Posted by Darren White on August 21, 2007 at 6:46 PM
....Because I wanted to do side by side comparisons of the D200 and 5D as far as feel, grip, weight, and menu options and how user friendly each was....
being a Nikon user I had no problem whipping through the menu and settings on the D200.
I got to the 5D, turned it on and was able to figure it out really easy....I have heard mixed review about the buttons and dials and so forth but it all seemed pretty straight forward.....
after I finished looking at them and the lenses to go with each, I was handing them over to the salesgirl and I said, "don't drop em", and the other sales guy looks over and says, "oh, you can drop that one", and I asked, "which one?" and he said, "the D200" I said, "what about the 5D" and he shook his head no and I asked if there really was a big difference like that and he said, "yes, the D200 is much tougher and the 5D is not built like that".
so we talked about what Nikon is supposed to announce on Thursday and what the price will be and so forth....
it really saddens me to know that as great of a camera Canon is with their high quality lenses and high MP count that they don't build their cameras as tough as Nikon.....
Those of you who have shot with me know that I just put it on the tripod and go.....I am not that careful with my stuff....I know I should be and I am sure after my next purchase I will be more mindful of what I am doing......
Well, I wouldn't want to drop either one and I certainly wouldn't base my decision on dropability, LOL. That said, my 5D has a pretty darn sturdy magnesium body.
Posted by Darren White on August 21, 2007 at 7:02 PM
Eric, I would never base my decision on that alone either, and both cameras felt very solid to me....
Realistically, I am waiting until Thursday to see what Nikon has to say, and then I will wait till the replacement for the 5D is announced and make my final decision around the 1st of April!
As a climber, I learned to hold onto my gear. Dropping a set of nuts, for instance, could be very compromising (not to mention, dangerous). This must have carried over to photography for me. I don't have camera straps on my cameras, preferring to carry gear in hand or in a bag. I've never dropped anything, not even a filter (knock on rock). So...I'd just buy the camera that produces the best images.
Darren...I'm with you on the DSLR wait-and-see approach. I'm getting the itch for a DSLR. It will either be one of the new offerings from Nikon or Canon...or perhaps the oft-scoffed-at Fuji S5.
Posted by Tom Kloster on August 21, 2007 at 8:50 PM
...and speaking of scoffed-at, there's also the successor to the Olympus E-1, apparently coming out in about six weeks. The internet buzz is that the new version is so long overdue, that Olympus has missed it's chance to be a serious competitor with other "pro" camera manufactures -- and that the new E-1 will be more like a high end prosumer camera. Hard to know what's behind the discussion comments (or which corporate interests), but it will be interesting to see what comes of this new edition.
Fortunately, I'm not a pro, and I'll welcome a less expensive camera that has more function and durability than my current Olympus DSLR. I'm also somewhat committed, since I've bought several lenses in the Zuiko digital series -- that's what drew me to the Olympus DSLRs in the first place. In the end, I think what will define "pro" and "prosumer" is printing -- pros seem to be focused on megapixel count and standard print dimensions for the obvious purpose of making large prints, while "prosumers" (like yours truly) are drawn to the four-thirds aspect for it's various advantages in web and small print use. Even with an 8 megapixel camera, I find myself cursing the storage requirements for my photo archive, so I'm definitely not ready to juggle images three times that size!
As for camera store salesman, well, I used to be one. I sold hundreds of SLRs during college and graduate schools in the early/mid 80s to people who thought I knew what the hell I was talking about! Well, I did know more than most customers, but that's about where it ended! Another question to ask your friendly camera store salesman is whether he/she is getting a per unit bonus (called "spiffs" in my day) for selling a particular make or model. I was paid an extra $20 for every crappy, plastic Pentax I sold (their post K1000 period), and a lot of the sales force ONLY sold cameras with spiffs attached. Not sure if that's an accepted practice these days, but I do notice that some of the camera stores don't carry Olympus at all - I find that odd. When I was selling cameras, Olympus and Nikon were the two makes that didn't provide sales incentives of some sort, while Minolta, Pentax, Konica and Canon did.
BTW, here's another cruel fact behind camera sales: sales people can be mean. One of the favorite tricks was to sell "know-it-all" blowhard types the most expensive kid conceivable - with the pitch that "of course, you'd want the professional setup, right?" They had no idea what they were buying, but would pretty much buy whatever you stacked in front of them, just to prove they were "pros". A corollary trick was to sell the crappiest cameras to this type of customer, in the guise of "being the favorite of the pros", usually one of the plastic Pentax models. I won't admit to doing this (well... maybe once or twice), but I can ASSURE you that it's in the back of my mind whenever I buy something in a retail setting. The retail world is not for sissies...
My 20D has taken a nose dive off my tripod twice, and didn't need nary a repair (I had it checked out both times), and I believe the 5D is built tougher that the 20D. Anyway, you should have asked him to drop both their cameras onto the floor to prove his point.
Posted by Zack Schnepf on August 21, 2007 at 10:26 PM
Just FYI, my 5D has taken 2 hard knocks. One in the wave, when it took a dive off the tripod onto ROCK!!!! The 17-40L sheered right in in half, but the camera just had some scuffs on it, didn't even miss a beat. It also took a dive on the floor in my house when my wife knocked it off a table, again didn't even miss a beat. I can't say enough good things about the 5D, and it turned out to be quite tough.
Posted by Darien Chin on August 21, 2007 at 10:35 PM
I agree with you that I'd like to see the 5D a bit tougher...but here is something to consider. If your D70 is still alive after taking the abuse it gets...why wouldn't a 5D hold up. I would think the 5D with the magnesium-alloy body would be better than the plastic D70 body.
If all else fails, there's always camera insurance. I have a friend that works for State Farm, and I can help you get a policy going if you need one.
Some of the things that I found a bit weird when moving to the 5D last week:
-Everything was backwards from Nikon.
-I miss the dual wheels.
-I REALLY miss the WB quick adjust that is Nikon's have, while with the Canon you have to dig in a menu for it.
-The mirror lock up is also buried deep in the menu, but yet they have a worthless direct print button.
-You can use the set button as a custom button....but for what....most of the options they give you already have a button assigned for that...all except for picture style, which I set it at.
-I wish the sync speed was higher than 1/200th (1/180 if shooting if 1/2 stops like I like to do).
-Focus points are not as easy to work with, and don't have a good spread. They aren't even NEAR the left and right edges of the viewfinder, which means that if you have your vert compo, and want to focus on something in the very bottom or top of your screen, you either have to focus lock the readjust, or manual focus.
-With Nikon's you can add lines in the viewfinder without having to buy a whole other screen thingy.
-The overall menu layout of the 5D isn't great, and it's ugly imo.
-LCD doesn't seem to produce as nice of colors
Now I know it probably sounds like I'm complaining a lot, and I'm not meaning to sound like that. These are just some of the things that are going to take some getting used to for me. All in all, I love my new 5D and I'm sure the positives will definitely outweigh the negatives once I get used to it.
Like we've talked about already on the trail, I would look at your picture use and printing requirements and figure out what you can realistically afford from there, including all the other stuff you'd need for it: lenses, filters, etc. Of course you want a camera built like a tank, but your customer wants nice pictures. Does it matter that the D200 can supposedly take a drop and the 5D can't? Your customer just wants the nicest picture you can get.
Realistically, my Digital Rebel has taken one major drop and it was fine (not my watch, though, and it's a Timex). That thingy is plastic, plastic, and more plastic. The 5D is supposedly built stronger than that, but I don't ever plan to test that. Even if a camera can survive a drop on the outside, who's to say it won't hemorrage internally, or at least knock something out of alignment?
I think this "Nikon is stronger than nails" thing that I've heard about and told you about is more marketing hype than useful. Unless you're in a war zone, if you're nice to your stuff it will last (and be worth something to sell when you ultimately upgrade). Accidental dropsies excepted, but I think most cam-cams today can at least take one or two oopses. Your lenses, though...
Your best bet is to get a small padded b/p or bag that will give you a better cushion than your tripod. And I'm just talkin' something cheap. I'm thinking about one for me, too.
Discussion
8 repliesbeing a Nikon user I had no problem whipping through the menu and settings on the D200.
I got to the 5D, turned it on and was able to figure it out really easy....I have heard mixed review about the buttons and dials and so forth but it all seemed pretty straight forward.....
after I finished looking at them and the lenses to go with each, I was handing them over to the salesgirl and I said, "don't drop em", and the other sales guy looks over and says, "oh, you can drop that one", and I asked, "which one?" and he said, "the D200" I said, "what about the 5D" and he shook his head no and I asked if there really was a big difference like that and he said, "yes, the D200 is much tougher and the 5D is not built like that".
so we talked about what Nikon is supposed to announce on Thursday and what the price will be and so forth....
it really saddens me to know that as great of a camera Canon is with their high quality lenses and high MP count that they don't build their cameras as tough as Nikon.....
Those of you who have shot with me know that I just put it on the tripod and go.....I am not that careful with my stuff....I know I should be and I am sure after my next purchase I will be more mindful of what I am doing......
Realistically, I am waiting until Thursday to see what Nikon has to say, and then I will wait till the replacement for the 5D is announced and make my final decision around the 1st of April!
Darren...I'm with you on the DSLR wait-and-see approach. I'm getting the itch for a DSLR. It will either be one of the new offerings from Nikon or Canon...or perhaps the oft-scoffed-at Fuji S5.
Fortunately, I'm not a pro, and I'll welcome a less expensive camera that has more function and durability than my current Olympus DSLR. I'm also somewhat committed, since I've bought several lenses in the Zuiko digital series -- that's what drew me to the Olympus DSLRs in the first place. In the end, I think what will define "pro" and "prosumer" is printing -- pros seem to be focused on megapixel count and standard print dimensions for the obvious purpose of making large prints, while "prosumers" (like yours truly) are drawn to the four-thirds aspect for it's various advantages in web and small print use. Even with an 8 megapixel camera, I find myself cursing the storage requirements for my photo archive, so I'm definitely not ready to juggle images three times that size!
As for camera store salesman, well, I used to be one. I sold hundreds of SLRs during college and graduate schools in the early/mid 80s to people who thought I knew what the hell I was talking about! Well, I did know more than most customers, but that's about where it ended! Another question to ask your friendly camera store salesman is whether he/she is getting a per unit bonus (called "spiffs" in my day) for selling a particular make or model. I was paid an extra $20 for every crappy, plastic Pentax I sold (their post K1000 period), and a lot of the sales force ONLY sold cameras with spiffs attached. Not sure if that's an accepted practice these days, but I do notice that some of the camera stores don't carry Olympus at all - I find that odd. When I was selling cameras, Olympus and Nikon were the two makes that didn't provide sales incentives of some sort, while Minolta, Pentax, Konica and Canon did.
BTW, here's another cruel fact behind camera sales: sales people can be mean. One of the favorite tricks was to sell "know-it-all" blowhard types the most expensive kid conceivable - with the pitch that "of course, you'd want the professional setup, right?" They had no idea what they were buying, but would pretty much buy whatever you stacked in front of them, just to prove they were "pros". A corollary trick was to sell the crappiest cameras to this type of customer, in the guise of "being the favorite of the pros", usually one of the plastic Pentax models. I won't admit to doing this (well... maybe once or twice), but I can ASSURE you that it's in the back of my mind whenever I buy something in a retail setting. The retail world is not for sissies...
-Tom
If all else fails, there's always camera insurance. I have a friend that works for State Farm, and I can help you get a policy going if you need one.
Some of the things that I found a bit weird when moving to the 5D last week:
-Everything was backwards from Nikon.
-I miss the dual wheels.
-I REALLY miss the WB quick adjust that is Nikon's have, while with the Canon you have to dig in a menu for it.
-The mirror lock up is also buried deep in the menu, but yet they have a worthless direct print button.
-You can use the set button as a custom button....but for what....most of the options they give you already have a button assigned for that...all except for picture style, which I set it at.
-I wish the sync speed was higher than 1/200th (1/180 if shooting if 1/2 stops like I like to do).
-Focus points are not as easy to work with, and don't have a good spread. They aren't even NEAR the left and right edges of the viewfinder, which means that if you have your vert compo, and want to focus on something in the very bottom or top of your screen, you either have to focus lock the readjust, or manual focus.
-With Nikon's you can add lines in the viewfinder without having to buy a whole other screen thingy.
-The overall menu layout of the 5D isn't great, and it's ugly imo.
-LCD doesn't seem to produce as nice of colors
Now I know it probably sounds like I'm complaining a lot, and I'm not meaning to sound like that. These are just some of the things that are going to take some getting used to for me. All in all, I love my new 5D and I'm sure the positives will definitely outweigh the negatives once I get used to it.
Like we've talked about already on the trail, I would look at your picture use and printing requirements and figure out what you can realistically afford from there, including all the other stuff you'd need for it: lenses, filters, etc. Of course you want a camera built like a tank, but your customer wants nice pictures. Does it matter that the D200 can supposedly take a drop and the 5D can't? Your customer just wants the nicest picture you can get.
Realistically, my Digital Rebel has taken one major drop and it was fine (not my watch, though, and it's a Timex). That thingy is plastic, plastic, and more plastic. The 5D is supposedly built stronger than that, but I don't ever plan to test that. Even if a camera can survive a drop on the outside, who's to say it won't hemorrage internally, or at least knock something out of alignment?
I think this "Nikon is stronger than nails" thing that I've heard about and told you about is more marketing hype than useful. Unless you're in a war zone, if you're nice to your stuff it will last (and be worth something to sell when you ultimately upgrade). Accidental dropsies excepted, but I think most cam-cams today can at least take one or two oopses. Your lenses, though...
Your best bet is to get a small padded b/p or bag that will give you a better cushion than your tripod. And I'm just talkin' something cheap. I'm thinking about one for me, too.
Kevin