When I stopped by our local camera dealer this morning, I asked the owner's son what he thought about the new Canon 21 mp body. He knows we shoot the black stuff and replied that Nikon would make an announcement tomorrow, August 23.
Now, we can all speculate. There is nothing like starting a rumor, but I believe this may have some truth. Time will tell.
Posted by Drew Fulton on August 23, 2007 at 12:47 AM
No need to speculate... Here's the announcement.
Looks like a Full Frame D3 w/ 12 megapixels, a great looking D300, and finally VR in the 400, 500, and 600mm lenses. All the info is on Rob Gailbraith's site.
Posted by Basil Greber on August 23, 2007 at 2:34 AM
Hi David
Haven't been on dpreview.com lately, huh? The rumors have been flying for more than two months now. Today's (well, yesterday's... whatever) press conference was eagerly anticipated. Great to see they smacked both the "full-frame" and "supertele with VR" complaints in a single announcement.
About those 12 MP, Hank - yes, that's it. This camera seems to replace the D2Hs and compete with the 10 MP 1D Mk III. A higher pixel count D3-something (to compete against the 1Ds Mk III) is expected next year, as far as I know.
It's a great day for me - maybe, maybe, I'll be able to afford a second hand D200 some day.
Tom, I hope so. But marketing departments are big and people are always complaining about not enough pixels.
Prashant, as for 5D and D3 comparison, I don't think you are completely fare. 1Ds MkII was even more than 2x the price and only had few pixels bonus over D3. And on the other hand was inferior in other departments.
So, in a couple of years maybe there will be a full-frame Nikon dSLR that I can afford....meanwhile, the D200 is more than enough camera for me. I just wish my wide end was wider.
Pete D.
Posted by Curtis Knight on August 23, 2007 at 10:11 AM
CMOS sensor... is this new? I thought Nikon used CCDs... "Nikon isn't revealing their manufacturing partner. " heh heh heh... It's probably Canon
The CMOS part is good news. I'm really surpised its only 12mp though. The D2X is 12.4mp, so it's simply going to spread about the same # of pixels over a bigger area. As convenient as FF might be, it's not enough to make me replace a bunch of D2X's.
Now the new lenses are another matter altogether! The two f/2.8 G models are really, really welcome in my piddlin little world. They are probably enough to keep me from switching to Canon.
Posted by Basil Greber on August 23, 2007 at 10:47 AM
Hank - again: They don't want you to replace your D2X with a D3. They want you to replace your 4 MP D2Hs with a D3. Or your 10 MP 1D Mk III, for that matter.
Camera dealer was correct. However, I have a "technical" issue with a full frame digital sensor.
The problem with a full frame sensor is that the intensity of light falls off with the cosine of the angle of the light versus the perpendicular. For one and a half centuries, we were lucky with film which has a finite thickness which increased the path of a photon through the emulsion by the inverse of the cosine. Thus, the vignetting was canceled out when using film. But, in general photo sensors are surface devices and there is no compensation by the physics.
We will have to wait to see if Nikon has built in some type of correction for their sensor. I know that the D2 series has corrections, but the problem is more difficult here because the incidence of light varies from lens to lens. Still, an approximate correction would be better than none. In this case, though, I suspect the marketing department won.
Posted by Mark Windom on August 23, 2007 at 11:38 AM
Curtis, the D2X also has a CMOS sensor so it's not new to Nikon.
Even though I don't think Nikon intended the D3 to replace the D2X I may replace mine with it. The larger pixel size in the D3 should translate to better dynamic range and if that holds true it would be worth the switch.
I can see that Basil, but since I never saw a use for the D2H, they misfired. I take heart that in the tradition of the D1 and D2, the "H" version preceded a more useful (to me) "X" version. Gotta say however, that a D3X is going to be a tough sale, simply because the D2X already suits our needs so well. On top of that, we find ourselves downsizing files from the D2X more often than not, simply because the largest files size is already bigger than our clients need, and certainly too big for convenient online transfer.
The really tough choice for us will be between picking up the two new f/2.8 G lenses (with two shooters that means a minimum of two of each model), or simply picking up the eventual D3X for it's full-frame capabilities and return to using our many and beloved f/2.8D lenses. It would be a hard go for the new G's to be better, much less as good as those.
One other spec that is really impressive is 11 frames per second.. Even a 9fps in the fine print, that is a significant improvement. We really miss the old days with the F5 at 8 fps.
Posted by David Bostedo on August 23, 2007 at 1:49 PM
To me, the most amazing thing is the high ISO capability of the D3. 6400 native and boosted up to 25600?? That's crazy. This is probably (I would guess) the reason for going full frame with "only" 12 MP - bigger pixels make it easier to design in better sensitivity and S/N ratio.
Posted by Richard Wong on August 23, 2007 at 3:07 PM
Wow that sounds impressive. The first manufacturer that can make a noiseless ISO 6500 or 25600 will get my money. I'd be using it all the time!
The noiseless thing sounds great. I won't replace my D200 anytime soon, but my biggest complaint with it is the noise with any ISO over 200. Even ISO 200 is a bit noisy. I'm looking forward to hearing what the users have to say as these get bought up.
Posted by Gautham G on August 24, 2007 at 11:11 AM
On the noise front, I've compared 5D and D200 at ISO 1600. I couldn't have loved 5D any more. It's absolutely marvelous with respect to noise characteristics. I'll upload the photos for comparison.
It's an extra step, but a noise reducer plug in to CS3 has done an admirable job for me in processing low light event shots. The D200's automatic ISO setting has allowed me to concentrate on the event despite changing light levels while the D200 gives me the lowest ISO that will meet my needs. If there is too much noise in the image, all that is needed is an action that runs the noise reduction plug in. This has worked for me and will do untill Nikon comes out with a full size sensor in a $2 Thousand camera. $4 to $5 Thousand for a camera that will be obsolete in 12 to 18 months seems tough to justify. I can still use the Nikon F I bought in 1970, but the digital camera I bought 4 years ago is a paper weight.
Posted by Bill Stice on August 24, 2007 at 1:18 PM
There is an interesting post on Photo.net by Ellis Vener regarding the new Nikon news. He and Bjorn Rorslett both attended the announcement at the Nikon headquarters in Japan. He discusses the noise reduction in the new products. They actually got to handle the D3 and take some shots with it.
Posted by Jerry Greer on August 24, 2007 at 3:15 PM
Again, Nikon is bringing up the rear! This is what happens when you rely on someone else to manufacture your sensors! So, I wonder when Sony's coming out with their full frame camera. I'll bet it's soon! Nikon is just where Canon was when film was in. My how that tables have turned.
It's sooooo funny how things change within in a very short amount of time. For years all my friends that are in bed with Corporate Nikon kept saying that full-frame was stupid and that Nikon doesn't need and will never go full-frame.
BTW, I'm just razzing you Nikon folks! I hope for Nikon's sake this camera is a knockout! But, I'll be putting my $$$$$ on a full-frame 21mp monster. But then again, I may hold out for the 17+mp 5D replacement that soon to follow! I love the weight of my 5D!
Even though I shoot with the "dark" side, I have a problem with the full sized sensor. It is a problem of physics that is the only drawback to the D3 for me. My suspicion is that Nikon has built in the correction for the vignetting with the ExSpeed digital image processing firmware.
It the sensor wasn't a full frame, the D3 would become my wife's Christmas present as soon as it was available. Since Nikon and the users have made such a big deal over the problem, I suspect vignetting will be one of the items really tested and reported.in the reviews. Time will tell, but for now it seems like the marketing department may have trumped the engineers unless the ExSpeed firmware makes the appropriate compensation. If the reviews are positive, then there may be plenty of time to get a D3 for my wife's Christmas present.
Posted by Kent Staubus on August 26, 2007 at 1:26 AM
Posted by Bill Chambers on September 10, 2007 at 4:46 PM
As someone mentioned earlier, the D3 is being produced for sports shooters (read Olympics), but I suspect they will have a D3X version with more MP at some point as well.
Razz away Greer, but read what this Canon shooter has to say about the D3 HERE and HERE. Oh yea of little faith!
I think I smell a landscape variant of the D3 in my future somewhere down the line!
Discussion
25 repliesNow, we can all speculate. There is nothing like starting a rumor, but I believe this may have some truth. Time will tell.
Looks like a Full Frame D3 w/ 12 megapixels, a great looking D300, and finally VR in the 400, 500, and 600mm lenses. All the info is on Rob Gailbraith's site.
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/index.asp
Drew
Haven't been on dpreview.com lately, huh?
About those 12 MP, Hank - yes, that's it. This camera seems to replace the D2Hs and compete with the 10 MP 1D Mk III. A higher pixel count D3-something (to compete against the 1Ds Mk III) is expected next year, as far as I know.
It's a great day for me - maybe, maybe, I'll be able to afford a second hand D200 some day.
Basil
Is this the end of the Pixel race?
T
Prashant, as for 5D and D3 comparison, I don't think you are completely fare. 1Ds MkII was even more than 2x the price and only had few pixels bonus over D3. And on the other hand was inferior in other departments.
Cheers,
Marko
Pete D.
Now the new lenses are another matter altogether! The two f/2.8 G models are really, really welcome in my piddlin little world. They are probably enough to keep me from switching to Canon.
Basil
The problem with a full frame sensor is that the intensity of light falls off with the cosine of the angle of the light versus the perpendicular. For one and a half centuries, we were lucky with film which has a finite thickness which increased the path of a photon through the emulsion by the inverse of the cosine. Thus, the vignetting was canceled out when using film. But, in general photo sensors are surface devices and there is no compensation by the physics.
We will have to wait to see if Nikon has built in some type of correction for their sensor. I know that the D2 series has corrections, but the problem is more difficult here because the incidence of light varies from lens to lens. Still, an approximate correction would be better than none. In this case, though, I suspect the marketing department won.
Even though I don't think Nikon intended the D3 to replace the D2X I may replace mine with it. The larger pixel size in the D3 should translate to better dynamic range and if that holds true it would be worth the switch.
The really tough choice for us will be between picking up the two new f/2.8 G lenses (with two shooters that means a minimum of two of each model), or simply picking up the eventual D3X for it's full-frame capabilities and return to using our many and beloved f/2.8D lenses. It would be a hard go for the new G's to be better, much less as good as those.
It's sooooo funny how things change within in a very short amount of time. For years all my friends that are in bed with Corporate Nikon kept saying that full-frame was stupid and that Nikon doesn't need and will never go full-frame.
BTW, I'm just razzing you Nikon folks! I hope for Nikon's sake this camera is a knockout! But, I'll be putting my $$$$$ on a full-frame 21mp monster. But then again, I may hold out for the 17+mp 5D replacement that soon to follow! I love the weight of my 5D!
Thanks Canon!
Even though I shoot with the "dark" side, I have a problem with the full sized sensor. It is a problem of physics that is the only drawback to the D3 for me. My suspicion is that Nikon has built in the correction for the vignetting with the ExSpeed digital image processing firmware.
It the sensor wasn't a full frame, the D3 would become my wife's Christmas present as soon as it was available. Since Nikon and the users have made such a big deal over the problem, I suspect vignetting will be one of the items really tested and reported.in the reviews. Time will tell, but for now it seems like the marketing department may have trumped the engineers unless the ExSpeed firmware makes the appropriate compensation. If the reviews are positive, then there may be plenty of time to get a D3 for my wife's Christmas present.
http://www.naturephotographers.net/imagecritique/bbs.cgi?a=vm&mr=21220&b=vf3&st=0&la=742&ph=0&sid=24286&u=24286
Kent in SD
Razz away Greer, but read what this Canon shooter has to say about the D3 HERE and HERE.
I think I smell a landscape variant of the D3 in my future somewhere down the line!