Well, it was certainly an eventful trip to the North Rim this weekend. We got into the park just about an hour before sunset on Friday and I decided to run up to Point Imperial. The storm clouds were amazing! As I was tinkering with a few things in my bag, a huge gust of wind came up and I was barely able to get a hand on one leg of my tripod to avoid donating my camera to the NPS! I was able to get one shot before the rains came. We decided to just sleep in my truck rather than driving all the way back outside the park to camp on NFS land, bad idea!! Apprently you arent allowed to "camp" in your car in a designated parking lot! We were woken up in the middle of the night by a ranger and told to leave the park. There are no signs at Point Imperial saying "No overnight parking". I was pissed, but just decided to leave and let my frustrations subside over night.
The next morning we got up nice and early and drove back to Pt. Imperial for sunrise. Went down to the lookout and passed a gentelman on the way who was set up about 15 feet back from the end of the lookout facing east. I proceded to go to the end of the walkway and set up looking southwest towards Mt. Hayden. The sunrise was wonderful, and afterwards we went for a short rim walk. Upon returning to the car park, that same gentleman was waiting for me to tell me that he didnt appreciate what i did. He said, "you came and set up right in front of me!" I told him "Sir, you were set up a good 15 ft away from me, facing the other direction." He said it was his "intention" to move to the end of the lookout and shoot towards Mt. Hayden eventually. He used a few four letter words that I didnt appreciate, and really made a jerk of himself. Apparently I didnt realize that if you're the first person at a viewpoint, you have exclusive rights to the entire area! He said "well, maybe i should have made my intentions more clear". Well, he didnt make anything clear, and even if he said he was going to shoot towards Mt. Hayden eventually, its not my job to move out of the way. He was there before me and decided to set his camera up in an area that he wasnt even going to shoot. Am I wrong here?
The rest of the trip went pretty well. We spent some time out around Bright Angel in the afternoon. It amazes me how many people just stay around the lodge. There must have been 400 cars at the lodge area, and maybe 50 out at all the viewpoints combined. We ended our day out at Cape Royal with an amazing light show near Wotan's Throne. Even if the shot doesnt come out, it was still magical to see in person.
This morning I decided to head back to Point Imperial for one last sunrise. The clouds were boring, and the sun would be rising in a cloudbank to the east. Of course, when I got there, the same man was there, and with the poor skies, I decided not to even get out of the car. So all in all, it was a great trip. Got some great shots (i hope) and had some interesting encounters. Hopefully I'll have images to share by the middle of next week.
I think the other man was clearly out of line. It would be one thing if you literally walked into his current composition, or got in his shot as you setup. Since you did not, I think the burden would be on him to communicate to you that he had a composition in mind he wanted to try in a few minutes that your location might jeopardize. Since he did not communicate with you, he was out of line for being upset that you could not read his mind.
I think most National Parks have the rule the camping is only allowed in designated areas. Therefore, unless you sign that says camping is permitted, one would be subject to the unfortunate awakening you suffered. Not saying I agree, but I think that is the rule.
I'm glad you were still able to have a decent trip. Can't wait to see your pictures!
Posted by Kalin Wilson on July 29, 2007 at 8:27 PM
Adam, I agree, you didn't do anything wrong. People should be able to work around each other. I sounds like you are considerate. I have seen people blatantly walk into my compositions - usually non-photographers.
Still, I'm sometimes amazed at the selfishness and thoughtlessness of people, sometimes other photographers. I mentioned the workshop at Clear Lake that went walking right through someone's campsite in another post. In Yankee Boy I was shooting on the road when a caravan of SUVs rolled past and parked in a narrow section of the road, unloaded, and stayed there; another workshop. As I walked past a couple of minutes later, I mentioned to the drivers and the workshop leader that they weren't parked in a very good place and they would force other drivers to drive off the road to get around them. They weren't concerned; That was where they wanted to be.
I've camped in my truck (llegally) in several national parks and been rousted by more than one ranger in the middle of the night. Although it may not always be posted at each and every parking lot, it is always illegal to camp overnight in a national park without a permit. Don't get upset with them as they are only doing their job. I feel your pain, though!
I agree that the guy who went off on you was most definitely in the wrong. He sounds like an idiot, if you ask me.
Look forward to seeing some of your photos from the trip!
Posted by Todd Caudle on July 29, 2007 at 11:25 PM
Great photos from your first sunrise will be your sweetest revenge. Call me confrontational, but I relish the thought of some jerk-off who is clearly in the wrong trying to lay into me, because I'll take great pleasure in shoving his tripod right up his bunghole! Figuratively speaking, of course.
As for the NPS parking lot camping, I guess I'm glad it's not allowed, otherwise everyone would do it. But that doesn't mean I haven't car camped illegally in the past. Jerry and I slept in the back of his truck at the Clingman's Dome lot a few years ago. The biggest bummer is the paranoia associated with the act. Every set of headlights that enters the lot makes you hunker down a little lower in the bag in hopes that, if it is a ranger, he won't notice you. I've always wondered if you could just say, "I'm sorry, I didn't realize that it wasn't okay, but now that I'm here and it's 3 o'clock in the morning and all, if I were to leave now in my state of tiredness, I'd basically be the equivalent of a drunk driver out on the road. Do you really think that's a good idea, Mr. Ranger, sending me out on the road where I could possibly harm myself or others? Nighty-night!"
Posted by Bill Pelzmann on July 29, 2007 at 11:48 PM
Dang, that guy needs to find another hobby! Photography is obviously too stressful for him.
Fortunately most people attracted to this hobby are pretty mellow out in the field.
Todd, let us know if that line ever works for you.
I agree, turning NPS parking lots into campgrounds would be a really bad idea.
Awfully nice of you to still call him a "gentleman."
Cynthia Spence
www.geolightphoto.com
Posted by Laurent Baig on August 3, 2007 at 3:02 PM
No fault of yours on the other 'tog. He's a ja'ss. Never mind him.
Remember you have no rights to public land in the NPS. It's for the horses. I've renegaded a few times in JTree, but most parks are very hostile to "wrong-doing."
Discussion
7 repliesThe next morning we got up nice and early and drove back to Pt. Imperial for sunrise. Went down to the lookout and passed a gentelman on the way who was set up about 15 feet back from the end of the lookout facing east. I proceded to go to the end of the walkway and set up looking southwest towards Mt. Hayden. The sunrise was wonderful, and afterwards we went for a short rim walk. Upon returning to the car park, that same gentleman was waiting for me to tell me that he didnt appreciate what i did. He said, "you came and set up right in front of me!" I told him "Sir, you were set up a good 15 ft away from me, facing the other direction." He said it was his "intention" to move to the end of the lookout and shoot towards Mt. Hayden eventually. He used a few four letter words that I didnt appreciate, and really made a jerk of himself. Apparently I didnt realize that if you're the first person at a viewpoint, you have exclusive rights to the entire area! He said "well, maybe i should have made my intentions more clear". Well, he didnt make anything clear, and even if he said he was going to shoot towards Mt. Hayden eventually, its not my job to move out of the way. He was there before me and decided to set his camera up in an area that he wasnt even going to shoot. Am I wrong here?
The rest of the trip went pretty well. We spent some time out around Bright Angel in the afternoon. It amazes me how many people just stay around the lodge. There must have been 400 cars at the lodge area, and maybe 50 out at all the viewpoints combined. We ended our day out at Cape Royal with an amazing light show near Wotan's Throne. Even if the shot doesnt come out, it was still magical to see in person.
This morning I decided to head back to Point Imperial for one last sunrise. The clouds were boring, and the sun would be rising in a cloudbank to the east. Of course, when I got there, the same man was there, and with the poor skies, I decided not to even get out of the car. So all in all, it was a great trip. Got some great shots (i hope) and had some interesting encounters. Hopefully I'll have images to share by the middle of next week.
Adam
I think most National Parks have the rule the camping is only allowed in designated areas. Therefore, unless you sign that says camping is permitted, one would be subject to the unfortunate awakening you suffered. Not saying I agree, but I think that is the rule.
I'm glad you were still able to have a decent trip. Can't wait to see your pictures!
Still, I'm sometimes amazed at the selfishness and thoughtlessness of people, sometimes other photographers. I mentioned the workshop at Clear Lake that went walking right through someone's campsite in another post. In Yankee Boy I was shooting on the road when a caravan of SUVs rolled past and parked in a narrow section of the road, unloaded, and stayed there; another workshop. As I walked past a couple of minutes later, I mentioned to the drivers and the workshop leader that they weren't parked in a very good place and they would force other drivers to drive off the road to get around them. They weren't concerned; That was where they wanted to be.
Hope you got some great shots! Be sure to share!
I've camped in my truck (llegally) in several national parks and been rousted by more than one ranger in the middle of the night. Although it may not always be posted at each and every parking lot, it is always illegal to camp overnight in a national park without a permit. Don't get upset with them as they are only doing their job. I feel your pain, though!
I agree that the guy who went off on you was most definitely in the wrong. He sounds like an idiot, if you ask me.
Look forward to seeing some of your photos from the trip!
As for the NPS parking lot camping, I guess I'm glad it's not allowed, otherwise everyone would do it. But that doesn't mean I haven't car camped illegally in the past. Jerry and I slept in the back of his truck at the Clingman's Dome lot a few years ago. The biggest bummer is the paranoia associated with the act. Every set of headlights that enters the lot makes you hunker down a little lower in the bag in hopes that, if it is a ranger, he won't notice you. I've always wondered if you could just say, "I'm sorry, I didn't realize that it wasn't okay, but now that I'm here and it's 3 o'clock in the morning and all, if I were to leave now in my state of tiredness, I'd basically be the equivalent of a drunk driver out on the road. Do you really think that's a good idea, Mr. Ranger, sending me out on the road where I could possibly harm myself or others? Nighty-night!"
Fortunately most people attracted to this hobby are pretty mellow out in the field.
Todd, let us know if that line ever works for you.
I agree, turning NPS parking lots into campgrounds would be a really bad idea.
I'm looking forward to your images, Adam.
Cynthia Spence
www.geolightphoto.com
Remember you have no rights to public land in the NPS. It's for the horses. I've renegaded a few times in JTree, but most parks are very hostile to "wrong-doing."
Glad you had a good trip.