Posted by Jesse Speer on August 30, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Some of you may already know about this tent, but I thought I'd share my discovery anyway. I think it may be the perfect 3-season shelter (at least for my needs) - for those who like a little more than a fly/ground cloth. I know a lot of you care about shaving pack weight.
I just ordered the Contrail model (under 2 pounds!). I can't wait to carry this thing.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on August 30, 2007 at 1:16 PM
Those are some light tents. I'd be interested to hear your experience.
I've been content to use a North Face tadpole NHP when I need light, but its still over 3 lbs with all of its parts. I've always liked having a separate rain fly in Colorado though. I think it helps manage condensation and overnight temperatures better.
Despite the slope of the interior which should aid in air movement, I have to believe you will be experiencing some condensation on the underside. Especially on rainy nights with little or no breeze, but even on dry nights with low breeze as well. I once had a single wall tent with good amounts of mesh windows, but condensation was always present in the morning, sometimes wetting my down bag a bit. Keep a backpackers towel with you for occasional wipe downs during the night. I've also used a 1-man Goretex bivvy sack (1.5lbs)(homemade) that resulted in a lesser but still noticeable condensation effect. Good luck and I would be interested to hear of your experiences with it.
Thank you for the tip, Jesse! I am actually shopping for a new tent too. Those look pretty neat and light, but I need one for 4 season that I can also use for snow camping. Those are all 3 season tents, correct? Let us know how it works.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on August 30, 2007 at 2:34 PM
Gabi,
If you can afford it, you're better off with 2 tents. 4 season tents are pretty heavy for a variety of reasons. I wish The North Face still made my 3/4 season tent (polaris), but they don't. Its similar to the moraine, but the screen panels can all be zipped closed. And it is much lighter than a VE25.
In my mind, the distinction between a 3 and four season tent is that a 4 season tent has screens limited to the doors and those can be covered, and is fully double walled when the fly is used. A 3 season tent usually has screen panels in the tent walls that cannot be covered with solid fabric. 4 Season tents are typically also of a more substantial construction to resist wind and sustain the weight of snow.
In practical use, 4 season tents are typically warmer than 3 season tents due to the solid walls. This causes a mixed result because they may be uncomfortably warm in the summer. Likewise a 3 season tent with its mesh side panels leaves will be useless in winter camping.
Bibler Tents are single wall 4 season tents, but I've always thought there was a significant insulation advantage to a double walled tent over a single walled tent. In addition, I think condensation management is much better in a double walled tent. With single wall tents, you gain the advantage of not carrying a fly, but the fabric is much heavier resulting in a tent that weighs about the same.
Thank you for your response. You are absolutely right about the difference between 3 and 4 season's tents.
I have a 4 season Walrus tent : http://moontrail.com/tents/rapeedexv.html
It has been good to me for 8 years, can handle snow load, strong wind, heat, basically anything. I like it a lot, but it needs replacement now. I was thinking about getting something else for change, but cannot decide which brand.
Maybe buying a separate tents (as you are suggesting) would really be better... hmm.. have to think about it.
Thanks!
Posted by Scott Bacon on August 30, 2007 at 4:57 PM
Very cool! And very tempting...
Posted by Brent Murphy on August 30, 2007 at 4:59 PM
I agree that separate tents are the way to go. My 3-season tent is a North Face Roadrunner, and I use a Bibler I-Tent in the winter. I would really like to invest in a tarp, though.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on August 30, 2007 at 5:20 PM
Jesse,
I wanted to bring something to your attention. Silnylon used in the tarptents is not flame retardant. I didn't see it mentioned on their website, but stumbled upon it in a book at Mountain Chalet. Just becareful with matches and don't use the little camping candles and I'm sure you'll be fine.
Gabi,
It could certainly result in a lighter pack if you used a 3 season tent when the weather was warmer.
Mel-
Posted by Jesse Speer on August 30, 2007 at 5:49 PM
Gabi ... yeah, the tarptents are certainly made for 3-season use. But if you look around the internet, you'll find that people are using some of the models in winter - esp. the Double Rainbow with it's optional liner. I've done plenty of winter camping with "3-season" tents. I know some others on this forum who do this too (including Marc Adamus, with all of his winter travels). Condensation has really never been a huge problem for me, and I do a lot of winter camping in the mountains. I have an incredibly light/compact Black Diamond bivy sack that I use inside my winter shelters. If you HAD to go with only one tent, I wouldn't discount certain 3-season designs (along with a light bivy sack). But I agree that having a 3-season AND a winter shelter is best.
I'll also recommend a Black Diamond MegaLight, or similar, as a lightweight alternative to the traditional 4-season tent. I think the pyramid type tents are the next best thing to a snow cave/igloo (without all the work). There are so many reasons why I love my MegaLight. It's incredibly light and very compact, which is a huge benefit when carrying lots of heavy winter gear. It works great in all conditions. You can easily get 2 or 3 people in there, with gear, but it's light enough to use solo. You can stand up in it, cook in it, and so on. Pack a shovel, and you can even dig a trench inside your tent and/or a door below ground level.
You could go with something similar to my setup, a solo tarptent and a MegaLight, and still spend about as much as the typical 4-season tent - and have two very lightweight solutions.
Thanks, Mel. Yeah, I've been using Silnylon stuff for a couple years now. No problems yet!! I've even run my stoves just to provide a little heat. But I don't think I'll be cooking in a small tarptent!
Posted by Gabi Lach on August 30, 2007 at 10:22 PM
Thank you, Jesse! That helped. The MegaLight looks pretty good. I will go to Black Diamond (they have a factory in Salt Lake) and see what they have to offer.
Thanks again!
Posted by Brad Beeler on August 31, 2007 at 5:40 PM
These do greatly remind me of my Black Diamond Firstlight, but less expensive... One thing I will mention is my Black Diamond is not seam sealed, you get a tube of silicone in the packaging. I've only had it for two seasons, and the chance to use it a handful of times, but it weathers fairly well, and yes condensation is an issue.
My 4 season is an REI Mountain Man 2
FWIW
Posted by Stan Rose on September 1, 2007 at 2:59 PM
I have a 4 season Eureka tent, but hardly ever use it. I find in the winter, the best thing is just staying out in the elements and roughing it
Posted by Jack Brauer on September 4, 2007 at 4:34 PM
Jesse - I just met a guy today who had one of these - I think the "Rainshadow 2" but I'm not quite sure. Anyways it was really awesome, and now I want to get one. It's the about the same weight as my current one-man rainfly setup, but with way more footage, and bug net sealed too. Really nice.
Posted by Jesse Speer on September 9, 2007 at 9:14 PM
Quick follow up ... after cancelling a big backpacking trip due to sickness, I trudged out to the mountains for a quick overnighter yesterday - really just to test out the new tent. It IS awesome. The weather was pretty mild (only a light sprinkle), but it held up great in high winds at 12,000 feet in the San Juans. I still can't get over how light it is, considering the tent-like features/design - and the cavernous interior. Anyway, HIGHLY recommended ... even if you have a good solo tent (as I did). Email me if you want details.
Discussion
14 replieshttp://www.tarptent.com/index.html
I just ordered the Contrail model (under 2 pounds!). I can't wait to carry this thing.
I've been content to use a North Face tadpole NHP when I need light, but its still over 3 lbs with all of its parts. I've always liked having a separate rain fly in Colorado though. I think it helps manage condensation and overnight temperatures better.
If you can afford it, you're better off with 2 tents. 4 season tents are pretty heavy for a variety of reasons. I wish The North Face still made my 3/4 season tent (polaris), but they don't. Its similar to the moraine, but the screen panels can all be zipped closed. And it is much lighter than a VE25.
In my mind, the distinction between a 3 and four season tent is that a 4 season tent has screens limited to the doors and those can be covered, and is fully double walled when the fly is used. A 3 season tent usually has screen panels in the tent walls that cannot be covered with solid fabric. 4 Season tents are typically also of a more substantial construction to resist wind and sustain the weight of snow.
In practical use, 4 season tents are typically warmer than 3 season tents due to the solid walls. This causes a mixed result because they may be uncomfortably warm in the summer. Likewise a 3 season tent with its mesh side panels leaves will be useless in winter camping.
Bibler Tents are single wall 4 season tents, but I've always thought there was a significant insulation advantage to a double walled tent over a single walled tent. In addition, I think condensation management is much better in a double walled tent. With single wall tents, you gain the advantage of not carrying a fly, but the fabric is much heavier resulting in a tent that weighs about the same.
Thank you for your response. You are absolutely right about the difference between 3 and 4 season's tents.
I have a 4 season Walrus tent : http://moontrail.com/tents/rapeedexv.html
It has been good to me for 8 years, can handle snow load, strong wind, heat, basically anything. I like it a lot, but it needs replacement now. I was thinking about getting something else for change, but cannot decide which brand.
Maybe buying a separate tents (as you are suggesting) would really be better... hmm.. have to think about it.
Thanks!
I wanted to bring something to your attention. Silnylon used in the tarptents is not flame retardant. I didn't see it mentioned on their website, but stumbled upon it in a book at Mountain Chalet. Just becareful with matches and don't use the little camping candles and I'm sure you'll be fine.
Gabi,
It could certainly result in a lighter pack if you used a 3 season tent when the weather was warmer.
Mel-
I'll also recommend a Black Diamond MegaLight, or similar, as a lightweight alternative to the traditional 4-season tent. I think the pyramid type tents are the next best thing to a snow cave/igloo (without all the work). There are so many reasons why I love my MegaLight. It's incredibly light and very compact, which is a huge benefit when carrying lots of heavy winter gear. It works great in all conditions. You can easily get 2 or 3 people in there, with gear, but it's light enough to use solo. You can stand up in it, cook in it, and so on. Pack a shovel, and you can even dig a trench inside your tent and/or a door below ground level.
You could go with something similar to my setup, a solo tarptent and a MegaLight, and still spend about as much as the typical 4-season tent - and have two very lightweight solutions.
Thanks, Mel. Yeah, I've been using Silnylon stuff for a couple years now. No problems yet!! I've even run my stoves just to provide a little heat. But I don't think I'll be cooking in a small tarptent!
Thanks again!
My 4 season is an REI Mountain Man 2
FWIW