Posted by Kent Staubus on July 11, 2007 at 12:10 AM
Over the years my thinking about what's most important to get sharp photos has been changing. When I first started, I thought you simply had to learn how to hold still when taking the photo. Then I began to think that sharpness was largely due to the lens. When I bought high dollar lenses but still didn't always get the sharpness I wanted, I learned just how important a tripod was. But wait, after really looking hard at tripods, I came to think the single most important thing to sharpness was the tripod HEAD! And that's where I stayed stuck for the past couple of years. Last week I got to thinking about it even more. I was out taking photos with my best lens, tripod, and head--all of which were top quality. There was one variable though; a common one for me. The wind! It was a steady 20 mph and hitting 35 mph in gusts. Even using the tripod with no legs extended, sitting on the ground, didn't guarantee me sharp images all the time. (I've been out in winds here that were hitting over 60 mph.)
So, after thinking about it, I'm now getting the idea that really, maybe the biggest factor for sharpness is......shutter speed? At least for outdoor photos. But wait-- shutter speed is largely determined by ISO! So, maybe what I should be thinking about is how fast a shutter speed I can get on a camera and how clean the camera shoots at a high ISO? If you think about it, with a high enough shutter speed (1/8000,) maybe you don't even need a tripod or VR/IS at all? Of course I realize that lens quality etc. are still factors, but at the moment I'm thinking shutter speed is what I need. Am I off track here?
Kent in SD
Posted by Carol Hyman on July 11, 2007 at 12:21 AM
Ah, Kent, I've recently starting shooting birds, little ones and they move like greased lightening. So I've been going through your same train of thought. I think it's a combination of exposure, shutter speed, using a tripod, a remote release, a good lens, ISO, and guess what! I think it's going to vary from image to image to image.
OK, add to that, being in the right place at the right time and having the eyes or the inspiration to see a scene. One more thing--shooting and shooting and shooting.
I taught UNIX System Administration for years and years and I used to tell my students that Sys Admin was a combination of science and art (sometimes Black Magic) and I truly believe the same is true of photography.
What do the folks say? "I feel your pain." Not really.
Rather than pain, I think of the joy I feel when I look at that perfect photo taken at the right time, the right place, and with the right ingredients.
I have to laugh with Kent on that one. It's a struggle that will never go away, particularly with long lenses and quick subjects. I used to puzzle and puzzle and puzzle over why one image was tack sharp and the next image in a fast burst was not. So many variables, so little time. Now I just shrug and keep on shooting with the faith that craft and art will intersect for me at some point and I'll be happy with what I get. Most days, I am.
If shooting landscapes, don't forget to use the mirror up button and then use a remote release or a 3 second timer to click the shutter. Obviously this won't work for birds or other moving objects though...
Also, many tripods now have a 'hook' at the bottom of the tripod post that you can either hang a heavy weight on (your pack), or use a bungie and step on the cord to pull the post more firmly to the ground.
I find when shooting birds it is impossible and unnecessary to use a remote release. I use the method where you keep one hand on the lens while you press the shutter button with the other. High shutter speed is always nice too, but rarely possible in the mornings and evenings. Hey, if it was easy (and cheap) anybody could do it, right?
Posted by Bill Chambers on July 11, 2007 at 10:30 AM
You're right on everything Kent. All those factors go to make up a sharp image, but mother nature can present a formidable challenge at times. I guess that's what makes photography so much fun!
Kent, I normally photograph flowers with a F/200mm. lens, often at the shortest distance possible, at sunset and sunrise; the wind is the worst enemy of anything leans from a weak stem. It's sure that sharpness is my biggest problem even with tripod and shatter release. Now I am more quite since I use this method: 3-4 shots focusing manually in different points of the subject. In post-production I melt those images that will assure a general good sharpnes where I want it.
It works, within the usual contingences that make life a fashinating everlasting challenge.
Cheers.
Posted by Tom Webster on July 11, 2007 at 11:56 AM
Hi ya' Kent. I think it is a factor of Lens Quality > ISO > Shutter Speed > Tripod Stability. I think Lens Quality and Tripod Stability tie each other for first place as the most important factor. When I am shooting landscapes in a wind I use the same techniques as I would photographing birds. For landscapes: 1) Mount the camera/lens on a sturdy tripod, 2) Push the lens tightly against my face, 3) Place my hand either on top of the tripod ring on the lens (if so equipped) or on the top of the lens settling just a bit of the weight of my hand, 3) Depress the shutter release button slowly and evenly, 4) Turn on IS or VR if the lens has the kind you can use on a tripod. With this method I've been able to shoot at shutter speeds as low as 1/60 sec in a reasonably brisk wind. Give it a try, Kent. Your hands will absorb much of the vibrations of the wind and you will get many more keepers this way, especially when using lower ISOs.
Posted by Richard Ditch on July 11, 2007 at 12:14 PM
Like Charlie and Tom I try to damp camera/lens vibrations by keeping one hand on the lens and the other on the camera/shutter button. I don't have VR on my lens and yet I'm been getting sharp images down to shutter speeds of 1/60, 1/45, 1/30, and even 1/15. Thats with 300mm and a 2x. Tripod is Gitzo 1325 with Really Right Stuff BH-55 and a Sidekick. I almost never tighten down the head. and I can't imageine trying to do this with a cable release. The other factor is to take advantage of the "free" nature of digital and shoot lots of frames so you have a better chance of getting at least one sharp image in a set.
Years ago I would have answered that Panatomic X developed in Ethol Tec was the answer to sharp photos. Now I suspect that good form and breath control are most important unless you are using a tripod or shutter speed in excess of 1/250, but if you aren't using a low ISO, dodn't worry about it because it isn't going to be sharp anyhow! Then again, sharpness isn't always needed to make a photo great and great sharpness isn't enough to make a photo worth looking at.
Posted by Carl Donohue on July 11, 2007 at 5:29 PM
Hey Kent
I think it's important to realize that one factor doesn't discount the other. Even with a high s/s, you still need a sharp lens. And a clean ISO (if using digital). Another factor is one's P/S, or similar, skill. Some folks seem to have a knack for sharpening, and some, like myself, suck at it.
Cheers
Carl
Posted by Kent Staubus on July 11, 2007 at 5:53 PM
I had forgotten about sharpening in PS. That's something I continue to learn, and obviously it has become crucial. The shots I was specifically talking about above were of trains in a landscape. They move at 45 mph, and I've found that the minimum shutter speed needed is 1/500. I also am a polarizer "addict," which eats up almost two stops right there. My 80-400mm lens is just big enough that it catches the wind and vibrates when wind is 20+ mph. I do place my hand on top of the lens and that helps. Lately though I've been experimenting with ISO 800 since the D80 is fairly clean with it. I try for shutter speeds of 1/2000 to 1/4000, which is the max for the camera. With trains, you only get one shot and then they are gone. I photo other things and have the same problems of course. Most of my problem has been with the winds here. There have been times when I've actually set up my tent and taken the photo from inside it. Other times I try to park either my truck or car to block the wind when feasible. It's just recently I've finally figured out that a fast shutter speed may be what I need on those kinds of days.
All of those things are important. Having read your replies, I know that you champion a good tripod. The wind may be a challenge but your good tripod is going to give you better odds than no tripod. You know you can't always use a faster shutter speed. As digital cameras improve, noise at high ISOs will become less of a problem, but I don't see fast shutter speed as being a panacea or a replacement for a good tripod and good technique.
On the other hand, every little bit helps. Upping my ISO and shutter speed helped me get a higher percentage of sharp images on handheld bird-in-flight shots
I know this is probably a subject for a seperate thread but I wonder why, if you are shooting something that is dynamic in nature ( small n ) why remove that by making the image tack sharp, and as a result completely static? Just a thought, Tim
Kent, I use a 3002.8IS with 2x matched with a gitzo 1325 and BH55 ball head. I have found that locking down my ball head before pressing the shutter to be the biggest difference in getting sharper images. I always have one hand on the lock down knob and the other on the shutter button. I guess everyone has a different technique; you just need to find what works best for you.
I think stopping down is more important in getting sharper images than shutter speed so I'm always flirting around the 1/250 sec or lower range.
From a strictly analytical standpoint, there is only one factor - movement. If neither the subject nor the sensor moves, then blur beyond limitations in the optical system is not a possibility. Again from a strictly analytical standpoint, sensor movement can only be eliminated by stabilizing the optical system. However, since sensor movement is a function of exposure time obviously the faster the exposure, the less sensor movement. Ideally at some point, you could produce a sensor with high enough ISO and low enough noise that we wouldn't need to drag tripods around with us or worry about stabilizings technique. I hope to be imaging birds when that happens.
Discussion
16 repliesSo, after thinking about it, I'm now getting the idea that really, maybe the biggest factor for sharpness is......shutter speed? At least for outdoor photos. But wait-- shutter speed is largely determined by ISO! So, maybe what I should be thinking about is how fast a shutter speed I can get on a camera and how clean the camera shoots at a high ISO? If you think about it, with a high enough shutter speed (1/8000,) maybe you don't even need a tripod or VR/IS at all? Of course I realize that lens quality etc. are still factors, but at the moment I'm thinking shutter speed is what I need. Am I off track here?
Kent in SD
OK, add to that, being in the right place at the right time and having the eyes or the inspiration to see a scene. One more thing--shooting and shooting and shooting.
I taught UNIX System Administration for years and years and I used to tell my students that Sys Admin was a combination of science and art (sometimes Black Magic) and I truly believe the same is true of photography.
What do the folks say? "I feel your pain." Not really.
Rather than pain, I think of the joy I feel when I look at that perfect photo taken at the right time, the right place, and with the right ingredients.
Ciao ;^)
Carol
If shooting landscapes, don't forget to use the mirror up button and then use a remote release or a 3 second timer to click the shutter. Obviously this won't work for birds or other moving objects though...
Also, many tripods now have a 'hook' at the bottom of the tripod post that you can either hang a heavy weight on (your pack), or use a bungie and step on the cord to pull the post more firmly to the ground.
It works, within the usual contingences that make life a fashinating everlasting challenge.
Cheers.
I think it's important to realize that one factor doesn't discount the other. Even with a high s/s, you still need a sharp lens. And a clean ISO (if using digital). Another factor is one's P/S, or similar, skill. Some folks seem to have a knack for sharpening, and some, like myself, suck at it.
Cheers
Carl
Kent in SD
All of those things are important. Having read your replies, I know that you champion a good tripod. The wind may be a challenge but your good tripod is going to give you better odds than no tripod. You know you can't always use a faster shutter speed. As digital cameras improve, noise at high ISOs will become less of a problem, but I don't see fast shutter speed as being a panacea or a replacement for a good tripod and good technique.
On the other hand, every little bit helps. Upping my ISO and shutter speed helped me get a higher percentage of sharp images on handheld bird-in-flight shots
I think stopping down is more important in getting sharper images than shutter speed so I'm always flirting around the 1/250 sec or lower range.
Pat