Apologies for the non wildlife post here but I do trust the opinion of fellow wildlife photographers rather than geeks on other forums. I am deciding whether to get a Mac Book or a Mac Book Pro for my 7 week trip to Africa and am finding it hard to decide. I am wondering if anyone out there has either travelled with them or has used LightRoom on them. I am interested in whether the Mac Book with its 2GB max memory can hack the workload and also if it can be calibrated as easily as the Mac Book Pro with its extra graphics card. the MBP is a bit large to take on as carry on with the current 1 bag restriction although it does stuff quite well down the outside of my rucksack.
Any responses really appreciated as I am a bit stuck!
Hard choice Andy.
I went for the pro, simply because it offers firewire 800 connectivity.
Other reasons I had were
I am used to a 17" screen and the 13" max of the MacBook was just too small. There is little difference between the 15" pro and the 13" non pro in terms of physical size, so the carry-on arguement can be discarded.
The pro uses a graphics card as opposed to the onboard graphics the non pro uses, this reduces Aperture performance considerably.
Resale value of the Pro is miles better........maybe not your first concern when choosing kit, but I like to get use out of what I buy and a decent price for it when I'm finished with it.
I travel with mine every w/e, although not on a plane, and would never consider it to be heavy or restrictive.
I don't use Lightroom so I'm no use for a comment on that one
Edit Just another thought.........the glossy screen on the non pro will drive you mad
many thanks, your comments have really helped and swayed me to the smaller one. One question though, why would the on-board graphics card slow down Aperture - that intrigues me as it may affect LightRoom too. Size wise there may be little difference but I tried both last week in the Apple store and the 13 slipped nicely down the back of the rucksack but the 15 was a bit of a push and struggle! Since I am carrying on a 500 f4, 300 f2.8 and two bodies I am restricted to the rucksack that I can use. Mine, without mentioning brands, is small enough not to look too conspicuous, but it does not have a laptop pocket, hence the concerns.
Aperture relies heavily on the graphics card to render the image preview. The more powerful the graphics card on a Mac, any Mac, the quicker Aperture runs.
OS-X hands off a lot of work directly to the graphics processor rather than doing it using CPU - hence the reason why a number of packages are so reliant on the graphics card being a decent spec. From what I've heard, Adobe make a lot of use of their own optimised CPU routines in CS3 and lightroom rather than passing work to the GPU. If that's the case, then they're a little less reliant on beefy graphics cards than Apple's own software is.
Personally, I'd look at the MBPro - with laptops it's always wise to get the most bang-for-buck as their expansion options are so limited.
Calibration wise, there shouldn't be any issues - check that whichever colorimeter you use has an OS-X version available.
I've only dabbled with Lightroom and have found I prefer Aperture, so I can't really give you any comments on performance other than it feels faster than Aperture - just doesn't have the same functionality for me.
Out of interest - why the potential change to Mac as lightroom runs on both PC+Mac?
Probably not the time or the place but I was in Waterstones this morning and I saw your book on Penguins. Absolutely lovely so I bought it. Not bad considering I went in to buy a map of Tuscany!!
Hi Nick, long time no speak, hope you will drop by at the bird fair.
I changed to MAC completely about two months ago with a Mac Pro workstation top of the range jobbie which is awesome. Just works and does what it says on the tin, I had enough of using PC's for my workflow and needed something else for In-Design and packages such as this. So I tried a MAC and loved it, since then I have unfortunately become a MAC geek. So it is natural that for my 7 weeks away I will get ride of my old PC laptop and use a Mac of some kind, hence the question here.
The reason I asked about calibration was simply that I wondered if the graphics card provided extra features like the ability to tweak the profile slightly to my own tastes as I do now. Sure I calibrate tightly with my Lacie but I do make slight adjustments based on experience.
Lightroom, now that is a story. Last year when they took over Pixmantec I was spitting fire and refused to have anything to do with it. Then when i changed to Mac I compared C1, LR and Aperture for output quality and workflow. Of course this is entirely personal and subjective, but LR's output was much better in terms of sharpness, detail and highlights. I converted and processed like for like and checked my findings with a mate who just happens to edit a digital photography magazine. Sure the backgrounds sometimes has a bit of noise but this is of the consistent type that is easily wiped out by Noiseware. I also find that the correction tools on LR are more sophisticated and do more without introducing extra noise. Other than that I hate the LR workflow and much prefer Aperture but for me, in my life, it is ultimate image quality that getty and corbis judge my images on so I will use LR for now. But Apple have been interested in my views and I take a look at all new versions of Aperture as they come out with the hope of using it. But so far, again IMHO, in terms of pure output quality LR still wins hands down; for workflow I use other products like Photo Mechanic so have no need of Aperture's features in this area.
Like I said good to hear from you and as always NPN is a great forum
Thank you Craig, anyone who suffers my penguin book should be congratulated. Next Feb I will be bringing out my first big coffee table book called Concepts of Nature with the best of my work from the past ten years. It has been fun to write and to see how my work has improved out of sight since those early days, god I am amazed how those images continue to sell. Anyway mucho gratefulo.
Calibration tweeking will be down to software that comes with the colorimeter
Like I say, Aperture wins for me...it's about image management & versioning more than image correction - if I want n'th degree quality then I can export the RAW & use other tools if needed. Interested to hear that you like PM - I found it too cumbersome when compared to Breezebrowser & just couldn't get along with it. Different strokes....
Just read your dilema!
It has to be the mac book pro,I'm running the 15" with max ram,I agree with the comments regarding aperture above but your shots processed with lightroom are spot on so no problem there,the screen quality surpasses most pc laptops that i've played with and I use mine now as the main computer its that good,it is also faster in my opinion when using photoshop comapared to the macbook,but I suspect you will me using your mac pro when you get back for your main editing?Be aware that there has been a problem with the macbooks shutting down for no reason,this may have been sorted over the last couple of months but take that into account(they turn off at will!)
Love your new osprey shots,outstanding!!!!!
Yep, I just got tired of PC's and I had the most powerful loaded workstation money could buy. Since I am now starting ebooks and things like that it made sense to move to Mac and like I said I will never regret it.
I think what you mean is "for me it is about image management and versioning" whereas I think for others like me it is about ultimate quality and squeezing every last ounce out of the RAW file. I would rather take the integrated hi-fi approach and use the best product for image management, the best for correction and the best for finishing. But that is just me, you and probably every other photographer is different!
BB god I gave up with that years ago, too slow and too cumbersome to caption and keyword multiple groups of images. With PM you just paste on to the stationary pad and you can keyword / caption hundreds of images in seconds. But I have heard a lot of people who can't get on with it either, like I said if we were all the same then some software company would be mage rich...oh I forgot they all are. Gotta sign off now as have a book to finish and need to start my midnight writing session, keep in touch and I have enjoyed this very much.
Cheers Craig, missed your post as I was typing the other one. I think that the Mac Book Pro is wining me over slightly, hmmmm hard decisions. ta for the osprey commeents I have been updating the blog almost daily with new work as I am pumping it out. But at a cost...no going out and taking pictures.
I sit here typing on my new MBP after contemplating the same decision you are facing. I think the MB has a tougher case and maxed out with features, it's a far better laptop than my PowerBook G4I was looking to replace.
This MBP is a very nice machine, and will be my only computer with a few external hard drives as back-up.
If I had a desktop set-up, I would prolly lean towards a MB for travel. Will you really be able to discern the difference in 5400 rpm vs 7200 rpm's on the road? At $2000 difference in a maxed out machine ... the cheaper may be a better "travel" option. Take that and a few Lacie external HD's and another alternate storage device (i.e. Epson P4000, 4500, Flashtrax or other) and you'd ready for any troubles you may encounter. You could still edit, teach and burn discs if you chose to send backups home.
Cheers Nurse Bob, you have mirrored my sentiments exactly. With a powerhouse at home I need the laptop to just quickly edit when I am away, write stuff and teach stuff to my clients. This year I have my 7 week africa trip and next year an 8 week trip to India, both with clients, so will need a decent machine so that they can see the screen! But I looked at the MB and the screen looked very clear, difficult decision for me.
Backups I use two combinations of Jobo Giga Vu Pro Evolution as the main downloader and Jobo GigaOne as the backup hard / disk. It works because the GigaOne is also a downloader, albeit a basic one, so I have an emergency option there too.
I think I will take another trip to the Apple Reseller today with my rucksack and see but I am leaning towards the MB for its portability.
I was looking at buying a new laptop earlier in the year. I had come to the conclusion that the 15-inch laptops are just too big and heavy for travel. I considered the MacBook but decided against it because of the lack of a graphics card. There has also been some difficulties in colour calibration of the recent Mac laptops, across the range, though this isn't really an issue for me. In the end I decided to get a Dell 12-inch XPS laptop. It is small light and powerful. With your Intel-based G5, it doesn't really matter if you use a Windows laptop or a Mac. One thing to be aware of, is that the graphics processing in the MacBook isn't really up to doing slide shows; its too slow, or was when I was looking at them. Something you might want to check.
Edit - I'm talking about slide shows with a digital projector here.
Hi Phil, that was the kind of info on the calibration that I was after, I had heard rumours of such problems. So are you running Vista on the Dell? This decision is getting more difficult by the second, maybe I had better use my old laptop for the presentations and get something a bit better for travel. Hmmmm
Andy, I specified XP on the Dell. You can, or could, and probably still can do that. Lots of businesses are still resisting the Vista upgrade and I'm sure Dell is doing business with them. You may have to talk to a rep though, rather than order online. This time of the month you may get a bargain as well if they are looking to fill quotas. The MacBook though would be a great choice if you are looking just for something to download to, and for initial editing while travelling.
Hi Phil, I really want to resist a PC so it will have to be one of the MAC twins. I am leaning towards the PRO, only because of the extra graphics card and the fact that it will be a lot easier for people to see my demos on it! Thanks mate for your help.
Over the last few mounths I converted to Mac notebook, I pretty much wanted it for the same reasons as you, a little apprehensively I brought the 15 inch Macbook pro 2.4 with the 2gb memory I run CS3 and I really pleased with it and would not go back to a PC. It boots fast, runs fast and just works.
I calibrated it using a Spyder 2 Pro and colour wise it’s near to my 24 inch Dell monitor, when I plug the monitor into the Macbook the colours spot on. I think the difference is due to the Macbook having a different type of LCD display.
One other thing I went for the anti-glare screen because the reflections form the glossy drive me crazy, but the glossy screen is supposed to be better for viewing photos.
Thanks Colin, this is getting harder to make the choice by the minute!! I have been doing a lot of research online looking for all the pros and cons, I think that it will just come down to money and if I can spare it for the MBP.
Posted by Paul Everett on July 20, 2007 at 9:05 AM
I am probably joining this too late but for what its worth I bought a MB because of size and portability and have had no problems with it. CS3 works a treat, its very fast, the screen is excellent, its very comapct and tough, and just what I need when I go away. If I was using it as main machine at home then it would be another story, but for travelling the MB is perfect for me.
Andy - if you can, try and book some time with a Mac Genius at the Apple Store - take the demo of LR with you along with a few of your RAW shots - eg on CD/DVD or on a USB memory stick. Get the genius to install the demo of LR onto a MB & MBP and then try it out on some real stuff - that'll show you how well you can live with either machine - ie picture quality and responsiveness. Once the Apple Store guys know you're serious and not just in to muck around with the iPod's they're happy to spend time with you...and I'm sure you can name drop too
Hi Nick, we think alike as I have already tried this and got refused because it was not "apple software" - they would only demo Aperture and after 30 seconds I realised I knew more about Aperture than they did. Not much of a genius, guess there is a variation. It is almost getting to the pin in the map stage!
Personally, I'd go for the higher powered machine - it's never lost. At the end of the day, whichever you go for, you should be able to get a decent resale price for the machine. Size matters, but there's nothing like power
As to only Apple software...that's why they also have Adobe CS suite loaded on a number of demo machines . You could always try sneaking in to PC World with a USB memory stick . You got any 'independant' Apple resellers in your area - they may be a bit more sympathetic to you trying stuff out...
Discussion
27 repliesAny responses really appreciated as I am a bit stuck!
I went for the pro, simply because it offers firewire 800 connectivity.
Other reasons I had were
I am used to a 17" screen and the 13" max of the MacBook was just too small. There is little difference between the 15" pro and the 13" non pro in terms of physical size, so the carry-on arguement can be discarded.
The pro uses a graphics card as opposed to the onboard graphics the non pro uses, this reduces Aperture performance considerably.
Resale value of the Pro is miles better........maybe not your first concern when choosing kit, but I like to get use out of what I buy and a decent price for it when I'm finished with it.
I travel with mine every w/e, although not on a plane, and would never consider it to be heavy or restrictive.
I don't use Lightroom so I'm no use for a comment on that one
Edit Just another thought.........the glossy screen on the non pro will drive you mad
many thanks, your comments have really helped and swayed me to the smaller one. One question though, why would the on-board graphics card slow down Aperture - that intrigues me as it may affect LightRoom too. Size wise there may be little difference but I tried both last week in the Apple store and the 13 slipped nicely down the back of the rucksack but the 15 was a bit of a push and struggle! Since I am carrying on a 500 f4, 300 f2.8 and two bodies I am restricted to the rucksack that I can use. Mine, without mentioning brands, is small enough not to look too conspicuous, but it does not have a laptop pocket, hence the concerns.
Many thanks once again John
Andy
Personally, I'd look at the MBPro - with laptops it's always wise to get the most bang-for-buck as their expansion options are so limited.
Calibration wise, there shouldn't be any issues - check that whichever colorimeter you use has an OS-X version available.
I've only dabbled with Lightroom and have found I prefer Aperture, so I can't really give you any comments on performance other than it feels faster than Aperture - just doesn't have the same functionality for me.
Out of interest - why the potential change to Mac as lightroom runs on both PC+Mac?
I changed to MAC completely about two months ago with a Mac Pro workstation top of the range jobbie which is awesome. Just works and does what it says on the tin, I had enough of using PC's for my workflow and needed something else for In-Design and packages such as this. So I tried a MAC and loved it, since then I have unfortunately become a MAC geek. So it is natural that for my 7 weeks away I will get ride of my old PC laptop and use a Mac of some kind, hence the question here.
The reason I asked about calibration was simply that I wondered if the graphics card provided extra features like the ability to tweak the profile slightly to my own tastes as I do now. Sure I calibrate tightly with my Lacie but I do make slight adjustments based on experience.
Lightroom, now that is a story. Last year when they took over Pixmantec I was spitting fire and refused to have anything to do with it. Then when i changed to Mac I compared C1, LR and Aperture for output quality and workflow. Of course this is entirely personal and subjective, but LR's output was much better in terms of sharpness, detail and highlights. I converted and processed like for like and checked my findings with a mate who just happens to edit a digital photography magazine. Sure the backgrounds sometimes has a bit of noise but this is of the consistent type that is easily wiped out by Noiseware. I also find that the correction tools on LR are more sophisticated and do more without introducing extra noise. Other than that I hate the LR workflow and much prefer Aperture but for me, in my life, it is ultimate image quality that getty and corbis judge my images on so I will use LR for now. But Apple have been interested in my views and I take a look at all new versions of Aperture as they come out with the hope of using it. But so far, again IMHO, in terms of pure output quality LR still wins hands down; for workflow I use other products like Photo Mechanic so have no need of Aperture's features in this area.
Like I said good to hear from you and as always NPN is a great forum
So, another one fed up of PC's 'eh!
Calibration tweeking will be down to software that comes with the colorimeter
Like I say, Aperture wins for me...it's about image management & versioning more than image correction - if I want n'th degree quality then I can export the RAW & use other tools if needed. Interested to hear that you like PM - I found it too cumbersome when compared to Breezebrowser & just couldn't get along with it. Different strokes....
Just read your dilema!
It has to be the mac book pro,I'm running the 15" with max ram,I agree with the comments regarding aperture above but your shots processed with lightroom are spot on so no problem there,the screen quality surpasses most pc laptops that i've played with and I use mine now as the main computer its that good,it is also faster in my opinion when using photoshop comapared to the macbook,but I suspect you will me using your mac pro when you get back for your main editing?Be aware that there has been a problem with the macbooks shutting down for no reason,this may have been sorted over the last couple of months but take that into account(they turn off at will!)
Love your new osprey shots,outstanding!!!!!
See you at the birdfair!
Cheers
Craig
www.craigchurchill.co.uk
I think what you mean is "for me it is about image management and versioning" whereas I think for others like me it is about ultimate quality and squeezing every last ounce out of the RAW file. I would rather take the integrated hi-fi approach and use the best product for image management, the best for correction and the best for finishing. But that is just me, you and probably every other photographer is different!
BB god I gave up with that years ago, too slow and too cumbersome to caption and keyword multiple groups of images. With PM you just paste on to the stationary pad and you can keyword / caption hundreds of images in seconds. But I have heard a lot of people who can't get on with it either, like I said if we were all the same then some software company would be mage rich...oh I forgot they all are. Gotta sign off now as have a book to finish and need to start my midnight writing session, keep in touch and I have enjoyed this very much.
I sit here typing on my new MBP after contemplating the same decision you are facing. I think the MB has a tougher case and maxed out with features, it's a far better laptop than my PowerBook G4I was looking to replace.
This MBP is a very nice machine, and will be my only computer with a few external hard drives as back-up.
If I had a desktop set-up, I would prolly lean towards a MB for travel. Will you really be able to discern the difference in 5400 rpm vs 7200 rpm's on the road? At $2000 difference in a maxed out machine ... the cheaper may be a better "travel" option. Take that and a few Lacie external HD's and another alternate storage device (i.e. Epson P4000, 4500, Flashtrax or other) and you'd ready for any troubles you may encounter. You could still edit, teach and burn discs if you chose to send backups home.
Hope this helps ...
Backups I use two combinations of Jobo Giga Vu Pro Evolution as the main downloader and Jobo GigaOne as the backup hard / disk. It works because the GigaOne is also a downloader, albeit a basic one, so I have an emergency option there too.
I think I will take another trip to the Apple Reseller today with my rucksack and see but I am leaning towards the MB for its portability.
Thanks again for the respnse.
Edit - I'm talking about slide shows with a digital projector here.
Over the last few mounths I converted to Mac notebook, I pretty much wanted it for the same reasons as you, a little apprehensively I brought the 15 inch Macbook pro 2.4 with the 2gb memory I run CS3 and I really pleased with it and would not go back to a PC. It boots fast, runs fast and just works.
I calibrated it using a Spyder 2 Pro and colour wise it’s near to my 24 inch Dell monitor, when I plug the monitor into the Macbook the colours spot on. I think the difference is due to the Macbook having a different type of LCD display.
One other thing I went for the anti-glare screen because the reflections form the glossy drive me crazy, but the glossy screen is supposed to be better for viewing photos.
Regards
As to only Apple software...that's why they also have Adobe CS suite loaded on a number of demo machines