as well as any other electronics really), I generally follow a couple of steps.

1) Do some internet research so I know what I'm looking for
2) Try to find the items I want to see at a store, just so I can touch/see/play with them up close
3) Do some searching online for the lowest price - but only at a reputable site (I love CNET, MySimon, etc for this)

Occasionally, I've found that a B&M store will have a lower price, but I believe the last few items I've purchased (A/V receiver, camera, MP3 player) have all been online.

I also skipped step 2 for my MP3 player.

I'd love to see the B&M stores stay in business, for the ability to go somewhere, and see the item - but right now, the prices just can't compete. And I don't put much stock in the employees knowledge, since it seems I can learn a lot more online, and most stores don't seem to employ knowledgeable people (as was already mentioned). Maybe the B&Ms just become front ends for big online warehouses?

Nate,

Next time work with Rex Allen at Allen's camera on State Street in Orem (near 800 North). Rex is a hecka-of- a guy and will work for what you need. I buy all my Nikon equipment through him and yes you can find it cheaper online but this guy is great and backs up his stuff.....

Good to know Daniel. Thanks.

Nathan