After a long leave of absence I have rejoined nature photographers. This is a great website with postings by excellent, often world class, photographers.
I would like to post some photographs of my own but I seem unable to surmount color management issues. My problem is as follows:
1) I have Windows laptop running on Windows Vista.
2) I have calibrated my monitor with Colorvision's Spyder 2.2 software (6500 K, 2.2 Gamma) and the profile is correctly downloaded every time I boot my computer.
3) When I edit my photographs in CS3 for web view, I set the work space as sRGB and make sure that my photographs have been assigned the sRGB color space.
4) When I save the pictures for the internet I get the correct colors but when I preview them in html with the internet icon, the colors are desaturated and shifted. This also happens when I run a proof preview with the Proof Setup set to Monitor RGB.
I don't understand what is going on here.
The picture has a sRGB embedded profile yet it shifts when previewed for html and also when I set it as a background under display preferences.
I have looked at all kinds of forums but could not find an answer.
Could anyone please help me? Your help would be greatly appreciated.
My understanding is that Windows Vista does funky things with the calibration of the graphics cards. Apparently many have had issues with Vista not handling the calibration correctly.
Christoph, What Internet browser are you using? If I remember correctly, some web browsers ignore embedded color profiles. I know Safari works OK since I use that to test my own images, but I don't think Internet Explorer does, and not sure about Firefox. Since it seems to only occur when you view your images in html via the Internet preview feature, it'd be worth checking into.
Thanks for your response. Nancy, I use Windows Internet Explorer. As far as I know, only browsers under the Mac operating system support color management. But surely not all photographers use Mac computers and they still have a good idea of what their colors will look like in the internet?
Ed, you are right about funky. I just realised that my calibration loads, and then, after some time, it suddenly is thrown out and the monitor reverts to its uncalibrated state. Oh boy, I should have bought a Mac....
Christoph, Don't hold me to this, but I think the Vista calibration issue has to do with the security settings. I've heard if you disable that stupid security system (the one that asks you every time you want to do ANYTHING) that it will solve the calibration quirk.
You're right about the Mac. After using Vista on my new laptop I have sworn I will NEVER buy another Microsoft based computer. Bill Gates has gotten his last dollar from me.
As others mentioned, Vista has known calibration issues, and you're right that no browsers under Windows are aware of ICC profile (in fact they all assume sRGB). Still, one thing you may want to try:
1. Convert the document to sRGB (don't assign)
2. When bringing up the "Save for Web" window, click on the little arrow icon above the preview pane and select "Use Document Profile".
Now save the image and see if colors look correct.
Another thing I would recommend is to set your working space to something larger than sRGB. Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB are generally good choices.
Thank you for your advice. I will give it a go. Otherwise I will just have to wait and hope that somebody somewhere will bring out a patch or fix to this.
You say:
(Ed, you are right about funky. I just realised that my calibration loads, and then, after some time, it suddenly is thrown out and the monitor reverts to its uncalibrated state. )
I see this behavior too. In my case the cause is that my graphics card driver (ATI) does its own management, starts up after Colorvision and so overwrites it. I haven't found a way to disable this behavior without giving up other features of ATI that I want such as swiveling my monitor to vertical.
So, I pull the ColorVisionStartup out of the Startup folder and put it on my desktop so I can run it when necessary. This seems to work just fine.
For those of you using Colorvision, it comes with a "Profile Chooser" allowing you to switch between any number of profiles. I keep this on my desktop and quickly change profiles when needed. To overcome David's issue of his ATI graphics card loading after the colorvision profile is loaded, his may be an easier approach.
Right click the desktop
Choose 'Settings" tab and click the 'Advanced' button.
In the resulting box, select the 'Color Management' tab
Look at the list of monitor profiles.
The one you want to use should be 'set as default'.
If there are other profiles listed, remove them. (You can always put them back later, if needed)
If your custom profile is not listed, add it, and be sure it is set as 'default'.
By removing old profiles and leaving your custom profile, you will ensure that Windoze is using the right one. Note that the removed profiles still exist in the System32>Spool>Drivers>Color folder.
I had this issue, too, and it nearly drove me nuts...nuts...nuts! Here is how I solved it:
1) Follow the steps, above, as Preston has outlined. You must get Windows to use the proper, profiled profile, i.e. the profile from the Spyder software.
2) When opening an image in Photoshop that you are going to process for display on the Web, you can use one of two methods.
a) If the image was saved in any other profile other than your default monitor profile, you are presented the option of assigning the "working profile" or assigning the profile (i.e. Adobe RGB, sRGB, etc.) in which the image was saved. Check the box for "working profile". Make your image adjustments, sizing, etc then use "Save for Web" to save the image. You should see very close to the proper colors and density. Or...
b) After opening the image in Photoshop, from the PS toolbar navigate to "Image" > "Mode" > "Convert to Profile". You will be presented a list of color management profiles contained on your PC. Choose the Spyder calibrated profile you created. PS will convert the color profile to your working (default) profile. Post process the image and then use "Save for Web" to save the image.
Thanks for that. I can tell you that this is driving me nuts too. In fact I am trying to uninstall Windows Vista, and not even that works!!!!! What trash are these people selling us?
Anyways, after this slight rant, from your suggestions it looks like this partly may be a mistake I made in photoshop. If I want to post to web, I usually convert to sRGB and then work on the picture - I didn't know that one should first convert to the monitor profile.
You are a genius! It finally works! I followed your first suggestion. Now that I have added a lot of new grey hair, I think I need to shoot a new self portrait.
Discussion
13 repliesAfter a long leave of absence I have rejoined nature photographers. This is a great website with postings by excellent, often world class, photographers.
I would like to post some photographs of my own but I seem unable to surmount color management issues. My problem is as follows:
1) I have Windows laptop running on Windows Vista.
2) I have calibrated my monitor with Colorvision's Spyder 2.2 software (6500 K, 2.2 Gamma) and the profile is correctly downloaded every time I boot my computer.
3) When I edit my photographs in CS3 for web view, I set the work space as sRGB and make sure that my photographs have been assigned the sRGB color space.
4) When I save the pictures for the internet I get the correct colors but when I preview them in html with the internet icon, the colors are desaturated and shifted. This also happens when I run a proof preview with the Proof Setup set to Monitor RGB.
I don't understand what is going on here.
The picture has a sRGB embedded profile yet it shifts when previewed for html and also when I set it as a background under display preferences.
I have looked at all kinds of forums but could not find an answer.
Could anyone please help me? Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Christoph Fischer
Nancy
Thanks for your response. Nancy, I use Windows Internet Explorer. As far as I know, only browsers under the Mac operating system support color management. But surely not all photographers use Mac computers and they still have a good idea of what their colors will look like in the internet?
Ed, you are right about funky. I just realised that my calibration loads, and then, after some time, it suddenly is thrown out and the monitor reverts to its uncalibrated state. Oh boy, I should have bought a Mac....
Regards,
Christoph
You're right about the Mac. After using Vista on my new laptop I have sworn I will NEVER buy another Microsoft based computer. Bill Gates has gotten his last dollar from me.
As others mentioned, Vista has known calibration issues, and you're right that no browsers under Windows are aware of ICC profile (in fact they all assume sRGB). Still, one thing you may want to try:
1. Convert the document to sRGB (don't assign)
2. When bringing up the "Save for Web" window, click on the little arrow icon above the preview pane and select "Use Document Profile".
Now save the image and see if colors look correct.
Another thing I would recommend is to set your working space to something larger than sRGB. Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB are generally good choices.
Guy
Thank you for your advice. I will give it a go. Otherwise I will just have to wait and hope that somebody somewhere will bring out a patch or fix to this.
Regards,
Christoph
(Ed, you are right about funky. I just realised that my calibration loads, and then, after some time, it suddenly is thrown out and the monitor reverts to its uncalibrated state. )
I see this behavior too. In my case the cause is that my graphics card driver (ATI) does its own management, starts up after Colorvision and so overwrites it. I haven't found a way to disable this behavior without giving up other features of ATI that I want such as swiveling my monitor to vertical.
So, I pull the ColorVisionStartup out of the Startup folder and put it on my desktop so I can run it when necessary. This seems to work just fine.
In XP...
Right click the desktop
Choose 'Settings" tab and click the 'Advanced' button.
In the resulting box, select the 'Color Management' tab
Look at the list of monitor profiles.
The one you want to use should be 'set as default'.
If there are other profiles listed, remove them. (You can always put them back later, if needed)
If your custom profile is not listed, add it, and be sure it is set as 'default'.
By removing old profiles and leaving your custom profile, you will ensure that Windoze is using the right one. Note that the removed profiles still exist in the System32>Spool>Drivers>Color folder.
I hope this helps.
-PB
Regards,
Christoph
1) Follow the steps, above, as Preston has outlined. You must get Windows to use the proper, profiled profile, i.e. the profile from the Spyder software.
2) When opening an image in Photoshop that you are going to process for display on the Web, you can use one of two methods.
a) If the image was saved in any other profile other than your default monitor profile, you are presented the option of assigning the "working profile" or assigning the profile (i.e. Adobe RGB, sRGB, etc.) in which the image was saved. Check the box for "working profile". Make your image adjustments, sizing, etc then use "Save for Web" to save the image. You should see very close to the proper colors and density. Or...
b) After opening the image in Photoshop, from the PS toolbar navigate to "Image" > "Mode" > "Convert to Profile". You will be presented a list of color management profiles contained on your PC. Choose the Spyder calibrated profile you created. PS will convert the color profile to your working (default) profile. Post process the image and then use "Save for Web" to save the image.
The above methods works for me every time. :)
Thanks for that. I can tell you that this is driving me nuts too. In fact I am trying to uninstall Windows Vista, and not even that works!!!!! What trash are these people selling us?
Anyways, after this slight rant, from your suggestions it looks like this partly may be a mistake I made in photoshop. If I want to post to web, I usually convert to sRGB and then work on the picture - I didn't know that one should first convert to the monitor profile.
Thank you and regards,
Christoph
You are a genius! It finally works! I followed your first suggestion. Now that I have added a lot of new grey hair, I think I need to shoot a new self portrait.
Cheers,
Christoph