Posted by Fred Stearns on August 11, 2007 at 7:20 PM
This morning while I was watching and photographing a herd of Big Horn Sheep, Ewes and Lambs, on Mount Evans, I heard a shot. All the Big Horns instantly jumped up. Within a couple of minutes, they had all disappeared over the hill. Like a dummy, I assumed that, as a wilderness area, there would be no hunting. I eventually reported it to a couple of rangers at the summit. They acted like I was an idiot. As long as they are a half mile off the road, hunting is perfectly OK on ANY National Forest land. It is open season now on Marmots and the man doing the hunting, a repeat hunter known to the rangers, was legally hunting with a shotgun. Actually, I thought it was a rifle, not being an expert in such things. If I hear it about 3/4 of the way up to the summit and hes was a half mile from me, he was not anywheres near a half mile from the road starting from Summit Lake. A point brought up by one of the rangers, not me.
I know that National Forests are open to hunting, but I was under the impression that wilderness areas were closed to motorized vehicles and to hunting. Am I alone in this mis-understanding?
Posted by Todd Caudle on August 11, 2007 at 11:23 PM
I doubt you're alone in that misunderstanding, but you are wrong. Wilderness areas are open to hunting. The trick is getting your kill out of the wilderness without the aid of an ATV. Many hunters simply skin and clean the animal on site, and pack out the parts.
I watched two hunters right near La Veta Pass open fire on a bull elk and his harem a few years ago. At the time I wasn't aware that you only needed to be (if memory serves me correctly) 50 feet from the centerline of a road, which they maybe were just barely. But there's something about seeing a truck pull off onto the shoulder, two guys jump out with rifles and open fire from a barbed wire fence on a herd that just didn't seem very sporting to me. Apparently they were clients of the Forbes Ranch, and the DOW had told them that they really needed to keep their clients' hunts on ranch land and away from the highway, seeing as how they have thousands of acres to hunt on. It was pretty pathetic, and I made sure I told them so.
Wow - open season on marmots. I know they can be pesky campsite raiders, but up around Summit lake that is essentially shooting fish in a barrel. I'm not a hunter, so I am biased from the start, but these stories just seem sad (pathetic?) to me...
I mean come on - a shotgun? There can't be a whole lot of skill in that, nor can there be much left of the marmot?
Posted by Rick Dunn on August 12, 2007 at 10:11 AM
It seems less common here than in Wyoming and Montana, but hunting is legal in wilderness areas. In addition to packing out the parts as Todd said, I've seen hunters coming out with the 'trophy' head strapped to their backpack. That makes for one bizarre image....
The important question for this situation, however, is...did that hunter have to pay the entrance fee?
A shotgun for a marmot, though... Hmmm. I guess RPGs and bazookas aren't allowed in wilderness areas. I mean, if it were me, my plan would be to select a weapon that - like wilderness areas themselves - has multiple uses. In addition to killing the marmot, I would want the kill shot to actually launch the marmot out of the wilderness area so that I could swing by with my ATV and haul it outta there. It also reintroduces some element of skill back into the process. Now you have to calculate body mass, wind speed, trajectory, drag coefficients - anything that could influence where your prey may land - and then map those variables to a weapon of appropriate magnitude. A deer, for example, might call for a substantial directional charge or laser guided bomb launched from a drone, whereas your average marmot could be propelled a good 200 yards or more by a Bouncing Betty landmine. All of this is, of course, assuming that one can even track down a marmot because, as the images here clearly demonstrate, these guys are freakin' elusive. They're the Osama bin Laden of forest critters. I mean, they're not going to just walk right up to you and pose. You need a recon team to find one these guys, and then... then you can only hope that they don't take flight into the forest utilizing the full magnitude of their legendary alacrity. These guys aren't called Diablo Fantasma (devil ghost) for nothing. I say "good hunting" to you hunters who have chosen to play predator to such a challenging prey. You have chosen to stalk one lissom beast, and you would be wise to choose a weapon that mitigates your inferior physical and intellectual capabilities.
disclaimer: I have nothing against hunters or hunting, only the manner in which the sport plays out at times. Some situations just beg to be satirized.
Posted by Fred Stearns on August 12, 2007 at 1:21 PM
Fifty feet from the centerline of the road? EGADS! The rangers on Mount Evans were explicit that it was 1/2 mile, possibly because the Mount Evans Wilderness road is so heavily trafficked. I do not know the hunting laws in Colorado, but those states that I am familiar with prohibit firing from or over a road. Fifty feet is barely off the road and could be considered to be shooting from a road.
Rick, the next thing we know, they will be hunting with cruise missiles.
Personally, I do all my hunting with a camera. I can shoot the same animal thousands of times and they will still be waiting for me the next time I am out. In my opinion, wolves and other predators take out the weak of the herd. Hunters take out the cream. It is so bad that the White Tail Deer in central Texas have been selectively bred for spike antlers, the trophy racks are available on private hunting ranches ($$$$$$), and we are dealing with chronic wasting disease.
Posted by Todd Caudle on August 13, 2007 at 12:49 AM
Chronic wasted disease? Sheesh, sounds like my entire 20s. What? wasting? Oh, nevermind.
I'm also one who isn't opposed to hunting, even though I find the practice personally abhorent. Back when I was a columnist for the Colo. Springs Gazette, my favorite interview was with Ted Nugent. When we should've been talking about his upcoming tour (he described his previous one opening for Bad Company as "arm-wrestling a paraplegic."), we instead spent most of our time talking about Colorado's then-upcoming vote on the spring bear hunt. I was with the Nuge on that topic: let wildlife managers manage wildlife. They'll certainly do a better job than forest managers are doing with our turning-brown-quickly forests! Or one would hope...
Rick: You sure have come up with some doozies lately.
I'm still chuckling over the images but this thread puts it all in perspective. This is really the beginning of a new reality show..."When Marmots Attack!"
Personally, if I'm across a valley from someone popping rounds at fuzzy woodland creatures I'd much prefer he be using a shotgun. I've had too many solid projectiles whiz past my ear in my lifetime and with a shotgun I can be assurred that if I keep 200 yards between us I'm relatively safe.
Discussion
6 repliesI know that National Forests are open to hunting, but I was under the impression that wilderness areas were closed to motorized vehicles and to hunting. Am I alone in this mis-understanding?
I watched two hunters right near La Veta Pass open fire on a bull elk and his harem a few years ago. At the time I wasn't aware that you only needed to be (if memory serves me correctly) 50 feet from the centerline of a road, which they maybe were just barely. But there's something about seeing a truck pull off onto the shoulder, two guys jump out with rifles and open fire from a barbed wire fence on a herd that just didn't seem very sporting to me. Apparently they were clients of the Forbes Ranch, and the DOW had told them that they really needed to keep their clients' hunts on ranch land and away from the highway, seeing as how they have thousands of acres to hunt on. It was pretty pathetic, and I made sure I told them so.
I mean come on - a shotgun? There can't be a whole lot of skill in that, nor can there be much left of the marmot?
The important question for this situation, however, is...did that hunter have to pay the entrance fee?
A shotgun for a marmot, though... Hmmm. I guess RPGs and bazookas aren't allowed in wilderness areas. I mean, if it were me, my plan would be to select a weapon that - like wilderness areas themselves - has multiple uses. In addition to killing the marmot, I would want the kill shot to actually launch the marmot out of the wilderness area so that I could swing by with my ATV and haul it outta there. It also reintroduces some element of skill back into the process. Now you have to calculate body mass, wind speed, trajectory, drag coefficients - anything that could influence where your prey may land - and then map those variables to a weapon of appropriate magnitude. A deer, for example, might call for a substantial directional charge or laser guided bomb launched from a drone, whereas your average marmot could be propelled a good 200 yards or more by a Bouncing Betty landmine. All of this is, of course, assuming that one can even track down a marmot because, as the images here clearly demonstrate, these guys are freakin' elusive. They're the Osama bin Laden of forest critters. I mean, they're not going to just walk right up to you and pose. You need a recon team to find one these guys, and then... then you can only hope that they don't take flight into the forest utilizing the full magnitude of their legendary alacrity. These guys aren't called Diablo Fantasma (devil ghost) for nothing. I say "good hunting" to you hunters who have chosen to play predator to such a challenging prey. You have chosen to stalk one lissom beast, and you would be wise to choose a weapon that mitigates your inferior physical and intellectual capabilities.
disclaimer: I have nothing against hunters or hunting, only the manner in which the sport plays out at times. Some situations just beg to be satirized.
Rick, the next thing we know, they will be hunting with cruise missiles.
Personally, I do all my hunting with a camera. I can shoot the same animal thousands of times and they will still be waiting for me the next time I am out. In my opinion, wolves and other predators take out the weak of the herd. Hunters take out the cream. It is so bad that the White Tail Deer in central Texas have been selectively bred for spike antlers, the trophy racks are available on private hunting ranches ($$$$$$), and we are dealing with chronic wasting disease.
I'm also one who isn't opposed to hunting, even though I find the practice personally abhorent. Back when I was a columnist for the Colo. Springs Gazette, my favorite interview was with Ted Nugent. When we should've been talking about his upcoming tour (he described his previous one opening for Bad Company as "arm-wrestling a paraplegic."), we instead spent most of our time talking about Colorado's then-upcoming vote on the spring bear hunt. I was with the Nuge on that topic: let wildlife managers manage wildlife. They'll certainly do a better job than forest managers are doing with our turning-brown-quickly forests! Or one would hope...
Rick: You sure have come up with some doozies lately.
Personally, if I'm across a valley from someone popping rounds at fuzzy woodland creatures I'd much prefer he be using a shotgun. I've had too many solid projectiles whiz past my ear in my lifetime and with a shotgun I can be assurred that if I keep 200 yards between us I'm relatively safe.