From Cooper Spur ridge (Mount Hood) in the middle of winter at sunset in severe blowing snow conditions. This was one of the few images I fired off before 50mph winds set in and visiblity was reduced to little more than a few feet. I liked the ethereal, isolated qualities of the image. Obviously, no filters were used and the composition was a little rushed. Does it work for you guys at all? Thanks.
Marc,
I would have to say for the first time to one of your images "delete". Well, maybe not go that far. The sky is okay and the blowing snow on the ridge is kind of cool. IMHO of course.
Doesn't work for me at all, Marc. The rocks do a pretty decent job of leading the eye into the photo, but it leads into a big ol' pile of nothing. First one from you I've ever seen where I'd vote it to the trash bin without hesitation.
Oh, I have lots and lots of images worse than this. I just show you guys all the best stuff all the time. I could talk and talk about why this image works for me on some level but it would just bounce off of the viewers, specificly because they were not there. It's one of those images. It has a particular meaning for me that it can't have for anyone else. The "nothing" is exactly what makes it work for me in some way, even if it completely fails in the aesthetic. It's not supposed to be aesthetic at all. It's a depiction of a desolate land in horrible conditions and the darkness and nothing accentuates that. The only spot of light in the sky is a lone, necessary contrast to the rest of the scene which emphasizes just how ugly it is up there. Again, this is NOT supposed to be a pretty picture in any way.
Here is more from the Nothing series. It's about the portrayal of the struggle through harsh climates, desolate places, and the infinite difficulties I encounter along the road to fleeting moments of beauty. This was taken 25 miles into the White Mountains at 12,500 feet in February and I hadn't seen another person in four days.
And I guess I'll just add one more featuring...you guessed it, nothing. Gotta keep you guys guessing when you open up that link. It's more than just a portrayal of harsh climates, it's art. Maybe only I get it. Maybe one of these images will resonate with you for whatever reason. I'll go back to posting pretty pictures tomorrow.
I've been there many times. Feeling and seeing the surroundings and bringing home images that re-live my experience only to have people tell me that the image sucks. It sometimes blinds my judgement on what is a good and bad image.
Don't get me wrong, Eric. I know these images won't appeal to most people. But if people don't see my struggles and failures they might not realize how precious the successes are to me.
Marc,
Thanks for posting these. I completely understand why you shoot and ultimately posted them today. To me, I completely love nature and how much it can vary. Same with the weather...I'm a weather junkie too. If you truely love nature...you HAVE to take the good with the bad...it all blends in to one full experience...Like a roller coaster ride with all the ups and downs...the peaks dont mean as much without the valleys. I dont take the risks you do, but I appreciate and admire the conditions you experience.
I rather like the concept of desolation when done properly. The two you posted subsequently work infinitely better than the first one as I see it. I totally get where you're coming from, but by your own admission in some of those threads Doyle posted, the picture has to resonate on a visual level with people - not just emotions you hope to convey that don't really carry over to those who weren't there in person to experience it all.
Trust me, I could probably sift through your piles of rejects and still pull out dozens if not hundreds of shots that I myself would keep. I have no delusions that you aren't one of the most hardcore landscape photographers on earth at the moment. I only hope that one day I can be as ambitious as you are.
I'm *really* surprised at peoples thoughts on the first image here. As soon as I saw it it created a very strong emotional reaction - empty harsh nothingness - I could reel off many words. Reading the first few comments made me go back to the image to check it was the same one that I looked at just seconds ago. Perhaps it’s just because this type of imagery is totally up my street - a great dark, atmospheric, moody picture.
On the composition I would crop a little off the bottom so that the partial dark stone near the centre is removed. I think cropping that off helps lead the eye in. It would also be great if there was more space at the top above the sunlit cloud to darken in that upper right corner. If there was enough dark cloud above it it could create a great weight to enhance the atmosphere further.
Other than that the composition works well - the diagonals of the foreground, more distant land and then also of the blowing snow and clouds all work together.
On the second image I like the lead in lines and the third is nice. The first lacks atmosphere but neither provide any emotional response that the first one has in absolute total abundance.
It is totally in the eye of the beholder. Tristan found the emotional connection with the first image that I share as well. These are not 'pretty' pictures, so the emotional connection may be found on a different level. But it's definitely there, for me anyway.
>>"but by your own admission in some of those threads Doyle posted, the picture has to resonate on a visual level with people"
And I know these images don't do that for everyone. I had no delusions about that. This is why I asked right up front with the first image if it worked for anyone? I had no expectations that it would but still, I found something in it that made it work on some emotional level for me.
The thing I find interesting about this posting is that many people have expressed disinterest in these sorts of images, but my guess is that many would express interest in similar images if it were fog, rather than snow, that were obscuring the features. Some people don't like images with any sort of obscuring going on, because they hate mystery, or can't stand not knowing what is there. With that being said, the first one to me seems more like a "record shot" or something I would see in a winter backpacking book, warning the reader of the power of mother nature, especially on ridges where trees don't provide shelter. Or perhaps a book called "The other side of landscape photography", where all of the stories of struggles involved in capturing amazing photographs are described and shared.
The third one is my favorite of the three. I curiously cropped it from the bottom to about halfway up, and then realized that you probably composed it as is to avoid having the edges of the cliffs behind the trees run into the top edge...is that correct?
Do you think that any of the top could be cropped off? I cropped a touch of it (about 30px) off just above where the cliffs vanish into the clouds to avoid distraction at the edges, and found it more satisfying to myself than the full version.
Marc, I love the second, B & W image. To eye the first and third images pose questions----is there shelter under the ridge? In the trees? The second, though, captures a feeling of exposure, openness, desolate grandeur....and I guess it's also a "pretty picture." Sorry Marc, if you're capable of shooting an ugly reject, I haven't seen it yet. I'll look up the first one this summer when its really really hot. It makes me think of numb toes!
These are interesting and they speak a lot to me. Differently than the Oh my God shots, of course but that's your goal.
I'd crop some on #1 and #3. #1 without the portion of the bottom center rock make for a much easier guiding of my eye to the "last moments of hope" in the sky.... #3 has better flow with less nothing at the bottom
Some might be shocked that you take shots like this, I'm not. I see even more of the yin/yang of your workflow from you sharing these.
Marc it's nice to see anyone posting what I typically call "C's & D's". I rate my images all the time and I rarely post "C's &D's". And I assume the same applies to the rest of our community. But I think posting them as you have done creates some really productive conversation for us all.
One task I have found to be quite useful is to go back through old image folders to see if anything re-sparks my interest. Sometimes I find images I previously totally dissed but now have renewed potential. I think your second image fits that mold. You may have blown by it upon initial review but after time passes suddenly it works, and works very well.
I also have images that speak volumes to me but provide very little for anyone else. And we all have those. I say keep em!! Print em!!! Their real value comes in keeping us motivated to keep going out and shooting!!!
Photo 1 Marc, you're a whack! I'd be in my sleeping bag right then. BUT, it's pretty wild and wonderful to be out there experiencing the show. Good on you for breaking out the camera and capturing it.
Photo 2 Cool graphic, I like it.
Photo 3 Can't say I'd frame it but I'm sure it'll work well as an ad somewhere. Still though, it's a great mountain scene.
Marc, most of the images you post are about carefully crafted captures of scenic wonders, nature at its very best. These are more about experiences with nature's more eventful but not as pretty other side. You often have to experience these in order to get the others so these show the "rest of the story". Living in Alaska, I see this side a whole lot more than the pretty side so I am quite familiar with the conditions that you're capturing here. I also know how difficult it can be to get an image like the first one. Screaming wind and blowing snow are not very compatible with lenses and electronics (not to mention chill factors on hands and face). I have become quite masterful at pushing tiny little buttons with big fat gloves When I look at the first and third images I get an immediate connection that goes beyond visual. I can feel the sting of the blowing snow and hear the whistle and roar in the first (as lean to the left to compensate for the pressure) and I can sense the dead silence and feel the wet chill in the third. Thanks for sharing the "experience" that gets you to those gorgeous images you post in the ESS forum!
Ok, I'm going to jump in. I totally get what you are going for here Marc, and I like it. People on this forum certainly respond most favorably to the big, in your face, super saturated, grand vista images with eye leading FG+MG+ BG formula of composition. I love this style of imagery too (and I think it translates well to a small computer screen setting). However, some of the most talented and respected outdoor photographers have based entire careers around simplifiying, getting intimate, looking for the subtle and evoking emotions other than simply "WOW". The neon, shock-and-awe type photos look great in magazines, coffee table books and calendars, but sometimes the more simple works make more personal and sophisticated pieces of art. I'm not sure that you have yet acheived the kind of mastery with this style of shooting that you have with your mainstay, but I think you are heading in the right direction. I applaud and encourage you for expanding your horizons. For anyone interested expanding theirs, check out some great "minimalist" outdoor photography. I would suggest http://www.michaelkenna.net/, http://www.romanloranc.com and my friend and one of my mentors, http://www.davidlorenzwinston.com/ to get started.
...and when I said that I "totally get what you are going for", I didn't mean to imply that I know your own personal and private connection with these specific images. Rather, I understand that you derive satisfaction out of shooting situations and subjects with a wider range of perspective than what you normally show on this forum.
>>"some of the most talented and respected outdoor photographers have based entire careers around simplifiying, getting intimate, looking for the subtle and evoking emotions other than simply "WOW"."
I agree. Kenna especially is a photographer I have a lot of respect for.
>>"I'm not sure that you have yet acheived the kind of mastery with this style of shooting that you have with your mainstay"
I don't know. I think it's more a question of focus that mastery. I often see photography with a treasure hunters mentality, working hard to track down that elusive reward, more about planning a particular capture than the creation. The first three images are more a result of my struggles than my intentions to bring the experience to the viewers. There are other occasions where I do completely focus myself on a style more similar to some of the photographers you've referenced. I try to capture a different mood and create a different reaction. Here are a few examples of such thinking. Moderator note: Very small image sizes.
I am, quite frankly, stunned the negative responses on this thread. Marc, I have been studying your work for quite a while now and I have to say that the photos you have shown here are among the most interesting IMHO. I hope you continue to push forward and explore this other side. Good luck.
Marc - I'll have to check out Eric Fredine's stuff. The last three shots are killer and every bit as strong as your full color landscapes in my mind...just different. I really like Fire Lines. Your photography certainly has a big range and I always anticipate seeing what else you've got to share.
Fire Lines knocked me out when you posted it some time ago and still does. & Marc----since you mention Eric Fredine---were you thinking a little bit of him in the single tree image you just posted? & Sean, thanks for the leads, I'm going there now.
Interesting and thought-provoking, Marc, to see the images you posted this time. It makes me think of the other side of Nature-- the darker side: harsh, unforgiving, overpowering, scary, causing difficulty and sacrifice and pain that leads to a feeling of indescribable triumph when you make it out alive with life and limb and memories intact. Thanks for sharing them.
Discussion
31 repliesI would have to say for the first time to one of your images "delete".
Thanks for posting these. I completely understand why you shoot and ultimately posted them today. To me, I completely love nature and how much it can vary. Same with the weather...I'm a weather junkie too. If you truely love nature...you HAVE to take the good with the bad...it all blends in to one full experience...Like a roller coaster ride with all the ups and downs...the peaks dont mean as much without the valleys. I dont take the risks you do, but I appreciate and admire the conditions you experience.
Trust me, I could probably sift through your piles of rejects and still pull out dozens if not hundreds of shots that I myself would keep. I have no delusions that you aren't one of the most hardcore landscape photographers on earth at the moment. I only hope that one day I can be as ambitious as you are.
On the composition I would crop a little off the bottom so that the partial dark stone near the centre is removed. I think cropping that off helps lead the eye in. It would also be great if there was more space at the top above the sunlit cloud to darken in that upper right corner. If there was enough dark cloud above it it could create a great weight to enhance the atmosphere further.
Other than that the composition works well - the diagonals of the foreground, more distant land and then also of the blowing snow and clouds all work together.
On the second image I like the lead in lines and the third is nice. The first lacks atmosphere but neither provide any emotional response that the first one has in absolute total abundance.
Just my thoughts!
Tristan
>>"but by your own admission in some of those threads Doyle posted, the picture has to resonate on a visual level with people"
And I know these images don't do that for everyone. I had no delusions about that. This is why I asked right up front with the first image if it worked for anyone? I had no expectations that it would but still, I found something in it that made it work on some emotional level for me.
The third one is my favorite of the three. I curiously cropped it from the bottom to about halfway up, and then realized that you probably composed it as is to avoid having the edges of the cliffs behind the trees run into the top edge...is that correct?
Do you think that any of the top could be cropped off? I cropped a touch of it (about 30px) off just above where the cliffs vanish into the clouds to avoid distraction at the edges, and found it more satisfying to myself than the full version.
I'd crop some on #1 and #3. #1 without the portion of the bottom center rock make for a much easier guiding of my eye to the "last moments of hope" in the sky.... #3 has better flow with less nothing at the bottom
Some might be shocked that you take shots like this, I'm not. I see even more of the yin/yang of your workflow from you sharing these.
One task I have found to be quite useful is to go back through old image folders to see if anything re-sparks my interest. Sometimes I find images I previously totally dissed but now have renewed potential. I think your second image fits that mold. You may have blown by it upon initial review but after time passes suddenly it works, and works very well.
I also have images that speak volumes to me but provide very little for anyone else. And we all have those. I say keep em!! Print em!!! Their real value comes in keeping us motivated to keep going out and shooting!!!
Photo 2 Cool graphic, I like it.
Photo 3 Can't say I'd frame it but I'm sure it'll work well as an ad somewhere. Still though, it's a great mountain scene.
I agree. Kenna especially is a photographer I have a lot of respect for.
>>"I'm not sure that you have yet acheived the kind of mastery with this style of shooting that you have with your mainstay"
I don't know. I think it's more a question of focus that mastery. I often see photography with a treasure hunters mentality, working hard to track down that elusive reward, more about planning a particular capture than the creation. The first three images are more a result of my struggles than my intentions to bring the experience to the viewers. There are other occasions where I do completely focus myself on a style more similar to some of the photographers you've referenced. I try to capture a different mood and create a different reaction. Here are a few examples of such thinking. Moderator note: Very small image sizes.