Posted by Leann Greene on August 14, 2007 at 9:51 PM
I read this in the paper
Of course being lower middle class I resent the affluent being more entitled to the good locations but what is the county thinking? There are NO jobs in this area= no money and I believe these developments put more demand for fire depts and such that these communities just cannot support.The thought comes up that hmmm maybe some comissioners are getting a new homesite in a prime new development
Posted by Lori Kincaid on August 15, 2007 at 12:38 AM
Ok, this is it. I say we make a call to arms. I'm willing to put my heart and soul, not to mention my brain, into an effort to prevent this. Who's in?
Lori
Posted by Leann Greene on August 15, 2007 at 1:04 AM
Yes Ma'am,
I'm in.
Posted by Jerry Greer on August 15, 2007 at 1:11 AM
Lori,
The only way to stop it is to buy the land. As we've found out with Rocky Fork, money talks! The great thing is that we have a big enough group/groups to go after the funding and the Conservation Fund had the balls to sign the contract of the 10,000 acres (about 40 million dollars). Now we just have to finalize everything. At the moment we have a glitch in our proposal due to politics and the Republican base of East Tennessee. David Davis is our big problem, he’s up for re-election! It's all about the votes and nothing else! I'm sick of these bastard politicians and their flip-flopping when the rich and mighty twists their panties! At some point we’ve got to take back our government!
Posted by Lori Kincaid on August 15, 2007 at 2:41 AM
I'm with you Jerry. Money talks and BS walks, there ain't no doubt about it, especially in this day and age. But, you have to start somewhere and my guess is there's no money around to stop this develop today right now. What did y'all do wih Rocky Fork? I'm guessing you raised awareness, you evaluated the plans on the merits, and you made reasoned and impassioned arguments about why it should be protected as much as why it shouldn't be developed, while also trying to raise funds. And my hat is off. I do believe there's hope now for Rocky Fork which to me is community action at its finest.
I know nothing about the proposed Wilson Creek development except what I read in the Charlotte Observer article. But it sounds to me like it's on the way to happening right away, right now, unless somebody can go to the next meeting of the county commissioners and convince them to postpone judgement. Here's are some of the first things we need to do:
-- Obtain a plat of the proposed subdivision and then document the land for its inherent aesthetic value as well as its ability to handle increased sediment loads, storm water runoff, and (potentially) steep slope development, among other considerations.
--Compare the proposed development to existing zoning requirements and ordnances. Are there any violations? From the C_O article it appears there are.
--Research local decisions regarding development, including the county history and rationale for overturnng existing ordnances
--Research the letter of the law and Congress' intent with the Wild and Scenic River designation. For example, are there precedents for requiring, or at least encouraging development of an Environmental Impact Statement in this situation?
--Contact conservancy groups to see if they have any interest in preserving these lands ( which may include conducting a biological survey to identify any rare or endangered species).
-Go to the county comissioners meeting and tell them what we've found.
It's never easy when local citizens take on developers, because often they're *starting* from an extreme disadvantage: They love the land, but have no money and know nothing about the law, while the developers know the law, have a lot of money, and care nothing about the land. This we can overcome!
Leann, I knew I could count on you to be in. If you can get a plat from your local county comissioners office or registrar of deeds or wherever that information resides in your county, I can come and walk over the land with you. I'll email you to discuss what we need to do next.
We also need pictures, pictures, pictures, of one of the prettiest places in the southeast.
Come on, SENP, who else is in?
I'm seeing this ALL OVER in Rutherford County... no jobs, no money, the mills have shut down, yet people flocking in from FL and up north buying up homes in developments that are springing up everywhere. The land prices are skyrocketing, yet most of the the local folks can't afford it. And the beautiful natural areas are all being turned into housing developments. I don't know how much I can contribute to getting involved...I'm overextended now...but I'll keep up with the thread and do what I can.
Posted by Lori Kincaid on August 15, 2007 at 10:56 AM
Richard and Leann, You guys are on it! Those are great links to get us started. Alice, you and everyone else can make a huge contribution by writing a letter to the Caldwell County commissioners! It only takes a minute and if enough people write it can definitely make a difference. Richard provided the link and Leann provided a good example. I recommend reading the article Leann listed above before writing a letter for some good additional context.
Lori
Posted by Harry Davis on August 15, 2007 at 12:07 PM
The baby boomers are just beginning to retire... the vast majority will be retiring within the next 10 to 15 years. Many are wealthy and want to retire in a beautiful setting. The developers know this and unless the state buys land like this or conservation organizations like Nature Conservancy come to the rescue, there isn't much hope. As many of you know, a Florida developer is trying to take the land around Stumphouse Tunnel and Isaqueena Falls in Upstate SC but the Nature Conservancy and others jumped in immediately and have raised money to purchase the land and are working closely with county council. There is a chance that the land can be saved. Something like that will have to happen at Wilson Creek. I contacted Kristen Austin who works for TNC in the Upstate and sent her a link to the article... I'll let you know what she says.
P.S. High profile golfers like Tiger Woods moving into the area should give us all a pretty good idea of what the future holds. It almost feels like we're slipping back into the days of the "robber barons".
As was mentioned earlier, money does speak loudly.
But lets not lose sight of the fact that this is a two-way street. Make this point in your letters. I am not from the area, but the only reason I DO visit is to enjoy places like Wilson Creek. When I am there, I spend money on hotels, restaurants, etc. Good economics and preservation of wild places are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts. This ain't politics of the 1970s.
Also, be sure emphasize the gravity of their decision. Go ahead with the development and the decision is irreversible. It cannot be undone. Most politicians are cowards and are much more motivated by avoiding mistakes than taking chances.
Posted by Leann Greene on August 15, 2007 at 2:46 PM
I agree that we should atleast make it known that they are being watched and include personal experiences so it isn't anonymous anecdotal.
Alice, You bring up great points-the local economy is fumbling and that shouldn't make for a better target for this. Remember just 2 months ago there was a moratorium put in place to put off development considerations for a year-what changed??
Posted by Wade Hardy on August 15, 2007 at 7:42 PM
Hi Lori and everyone - I do not live close to Wilson Creek, but I will do anything I can to help. I have sent an email to Chairman Higgins and I will write a letter to the rest of the Commissioners. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help. I would hate to see this become a Wild & Scenic Development instead of a Wild & Scenic River.
Wade
Posted by Lori Kincaid on August 16, 2007 at 9:37 AM
Good discussion here. Harry, let us know what your contact at the TNC has to say. If the county commission doesn't approve this subdivision right away there will be opportunities to try to raise funds. I've looked at the plat for the property and it's almost entirely surrounded by national forest, which makes it more attractive for purchasing by a conservation group or state or federal government.
Richard makes great points. The economic value to the county of recreational users who are there throughout the year in great numbers would probably exceed property tax dollars and other revenue from second home owners who visit sparingly, are fewer in number, and don't spend as much money over the long-term.
Leann, the moratorium on development was unanimously approved by the commissioners on June 4. Here's what an article in the local paper said:
"The sole purpose of this is to allow time for a plan to be developed by the Planning Department and the commissioners,” Commissioner Dr. John Thuss said. “That river is everyone's river. It's not owned by anyone.
“We are not opposed to development, but if we don't do something now, the opportunity will be lost.”
The Charlotte Oberver article implies the plan has been developed, but that would be very quick. I plan to search the Caldwell County public records to see if any plan has been made available to the public. Either way, this is certainly an issue to be raised in our letters.
Wade, thanks for the offer to help! I think the main thing right now is to write that letter. Leann and I are going to try to walk over the area this weekend. We'll let everyone know what we find.
Been following the topic here but I received a email from Judy Walker ,President of the Mecklenburg Audubon Society. She posted the following :
North Carolina
Wildlife
Federation
Affiliated with the
National Wildlife Federation
www.ncwf.org
HELP PROTECT WILSON CREEK - A FEDERALLY DESIGNATED WILD AND SCENIC RIVER!
Wilson Creek, which flows 23 miles from Grandfather Mountain to the Johns River in Caldwell County, is one of only 4 rivers in NC designated as National 'Wild and Scenic'. Wilson Creek is also designated as an “Outstanding Resource Water” by the NC Department of Environment & Natural Resources, the state’s highest water quality classification. It is one of the most pristine bodies of waters in NC and is a popular destination for anglers and paddlers.
However:
On Monday August 6 the Caldwell County Planning Board passed a zoning request by a Florida developer – The Archer Group - which would allow the development of nearly 650 acres along Wilson Creek. This tract includes both sides of the creek and roughly lies between the confluence of Lost Cove Creek to the north downstream to the confluence of Harpers Creek to the south. The Brown Mountain Beach Rd, and the Edgemont Rd., both state maintained roads, follow the creek through this property for approximately 4.5 road miles as they parallel Wilson Creek.
The developer has requested to build two bridges spanning the creek (note: no development has occurred along Wilson Creek since the 1900's mainly due to frequent severe flooding and washing out of bridges) and multiple road accesses to the development.
Even though a 1-year development moratorium put in place by the Caldwell County Commissioners, the Planning Board, by a 5-4 vote approved this request.
Wildlife Impacts
This development could have disastrous effects upon the Wilson Creek watershed with regard to cold water fisheries, wildlife habitat, and overall water quality. There will be a huge increase of sediment loading of the water due to road and lot clearing. Loss of vegetative cover will inevitably cause more run-off into the aquatic resource! In addition, implications of the proposed development, including septic tanks, public access, and having a homeowners association “managing” more than 4 miles of a Wild and Scenic river presents serious ecological concerns. This news is terrible for the downstream fishery as well as the beauty of a normally crystal clear body of water.
Wilson Creek was designated a National Wild and Scenic River seven years ago. In the history of Wild and Scenic Rivers there has never been development of this magnitude allowed after being so designated.
What can be done:
The good news is that the developer must take this request before an open public hearing on Monday August 27 at 6pm. At this hearing the county commissioners will decide the fate of this ill-conceived development.
If you have ever fished, paddled, hiked or birded in this area, and you care anything about the future of Wilson Creek, please attend the meeting and voice your opposition to the proposal.
Ask the County Commissioners to:
· Slow the planning process and take the appropriate time to plan for the adequate protection of Wilson Creek
· Reject the development proposal and allow adequate planning
Tell them:
· A lot of hard work went into getting Wilson Creek, a national treasure, designated as a Wild and Scenic River, and;
· You value and travel to their county to enjoy the eco-tourism that Wilson Creek offers.
Public Hearing: August 27 at 6pm – 905 West Avenue NW, Lenoir, NC - in the basement level of the Caldwell County offices.
If you cannot attend the meeting, please email and call the Commissioners:
Contact Info:
Caldwell County Commissioners: Contact phone number (828) 757-1300
Chairman – Faye Higgins http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/fayehiggins/
Vice-Chairman – Ron Beane http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/ronbeane/
Vice-Chairman – Don Barrier http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/donbarrier/
Vice-Chairman – Herb Greene http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/herbgreene/
Vice-Chairman – Dr. John Thuss http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/johnthuss/
Your calls, emails and comments can make a difference for fish and wildlife now and for generations to come!
Posted by Lori Kincaid on August 16, 2007 at 12:04 PM
Thanks for posting this, Mike. I'm hoping we're going to see a lot of action as these well-organized groups get involved. Right now I'm planning to attend that county commissioners meeting and I hope others can work it into their schedule, too. With enough pulbic outcry the commissioners can be convinced to keep the moratorium on development in place until proper planning can be performed.
Lori
Posted by Steve Hamley on August 16, 2007 at 12:30 PM
I certainly hope efforts are successful. I'll help as much as I can, but given that I haven't taken a photo since April, that probably won't be much other than e-mailing.
As folks interested in conservation, there are a few things we should come to grips with. One, as population pressures existing resources and loss of jobs in the region, it will be impossible to save everything we'd like to save. Two, by the time some developer buys the land and goes to the county government, it's a steep uphill battle and possibly too late in many cases.
So in addition to fighting these battles as best we can, we (meaning the conservation community) should also target significant areas which are not immediately threatened and would in the long run perhaps make a bigger difference.
Another thing might be to emphasize responsible development where development cannot be avoided. Hugh Morton sort of did this on Grandfather Mountain, given the times he lived in.
Also join the Nature Conservancy, Sierra Club, the Southern Appalachian Highlands Conservancy or similar organizations and donate to them as best you can. NPNers won't have as much clout as larger conservancy organizations will, and they generally watch what's going on and are often aware of threatened areas before the sale takes place.
Steve
Posted by Lori Kincaid on August 16, 2007 at 1:38 PM
Dang, Steve, I thought NPN ruled!
Good points. I agree the best conservation is done proactively instead of reactively and the big conservation groups are doing a good job of targeting significant areas. Still, every now and then something comes along that's worth the effort of a reactive response. It'll take the big groups to really make the ball roll, but big groups are composed of individuals and collectively we can make a difference.
One point of clarification: the Archer Group has an option to buy the Wilson Creek property, but they haven't put any money down yet. They want approval from the county commission first.
Lori
Posted by Leann Greene on August 16, 2007 at 10:01 PM
I am requesting the time from work that day to be there in person.
Posted by Jerry Greer on August 17, 2007 at 11:27 AM
Lori wrote: "What did y'all do wih Rocky Fork? I'm guessing you raised awareness, you evaluated the plans on the merits, and you made reasoned and impassioned arguments about why it should be protected as much as why it shouldn't be developed, while also trying to raise funds. And my hat is off. I do believe there's hope now for Rocky Fork which to me is community action at its finest. "
Lori,
We got the most hard-driving conservation groups involved! The Southern Appalachian Highlands Conservancy and the Conservation Fund. The problem for Wilson Creek is that the major Conservation groups are now over worked and under funded due to some BIG purchases such as Rocky Fork, the Conservation Fund has signed a contract for the purchase of Rocky Fork! The first thing that I would do is contact the NC Nature Conservancy. The are the most proactive group for NC. The TN Nature Conservency sucks!
Discussion
23 replieshttp://www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/story/233150.html
Of course being lower middle class I resent the affluent being more entitled to the good locations but what is the county thinking? There are NO jobs in this area= no money and I believe these developments put more demand for fire depts and such that these communities just cannot support.The thought comes up that hmmm maybe some comissioners are getting a new homesite in a prime new development
Lori
I'm in.
The only way to stop it is to buy the land. As we've found out with Rocky Fork, money talks! The great thing is that we have a big enough group/groups to go after the funding and the Conservation Fund had the balls to sign the contract of the 10,000 acres (about 40 million dollars). Now we just have to finalize everything. At the moment we have a glitch in our proposal due to politics and the Republican base of East Tennessee. David Davis is our big problem, he’s up for re-election! It's all about the votes and nothing else! I'm sick of these bastard politicians and their flip-flopping when the rich and mighty twists their panties! At some point we’ve got to take back our government!
I know nothing about the proposed Wilson Creek development except what I read in the Charlotte Observer article. But it sounds to me like it's on the way to happening right away, right now, unless somebody can go to the next meeting of the county commissioners and convince them to postpone judgement. Here's are some of the first things we need to do:
-- Obtain a plat of the proposed subdivision and then document the land for its inherent aesthetic value as well as its ability to handle increased sediment loads, storm water runoff, and (potentially) steep slope development, among other considerations.
--Compare the proposed development to existing zoning requirements and ordnances. Are there any violations? From the C_O article it appears there are.
--Research local decisions regarding development, including the county history and rationale for overturnng existing ordnances
--Research the letter of the law and Congress' intent with the Wild and Scenic River designation. For example, are there precedents for requiring, or at least encouraging development of an Environmental Impact Statement in this situation?
--Contact conservancy groups to see if they have any interest in preserving these lands ( which may include conducting a biological survey to identify any rare or endangered species).
-Go to the county comissioners meeting and tell them what we've found.
It's never easy when local citizens take on developers, because often they're *starting* from an extreme disadvantage: They love the land, but have no money and know nothing about the law, while the developers know the law, have a lot of money, and care nothing about the land. This we can overcome!
Leann, I knew I could count on you to be in. If you can get a plat from your local county comissioners office or registrar of deeds or wherever that information resides in your county, I can come and walk over the land with you. I'll email you to discuss what we need to do next.
We also need pictures, pictures, pictures, of one of the prettiest places in the southeast.
Come on, SENP, who else is in?
Lori
http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/fayehiggins/
Learn more about the Commissioners at:
http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/comm/comm.html
Lori I see they are already up your way
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Article_view_articleid_29784_display_full_
Another article and this explains how the fire dept would be funded-a "donation"
http://newstopic.net/articles/2007/08/12/news/75wilsonpud.txt
Lori
P.S. High profile golfers like Tiger Woods moving into the area should give us all a pretty good idea of what the future holds. It almost feels like we're slipping back into the days of the "robber barons".
But lets not lose sight of the fact that this is a two-way street. Make this point in your letters. I am not from the area, but the only reason I DO visit is to enjoy places like Wilson Creek. When I am there, I spend money on hotels, restaurants, etc. Good economics and preservation of wild places are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts. This ain't politics of the 1970s.
Also, be sure emphasize the gravity of their decision. Go ahead with the development and the decision is irreversible. It cannot be undone. Most politicians are cowards and are much more motivated by avoiding mistakes than taking chances.
Alice, You bring up great points-the local economy is fumbling and that shouldn't make for a better target for this. Remember just 2 months ago there was a moratorium put in place to put off development considerations for a year-what changed??
Wade
Richard makes great points. The economic value to the county of recreational users who are there throughout the year in great numbers would probably exceed property tax dollars and other revenue from second home owners who visit sparingly, are fewer in number, and don't spend as much money over the long-term.
Leann, the moratorium on development was unanimously approved by the commissioners on June 4. Here's what an article in the local paper said:
"The sole purpose of this is to allow time for a plan to be developed by the Planning Department and the commissioners,” Commissioner Dr. John Thuss said. “That river is everyone's river. It's not owned by anyone.
“We are not opposed to development, but if we don't do something now, the opportunity will be lost.”
The Charlotte Oberver article implies the plan has been developed, but that would be very quick. I plan to search the Caldwell County public records to see if any plan has been made available to the public. Either way, this is certainly an issue to be raised in our letters.
Wade, thanks for the offer to help! I think the main thing right now is to write that letter. Leann and I are going to try to walk over the area this weekend. We'll let everyone know what we find.
Lori
North Carolina
Wildlife
Federation
Affiliated with the
National Wildlife Federation
www.ncwf.org
HELP PROTECT WILSON CREEK - A FEDERALLY DESIGNATED WILD AND SCENIC RIVER!
Wilson Creek, which flows 23 miles from Grandfather Mountain to the Johns River in Caldwell County, is one of only 4 rivers in NC designated as National 'Wild and Scenic'. Wilson Creek is also designated as an “Outstanding Resource Water” by the NC Department of Environment & Natural Resources, the state’s highest water quality classification. It is one of the most pristine bodies of waters in NC and is a popular destination for anglers and paddlers.
However:
On Monday August 6 the Caldwell County Planning Board passed a zoning request by a Florida developer – The Archer Group - which would allow the development of nearly 650 acres along Wilson Creek. This tract includes both sides of the creek and roughly lies between the confluence of Lost Cove Creek to the north downstream to the confluence of Harpers Creek to the south. The Brown Mountain Beach Rd, and the Edgemont Rd., both state maintained roads, follow the creek through this property for approximately 4.5 road miles as they parallel Wilson Creek.
The developer has requested to build two bridges spanning the creek (note: no development has occurred along Wilson Creek since the 1900's mainly due to frequent severe flooding and washing out of bridges) and multiple road accesses to the development.
Even though a 1-year development moratorium put in place by the Caldwell County Commissioners, the Planning Board, by a 5-4 vote approved this request.
Wildlife Impacts
This development could have disastrous effects upon the Wilson Creek watershed with regard to cold water fisheries, wildlife habitat, and overall water quality. There will be a huge increase of sediment loading of the water due to road and lot clearing. Loss of vegetative cover will inevitably cause more run-off into the aquatic resource! In addition, implications of the proposed development, including septic tanks, public access, and having a homeowners association “managing” more than 4 miles of a Wild and Scenic river presents serious ecological concerns. This news is terrible for the downstream fishery as well as the beauty of a normally crystal clear body of water.
Wilson Creek was designated a National Wild and Scenic River seven years ago. In the history of Wild and Scenic Rivers there has never been development of this magnitude allowed after being so designated.
What can be done:
The good news is that the developer must take this request before an open public hearing on Monday August 27 at 6pm. At this hearing the county commissioners will decide the fate of this ill-conceived development.
If you have ever fished, paddled, hiked or birded in this area, and you care anything about the future of Wilson Creek, please attend the meeting and voice your opposition to the proposal.
Ask the County Commissioners to:
· Slow the planning process and take the appropriate time to plan for the adequate protection of Wilson Creek
· Reject the development proposal and allow adequate planning
Tell them:
· A lot of hard work went into getting Wilson Creek, a national treasure, designated as a Wild and Scenic River, and;
· You value and travel to their county to enjoy the eco-tourism that Wilson Creek offers.
Public Hearing: August 27 at 6pm – 905 West Avenue NW, Lenoir, NC - in the basement level of the Caldwell County offices.
If you cannot attend the meeting, please email and call the Commissioners:
Contact Info:
Caldwell County Commissioners: Contact phone number (828) 757-1300
Chairman – Faye Higgins http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/fayehiggins/
Vice-Chairman – Ron Beane http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/ronbeane/
Vice-Chairman – Don Barrier http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/donbarrier/
Vice-Chairman – Herb Greene http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/herbgreene/
Vice-Chairman – Dr. John Thuss http://www.co.caldwell.nc.us/emailcontact/johnthuss/
Your calls, emails and comments can make a difference for fish and wildlife now and for generations to come!
Lori
As folks interested in conservation, there are a few things we should come to grips with. One, as population pressures existing resources and loss of jobs in the region, it will be impossible to save everything we'd like to save. Two, by the time some developer buys the land and goes to the county government, it's a steep uphill battle and possibly too late in many cases.
So in addition to fighting these battles as best we can, we (meaning the conservation community) should also target significant areas which are not immediately threatened and would in the long run perhaps make a bigger difference.
Another thing might be to emphasize responsible development where development cannot be avoided. Hugh Morton sort of did this on Grandfather Mountain, given the times he lived in.
Also join the Nature Conservancy, Sierra Club, the Southern Appalachian Highlands Conservancy or similar organizations and donate to them as best you can. NPNers won't have as much clout as larger conservancy organizations will, and they generally watch what's going on and are often aware of threatened areas before the sale takes place.
Steve
Good points. I agree the best conservation is done proactively instead of reactively and the big conservation groups are doing a good job of targeting significant areas. Still, every now and then something comes along that's worth the effort of a reactive response. It'll take the big groups to really make the ball roll, but big groups are composed of individuals and collectively we can make a difference.
One point of clarification: the Archer Group has an option to buy the Wilson Creek property, but they haven't put any money down yet. They want approval from the county commission first.
Lori
Lori,
We got the most hard-driving conservation groups involved! The Southern Appalachian Highlands Conservancy and the Conservation Fund. The problem for Wilson Creek is that the major Conservation groups are now over worked and under funded due to some BIG purchases such as Rocky Fork, the Conservation Fund has signed a contract for the purchase of Rocky Fork! The first thing that I would do is contact the NC Nature Conservancy. The are the most proactive group for NC. The TN Nature Conservency sucks!