Digital P&S recommendations?

I am looking for a high quality digital P&S. I would like something that shoots RAW. The more MP's the better, along with a nice sharp lens.

Any recommendations?

Harley, I don't have any specific advice, but you might want to head over to DPReview and use their Buying Guide->Feature Search link to look for P&S cameras with RAW. This might give you some idea of what's out there - I found it very useful when looking for my camera, since you can specify just about anything. Good Luck.

I bought a Fuji E900 with RAW capabilities. I've had it a year or so. It's a good camera, 9 mpx...but the RAW feature is practically useless. The noise is horrible. If I were in the market for one, I'd definitely look for one with IS. Maybe there's one out there with good RAW capabilities now, so check around, but it's not the E900!

Exactly what do you intend to use the camera for? Makes a really big difference as to what I'd recommend. Also, what price range? As for pixels, the dirty little secret is that sometimes they try to cram too many on those little sensors, and the result is noise. MP is about the last thing I look at with these cameras.


Kent in SD

Panasonic makes a Lumix series that offers a variety of Mp counts and a Leica f2.8 lens. Beautiful sharp clear lens on a P&S. Sweet IQ. I echo what others have said about noise with packed Mp counts on tiny sensors. Unless, of course, you're going to shoot it at low iso, which will be some help there.

I agree with the suggestion to check out DPReview. It's an invaluable resource. Also, too many pixels adds noise, as stated above, when they are crammed into a tiny sensor that you'll find in a P&S. Each pixel ends up being very small (2-4 microns) and small - noisy. That is probably the issue with the earlier post - RAW doesn't cause noise. The one problem you'll find with just about any P&S is the max aperture. With the cost of SLR's being where they are now I would strongly urge you to look at these as an alternative. They will make seeing what your composing much easier and can be used as P&S if that's what you want.

Leica M8 ? In the absence of any other parameters it would appear to fit your bill but personally I think you are seeking the holy grail. You'd best set out your desires, rate them, decide on which you are prepared to compromise and then search the review sites. If you have raw capture at the head of your list as a 'must have regardless' I fear your list will be short.
However in an effort to be more helpful

http://www.bythom.com/compact.htm

http://www.lulu.com/content/224352

Sigma announced the DP-1 (http://www.sigma-dp1.com/), an APS-C Foveon sensor with 28 mm equivalent lens, a great concept at least for landscape IMO.

Thanks for the info. I plan to use it for landscapes and stock shots. I will toss it in the pack with a 4x5. I have a 5D, and this is not intended to replace a dslr. Top $ is probably in the $600 range.

I spent some time over at dpreview and a few other sites. It seems that most of the higher end P&S cameras have been out for some time and are a little long in the tooth. Most have been out since 2004 or 2005. I am wondering if all the companies will soon be announcing new lineups, with improved technology . I might just wait and see if the Sept show yields any announcements.

Carsten, that Sigma sure does look interesting!!! Great concept, hope the product matches the design.

Canon announcements will be coming out, if they follow tradition, late in August. You need to remember that the reviews on dpreview are an archive of all those they've done. Try looking at them in chronological order. Actually the "lifespan" of most p&s cameras is 12 to 18 months before the replacement is announced, though often there is little reason to trade up to the new one.

The industry is currently in a megapixel race. The problem is that as the physical size of the pixel goes down, the ratio of noise (relatively constant) to signal (dependent on the size of the pixel) increases. Eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns, where the noise has reached a relative level that requires more vigorous noise reduction, which in turn reduces resolution, so that the result is no real increase in resolution. If you continue to increase megapixels beyond that, you reach the point where resolution actually declines.

For the 1/2.7" sensor, the point beyond which further pixels add nothing seems to be around 7 mp. The (6 mp) Canon S3is based on that sensor has recently been replaced by the (8 mp) S5is which has some worthwhile added features, but the IQ of the S5 at 8 mp is just about the same as the S3is. The larger 1/1.8" sensor seems to have held up so far at 10 mp (Canon A640, and G7), but if there's a new A6xx series camera announced this month, it's apt to be 12 mp, and that could be hitting the wall for the 1/1.8". Try looking for cameras with the 2/3" sensor.

Addendum: I forgot to mention, the diagonal measurement of the 1/2.7" sensor is 6.7 mm, the 1/1.8 is 9 mm, and the 2/3 is 11 mm.

Will

Good info, Will. Thanks

Anybody have any experience with the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX2 or the Leica version D-LUX 3?

Gotta wonder why you would dilute your efforts shooting with a low quality camera like that when you already shoot 4x5 and a 5D. My $.02

Doug,

All about weight and size. The 5D weighs too much and is too bulky to take along with the 4x5. Just looking for something I can use for snaps and for stock shots. No plans to use it for images I plan to print.

Similar to what you're planning to do, I carry a 4x5, D2X and an Olympus C-8080 p&s. It's an 8MP camera with RAW. Images are sharp - it's a great lens w/ 5x optical zoom (28mm - 140mm). It's higher in the price range for a p&s, but has more capability than the average p&s in many regards. It's quite a bit larger than the average p&s, but with 8MP and a sharp lens, even grab shots can be printed when I get that occasional shot that really works out. I use it primarily for casual shooting while hiking, when I don't want to be stopping and pulling out the SLR. Noise is good at ISO 100 and below (goes down to 50), but above that it's noticeable. With Noise Ninja, I get very nice images/prints even up to ISO 400, though the noise in the RAW file will be substantial. The last 3 rows of images in my Canada Trip gallery were taken with the C-8080, except for the goat image.

On backpacking trips, I carry the 4x5 and the C-8080 only, and am very comfortable knowing that anything I capture with the p&s will be printable up to 16x20, larger if necessary via uprezing techniques.

More along the lines of something that is reasonably capable and very fun, my wife has a 5 MP Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ1 that I've recommended to several people (the newer version is the TZ3 with 7.2MP). It has a 10x optical zoom (that's fun!), anti-shake technology, the best looking LCD of any camera I've seen and it fits in your pocket. The images at 10x - even with anti-shake - are noticeably softer than average, but workable. I'm probably going to pick up a TZ3 for when I travel for work - the combo of size, opitcal zoom, antishake and a phenomenal LCD - not to mention a very reasonable price - are hard to beat.

I have an older, discontinued Canon PowerShot G5. It is a 5MP P&S that captures raw files. I still go back to it for family and friend outings when I don't want to lug the D200, et al, with me. It takes better images than my newer Canon SD700IS that is 6MP (but only captures jpg files). The G5 captures a full 12-bits of data per pixel.

I just looked at a couple of raw files shot with the Leica D-LUX 3. Both were shot at ISO100. One was a basic sunset over the ocean. Without any noise reduction, the noise in the entire sky was appalling, just terrible. While I don't expect a P&S file to match my 5D, is this normal?

I have read a lot of complaints on the noise of the D-LUX 3. I guess what I saw just matches what others have seen.

I'm really interested in Canon's new Powershot G9. They reimplemented RAW, which they had done away with on the G7. 12.1 MP too. On paper it looks like a great camera.

I just downloaded the dpreview sample shots. Looks like a bit of noise at 200 ISO, but not too bad. Far better than the Leica D-LUX 3 at 100. I plan to shoot it at 80 or 100 97% of the time.

I placed at pre-order for the G9 and am waiting to see how the reviews shape up at various sites, such as dpreview.

I bought a Canon SD800i 7mp camera for a trip to family and friends in late June. The image stabilization is a must have, IMO. The images out of it are way better than I expected. Even hand held at arms length at 105 mm equiv the images are tack sharp and the Digic processor takes care of a lot of noise. I did some architectural photography at a place in Denver with it and actually sent some sample cards to its gift shop. Way easier than shooting RAW and unbelievably fun just to play with.