Posted by Steve Makin on September 30, 2007 at 3:56 PM
Just joined the forum after getting a heads up from someone at Leighton Moss who thought I was Phillip ?, it was the Sigma 300-800 that threw him !
Anyhow, I thought that I'd ask a few questions that I've tried elsewhere and not got an answer for, so here goes -
How do you carry your Sigma 300-800 ?, I bought a LowePro AW600 at the same time and it doesnt fit, in fact it doesnt get anywhere near !! (I know I should have paid more attention to the specs). Ideally I'd like to carry the lens with body attached (D2Xs), your opinions gratefully receieved.
2nd question concerns Inner Marsh RSPB site, I've been told about this place but no one seems keen to share its location, I understand that it might be a sensitive place and will respect that fact but as its an RSPB site isnt it open to memebers ? (I am a member).
3rd question, looking around this site I'm amazed at the sheer quality of some of the images, I have some nice shots but nothing approaching this quality, question is how much post processing is done as a general rule, I dont do anything as I havent had any soft ware other than Micro Soft photo editor until recently (just got a copy af Aperture but still ploughing through the tutorial DVD). How much sharpening goes on ?, my Sigma is very sharp when the subject is in focus but my success rate is maybe 1 in 30 sharp shots, and out of that 1 in 30, maybe only 1 in 10 is a keeper (exposure, composition etc).
Soooo...., thats a lot of questions to be going on with, here's hoping someone can help :-)
Steve
Posted by Tim Munsey on September 30, 2007 at 4:22 PM
Hi Steve,
The raw convertors from the manufacturers such as canon and nikon are good these days, alternatively a well recommended one is breezebrowser. Photoshop elements covers a lot, if you have the dosh photoshop CS3 is the bees knees.
Take your time and enjoy.
Tim
Posted by Steve Makin on September 30, 2007 at 4:32 PM
Thanks for the reply Tim :-)
Aperture has the RAW conversion software, I've been shooting RAW and large JPEG for a w hile now with a view to using RAW files at a later date
Can't help with the first question or the second one I'm afraid as I don't own a lens that long and I'm not familiar with that particular reserve.
Regarding the third question about post-processing,I'd imagine 99% of images posted on the forum have been sharpened,or at least they should have been as it's an essential part of the workflow,IMHO.
How much processing will depend on the subject matter and the photographer.
Personally I tend to do very little to my wildlife images other than levels,curves,low saturation increase and occasionally cloning any small imperfections such as the odd blade of grass,hotspot,small twig perhaps and the inevitable dust spots which thankfully are rarely evident when shooting wildlife at maximum apertures. Sharpening is also done whether for web or print.
For landscape images the above applies but I'll quite often spend a bit more time than the couple of minutes spent on wildlife shots,mainly doing such things as exposure blending, occasionally dodging and burning, and perhaps selective colour and contrast enhancements.
Most of these techniques are still fairly new to me and I treat them more as part of an enjoyable learning curve and experimentations, rather than essential enhancements,at this time.
Posted by Craig Nash on September 30, 2007 at 4:38 PM
I would look at Lightroom as well with PS elements. Looking forward to you posting some 300-800 photos
Posted by Tim Munsey on September 30, 2007 at 4:42 PM
Hi Steve, missed your aperture ref, also sadly can't see your pic
Posted by Steve Makin on September 30, 2007 at 4:45 PM
Steve, the image above exceeds both the pixel dimesions and the file size to show on this forum hence why you have to link to it.; if you resize it you can add it as an image when posting so it shows directly on the forum.
1. I personally don’t have a 300-800, but use a 600 f4 for that I use an Heritage bag. But saying that, I would email Philip direct, who will be more than will to help you.
2. Do a web search “Inner marsh”, you will get the basic information you are seeking. It is open to RSPB members and there is a hide, and as I understand it parking is limited as it is a relatively small reserve, 30 hectares, but has been designated as a SSSI and proposed as a possible RAMSAR site.
3.You will find that most N.H. photographers do minimal post processing. If you do a search on this site and others, you will find articles where individuals explain their basic techniques in detail. In my case, I first view/edit my images in BreezeBrowser, then convert to tiff/jpeg using Nikon software. Then using Photoshop, although not a essential program, I then do sharpening, USM, as required followed by perhaps cropping and shadows/highlights, if I feel it necessary.
But one thing I would suggest before attempting to post any images, is to get your screen calibrated, it could save a lot heart ache.
For your information, there are quite a few tutorial CD’s on the market, for example “Adobe Photoshop fro Photographers” as well as CD dedicated to specific programs and versions. If you ever consider buying Photoshop, for example, buy an early version on e-bay, then the upgrade, that will save you quite a few pounds.
On CD’s, there is a whole raft of subject matter out there, from hide and feeding station working, calls and calling techniques immediately come to mind. Try and get hold of some of them, they will save you both time and money.
Posted by Tim Munsey on September 30, 2007 at 5:14 PM
Nice shot of a young heron, a bit central composition wise- its good if your subject has some space to fly/look into. Could do with a touch more sharpening. Still a fine first post, look forward to more and perhaps seeing you at Leighton.
Tim
Posted by Steve Makin on September 30, 2007 at 5:16 PM
thanks Tim, no processing at all on that one, hopefully the RAW file will enable some sharpening and cropping, now then, I've sused out how to start a thread with a photo but cant see a way to post a photo into an existing thread, I'm obviously missing something !
Posted by Steve Makin on September 30, 2007 at 5:25 PM
Thanks Ray, much appreciated -
On CDs, there is a whole raft of subject matter out there, from hide and feeding station working, calls and calling techniques immediately come to mind. Try and get hold of some of them, they will save you both time and money.
thanks also for that, I've been wondering how I could earn some field craft, I'll have a hunt around the web for something alonng thses lines :-)
Posted by Andy Astbury on September 30, 2007 at 7:45 PM
This will carry the 300-800 attached to a D2Xs body, plus most anything else you can fit in it - truely a BIG capacity - and as far as I know the only bag with enough length to do the job.
Inner Marsh - not been myself but have been reliably informed by others that it's not outstanding from a photographers PoV: same old story - what a 'birder' classes as close isn't what a photographer would class as close.
As to your third question - well, the sharpest full size image will need to be resharpened when it is down-sized to a usable web image.
Welcome to the forum - you should find plenty of answers to you questions on NPN.
Can't help with your 1st two Q"s - as to the amount of post-processing...that depends on the poster and the photo! Every photo you take should have a degree of sharpening applied in your post-processing - your camera has a filter directly in front of the sensor who's job it is to soften the image so that you don't get stepped/jagged edges. If you shoot in RAW, then you need to apply your own USM/Sharpening (either in PS or in Aperture). If you shoot in jpg, then you camera will most likely apply some sharpening for you depending on your settings. There're some articles in the NPN archives which go into the basics of image processing - you can check them out here (the yanks refer to them as 101's). You should also check back through the full archives as there're some good workflow/processing articles in there too - you might have to go back a few years to find them.
BTW, if you're using Aperture, then make sure you use the 'Edge Sharpening' tool - not the older 'Sharpening' one. There is a big difference between the two. Apple left the 'Sharpening' tool available only for backwards compatability with earlier versions of Aperture.
Posted by Rob Ashton on October 1, 2007 at 6:45 AM
Welcome Steve,
1) One question that I find hard to get answers to is the bag issue. I don't have anything as big as your Sigma but my Canon 400mm and body are a pain to find a suitable bag for. It's not so much length with my system but the width required for the Lens hood. The Lowepro Supertrekker II is probably good to go.
2) Inner Marsh RSPB. I don't know what it is like photographically. I will be there in 2 - 3 weeks time (Dee Estuary in general). I hope that the area is productive. Do you live in the area??
3) I don't do too much post processing (cropping and sharpening mainly). I use Lightroom or PS Elements 5. Depending on what the output is (Web, Print).
Welcome... Can't add much more to the replies you have had so far....
Posted by Elliott Neep on October 1, 2007 at 10:29 AM
Welcome...
How do you carry your Sigma 300-800? Don't have one, but Philip normally has his attached to a tripod and slings it over his shoulder.
Inner Marsh RSPB: This might help... http://www.rspbliverpool.org.uk/RSPBIMF.htm
3rd question: You will be able to do everything you need with Aperture. Its very similar to Adobe Lightroom. Normal workflow - 1. Skim through and delete obvious rubbish with Breezebrowser (its cheap, small, simple and the fastest there is for quick browse and edit); 2. 100% shartpness edit and raw conversion with either Lightroom, Aperture, Nikon View, Canon DPP, Adobe Camera Raw, etc - whatever's your poison!; 3. Export jpeg or tiff for archive; 4. In Photoshop or straight from your converter - a quick 720px resize, light sharpen, sRGB colour for web.
Hi the only bag I know of that will take it with a camera body attached is the super trekker all whether I use a trekker 600 for my 800 but you cannot mount a camera body on it and close the bag. Tom W did have some special ones made if you drop Tom a e-mail he may be able to help ?, inner marsh farm is okay for birdwatching but not what I would call a great site for wildlife photography. As for software well nikon capture nx is the best for decoding the raw file for your nikon bodies interface is a bit clunky, most people use photoshop once they have converted the raw file to a tiff or JPEG.
You can always e-mail me from the e-mail icon in the post and I am more than willing to help in any way I can.
Phillip.
Posted by Steve Makin on October 1, 2007 at 3:29 PM
Thanks all for the kind replies, Philip, I reckon it was you who I was mistaken for as yo appear to be using a Sigma 800 ?, I guess you are based in the north west area ?
Last gap chance is an email to Think Tank to see if they will make me something along the lines of the Lowe Pro AW600, Lowe Pro arent interested in making an 800 version, failing that it'll be a Super Trekker but my word they are big things !
Also thanks for the info on Inner Marsh Farm, maybe it isnt such a top secret site after all :-)
This wildlife photography lark is sure addictive, went out straight after work tonight to photograph the deer at Dunham Park, the light was awful but I saw 2 stags in the early stages and could hear their antlers clashing all around me, quite spooky in the twilight.
No good shots but lots of fun.
:-)
Posted by Steve Makin on October 1, 2007 at 3:41 PM
Okay, I should try to answer the questions above as you've all been so kind ;-)
Rob, I live in the Manchester area and am currently exploring as many nature sites as I can find, I've concentrated on the Leighton Moss, Mere Sands, Marshside area most of this year (well since the spring when my interest was piqued). My wife and I went to the Dee estuary on Sunday and headed to Point of Ayr/Talacre area, wasnt a great deal around but I can imagine it'd be a great winter place (given my limited knowledge on the subject) Parkgate is very popular by all accounts and the Dee Estuary website is full of good info.
Elliot, I currently carry the lens and body via a RSPB Tripod strap attached to the lens slung over my shoulder, its quite acceptable for about a 2 mile hike, after that its weight shows itself, and of course its not rainproof. I've been usingit with a bean bag from Wildlife Watching supplies after seeing someone else doing the same, its okay but no use at all for panning flight shots,I'll be getting a Kirk or Wmberley head for my tripod once my bank balance has recovered from the outlay for the lens.
Discussion
20 repliesAnyhow, I thought that I'd ask a few questions that I've tried elsewhere and not got an answer for, so here goes -
How do you carry your Sigma 300-800 ?, I bought a LowePro AW600 at the same time and it doesnt fit, in fact it doesnt get anywhere near !! (I know I should have paid more attention to the specs). Ideally I'd like to carry the lens with body attached (D2Xs), your opinions gratefully receieved.
2nd question concerns Inner Marsh RSPB site, I've been told about this place but no one seems keen to share its location, I understand that it might be a sensitive place and will respect that fact but as its an RSPB site isnt it open to memebers ? (I am a member).
3rd question, looking around this site I'm amazed at the sheer quality of some of the images, I have some nice shots but nothing approaching this quality, question is how much post processing is done as a general rule, I dont do anything as I havent had any soft ware other than Micro Soft photo editor until recently (just got a copy af Aperture but still ploughing through the tutorial DVD). How much sharpening goes on ?, my Sigma is very sharp when the subject is in focus but my success rate is maybe 1 in 30 sharp shots, and out of that 1 in 30, maybe only 1 in 10 is a keeper (exposure, composition etc).
Soooo...., thats a lot of questions to be going on with, here's hoping someone can help :-)
Steve
The raw convertors from the manufacturers such as canon and nikon are good these days, alternatively a well recommended one is breezebrowser. Photoshop elements covers a lot, if you have the dosh photoshop CS3 is the bees knees.
Take your time and enjoy.
Tim
Aperture has the RAW conversion software, I've been shooting RAW and large JPEG for a w hile now with a view to using RAW files at a later date
one of my better shots here ( I hope)
here
Can't help with the first question or the second one I'm afraid as I don't own a lens that long and I'm not familiar with that particular reserve.
Regarding the third question about post-processing,I'd imagine 99% of images posted on the forum have been sharpened,or at least they should have been as it's an essential part of the workflow,IMHO.
How much processing will depend on the subject matter and the photographer.
Personally I tend to do very little to my wildlife images other than levels,curves,low saturation increase and occasionally cloning any small imperfections such as the odd blade of grass,hotspot,small twig perhaps and the inevitable dust spots which thankfully are rarely evident when shooting wildlife at maximum apertures. Sharpening is also done whether for web or print.
For landscape images the above applies but I'll quite often spend a bit more time than the couple of minutes spent on wildlife shots,mainly doing such things as exposure blending, occasionally dodging and burning, and perhaps selective colour and contrast enhancements.
Most of these techniques are still fairly new to me and I treat them more as part of an enjoyable learning curve and experimentations, rather than essential enhancements,at this time.
Thanks Tim
Please read the NPN guidlines Here
lastly welcome
now, where's the idiots guide !
Taking your questions one at a time.
1. I personally don’t have a 300-800, but use a 600 f4 for that I use an Heritage bag. But saying that, I would email Philip direct, who will be more than will to help you.
2. Do a web search “Inner marsh”, you will get the basic information you are seeking. It is open to RSPB members and there is a hide, and as I understand it parking is limited as it is a relatively small reserve, 30 hectares, but has been designated as a SSSI and proposed as a possible RAMSAR site.
3.You will find that most N.H. photographers do minimal post processing. If you do a search on this site and others, you will find articles where individuals explain their basic techniques in detail. In my case, I first view/edit my images in BreezeBrowser, then convert to tiff/jpeg using Nikon software. Then using Photoshop, although not a essential program, I then do sharpening, USM, as required followed by perhaps cropping and shadows/highlights, if I feel it necessary.
But one thing I would suggest before attempting to post any images, is to get your screen calibrated, it could save a lot heart ache.
For your information, there are quite a few tutorial CD’s on the market, for example “Adobe Photoshop fro Photographers” as well as CD dedicated to specific programs and versions. If you ever consider buying Photoshop, for example, buy an early version on e-bay, then the upgrade, that will save you quite a few pounds.
On CD’s, there is a whole raft of subject matter out there, from hide and feeding station working, calls and calling techniques immediately come to mind. Try and get hold of some of them, they will save you both time and money.
Tim
On CDs, there is a whole raft of subject matter out there, from hide and feeding station working, calls and calling techniques immediately come to mind. Try and get hold of some of them, they will save you both time and money.
thanks also for that, I've been wondering how I could earn some field craft, I'll have a hunt around the web for something alonng thses lines :-)
http://www.lowepro.com/Products/Backpacks/allWeather/Super_Trekker_AW_II.aspx
This will carry the 300-800 attached to a D2Xs body, plus most anything else you can fit in it - truely a BIG capacity - and as far as I know the only bag with enough length to do the job.
Inner Marsh - not been myself but have been reliably informed by others that it's not outstanding from a photographers PoV: same old story - what a 'birder' classes as close isn't what a photographer would class as close.
As to your third question - well, the sharpest full size image will need to be resharpened when it is down-sized to a usable web image.
Welcome to the forum - you should find plenty of answers to you questions on NPN.
Can't help with your 1st two Q"s - as to the amount of post-processing...that depends on the poster and the photo! Every photo you take should have a degree of sharpening applied in your post-processing - your camera has a filter directly in front of the sensor who's job it is to soften the image so that you don't get stepped/jagged edges. If you shoot in RAW, then you need to apply your own USM/Sharpening (either in PS or in Aperture). If you shoot in jpg, then you camera will most likely apply some sharpening for you depending on your settings. There're some articles in the NPN archives which go into the basics of image processing - you can check them out here (the yanks refer to them as 101's). You should also check back through the full archives as there're some good workflow/processing articles in there too - you might have to go back a few years to find them.
BTW, if you're using Aperture, then make sure you use the 'Edge Sharpening' tool - not the older 'Sharpening' one. There is a big difference between the two. Apple left the 'Sharpening' tool available only for backwards compatability with earlier versions of Aperture.
1) One question that I find hard to get answers to is the bag issue. I don't have anything as big as your Sigma but my Canon 400mm and body are a pain to find a suitable bag for. It's not so much length with my system but the width required for the Lens hood. The Lowepro Supertrekker II is probably good to go.
2) Inner Marsh RSPB. I don't know what it is like photographically. I will be there in 2 - 3 weeks time (Dee Estuary in general). I hope that the area is productive. Do you live in the area??
3) I don't do too much post processing (cropping and sharpening mainly). I use Lightroom or PS Elements 5. Depending on what the output is (Web, Print).
How do you carry your Sigma 300-800? Don't have one, but Philip normally has his attached to a tripod and slings it over his shoulder.
Inner Marsh RSPB: This might help... http://www.rspbliverpool.org.uk/RSPBIMF.htm
3rd question: You will be able to do everything you need with Aperture. Its very similar to Adobe Lightroom. Normal workflow - 1. Skim through and delete obvious rubbish with Breezebrowser (its cheap, small, simple and the fastest there is for quick browse and edit); 2. 100% shartpness edit and raw conversion with either Lightroom, Aperture, Nikon View, Canon DPP, Adobe Camera Raw, etc - whatever's your poison!; 3. Export jpeg or tiff for archive; 4. In Photoshop or straight from your converter - a quick 720px resize, light sharpen, sRGB colour for web.
You can always e-mail me from the e-mail icon in the post and I am more than willing to help in any way I can.
Phillip.
Last gap chance is an email to Think Tank to see if they will make me something along the lines of the Lowe Pro AW600, Lowe Pro arent interested in making an 800 version, failing that it'll be a Super Trekker but my word they are big things !
Also thanks for the info on Inner Marsh Farm, maybe it isnt such a top secret site after all :-)
This wildlife photography lark is sure addictive, went out straight after work tonight to photograph the deer at Dunham Park, the light was awful but I saw 2 stags in the early stages and could hear their antlers clashing all around me, quite spooky in the twilight.
No good shots but lots of fun.
:-)
Rob, I live in the Manchester area and am currently exploring as many nature sites as I can find, I've concentrated on the Leighton Moss, Mere Sands, Marshside area most of this year (well since the spring when my interest was piqued). My wife and I went to the Dee estuary on Sunday and headed to Point of Ayr/Talacre area, wasnt a great deal around but I can imagine it'd be a great winter place (given my limited knowledge on the subject) Parkgate is very popular by all accounts and the Dee Estuary website is full of good info.
Elliot, I currently carry the lens and body via a RSPB Tripod strap attached to the lens slung over my shoulder, its quite acceptable for about a 2 mile hike, after that its weight shows itself, and of course its not rainproof. I've been usingit with a bean bag from Wildlife Watching supplies after seeing someone else doing the same, its okay but no use at all for panning flight shots,I'll be getting a Kirk or Wmberley head for my tripod once my bank balance has recovered from the outlay for the lens.