I think Mamiya will need to compete with the 1DsMK3, not the 5D.
I'm glad to see Mamiya is finally shipping the system, too bad they couldn't get a jump on the market sooner.
I'm an old 645 owner, but won't be "upgrading" that system.
Actually, as a Canon 5D owner, I am very pleasently surprised at how well it held up against a "Medium Format" digital camera with almost twice the resolution. And that was with the 5D attached to a Tamaron zoom and not an L-glass prime! From your article, only prime lenses were used on the Mamiya. Bottom line, not a really fair "this camera versus that camera" comparison IMO and maybe you didn't mean it to be that type of review. I think Bill is right. The 22MP ZD will have to compete with the next highest-end Canon that we have taken to calling the 1DsMK3. I wish you would have used a 1DsMK2 with prime L-glass as that set-up is currently Canon's closest competitor to the ZD. The ZD looks like a wonderful image-making machine and I hope to see many of your fine images on this site once you get your copy. However, I think your review should mention that, compared to a camera with 10 more megapixels of resolution and being hamstrung by a secondary-market zoom, the 5D did well. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.
I think Bill was implying that the 1DsIII WILL be the competition for the Mamiya - not that it currently is. Of course, that's just speculation. Fun speculation, sure, but who knows what Canon's got next...
I'm not so sure it's fair to compare the 5D to the Mamiya ZD - the price points, and to some extent the target customer, are very different. So they aren't really direct competitors. But for this author, who apparently wanted to go to medium format all along (having tried Hasselblad stuff), this Mamiya system allowed him to make the jump because the price wasn't TOO outrageous. (For him that is. For me, it's incredibly outrageous.)
Sorry, Doug, based on the examples in that review, I agree with Cliff. The 5D holds up remarkably well against a MF back, with twice the resolution and over twice the price.
Yes, the next Canon FF one series camera has not been announced and anyone in the market for a new camera now is welcome to ignore Canon's product cycle.
I'm also at a loss here. It seems that the Mamiya has a slight edge in resolution but otherwise all other things mentioned are at best subjective and entirely unscientific (what the heck is "the difference in 3D?")
There's also some incorrect statements made (DOF is actually smaller with the MF back - it sounds like the author is not too savvy on what the term means and tries to judge it based on the viewfinder image).
The Mamiya has "more bite" as he describes because it doesn't use an anti-aliasing filter. The flip side is pixelation and jagged artifacts which are clearly visible in the 100% crops.
The differences in contrast and color are really more about conversion and processing than anything having to do with the capture.
Overall this sounds like someone trying to justify the money they just spent.
I'm sure the ZD has an edge in some measures, but this article really puts to question whether they are truly worth the extra cost.
I've seen some qualities of CCD that seem superior to CMOS. I don't believe I'm just seeing the lack of AA filter. Perhaps these qualities are subjective, but so is appreciating a beautiful woman.
The ZD back is better than I expected. I don't think this most recent review does much to illuminate the aesthetic difference with DSLR, but this is difficult to do on the web.
For a landscape photographer who prefers a more square format and can live with shooting at ISO 50 or 100 on a tripod, it's an interesting choice. The reviews coming soon on the 1DIII will show the sensor improvements that will be present in the upcoming 1DsIII. The 1DIII file is improved over the 5D.
It's great to get a back at the ZD price point. Phase seems to work hard at controlling used backs and consequently prices with their return for upgrade policy. If Mamiya can exploit others premium pricing, great.
It's an interesting topic. I just listened to Uwe Steinmuller's interview with Charles Cramer where he talks about integrating a Phase One P45 digital back and Mamiya 645 into his work and how it compares to 4x5 film which by the way continues to be my gold standard.
Discussion
11 replieshttp://www.doorhof.nl/blog/index.php?topic=1123.msg3225#msg3225
I'm glad to see Mamiya is finally shipping the system, too bad they couldn't get a jump on the market sooner.
I'm an old 645 owner, but won't be "upgrading" that system.
I'm not so sure it's fair to compare the 5D to the Mamiya ZD - the price points, and to some extent the target customer, are very different. So they aren't really direct competitors. But for this author, who apparently wanted to go to medium format all along (having tried Hasselblad stuff), this Mamiya system allowed him to make the jump because the price wasn't TOO outrageous. (For him that is. For me, it's incredibly outrageous.)
Yes, the next Canon FF one series camera has not been announced and anyone in the market for a new camera now is welcome to ignore Canon's product cycle.
There's also some incorrect statements made (DOF is actually smaller with the MF back - it sounds like the author is not too savvy on what the term means and tries to judge it based on the viewfinder image).
The Mamiya has "more bite" as he describes because it doesn't use an anti-aliasing filter. The flip side is pixelation and jagged artifacts which are clearly visible in the 100% crops.
The differences in contrast and color are really more about conversion and processing than anything having to do with the capture.
Overall this sounds like someone trying to justify the money they just spent.
I'm sure the ZD has an edge in some measures, but this article really puts to question whether they are truly worth the extra cost.
Guy
Well I'll be, Guy. Given Doug's response, I suppose you were right. And there I was trying to use logic.
I've seen some qualities of CCD that seem superior to CMOS. I don't believe I'm just seeing the lack of AA filter. Perhaps these qualities are subjective, but so is appreciating a beautiful woman.
The ZD back is better than I expected. I don't think this most recent review does much to illuminate the aesthetic difference with DSLR, but this is difficult to do on the web.
For a landscape photographer who prefers a more square format and can live with shooting at ISO 50 or 100 on a tripod, it's an interesting choice. The reviews coming soon on the 1DIII will show the sensor improvements that will be present in the upcoming 1DsIII. The 1DIII file is improved over the 5D.
It's great to get a back at the ZD price point. Phase seems to work hard at controlling used backs and consequently prices with their return for upgrade policy. If Mamiya can exploit others premium pricing, great.
http://www.outbackphoto.com/dop_interviews/Charles_Cramer/essay.html