Posted by Lance Warley on September 30, 2007 at 7:46 PM
They may have been there for awile, but I have just seen my first warblers at Green Cay. I was lucky enough to see a Cape May and an American Redstart.
Both were flitting from branch to branch on large trees with big leaves, possibly fig trees. Anyway, the birds were always backlit, and all my shots were crappy because the sky that filtered in between the leaves is overexposed.
I tried using a flash, which I have just bought and have never used before today. The flash didn't help. It made everything too bright.
I use an XTi with a 4005.6L prime lens, and a new 580 ex speedlite and a beamer. I shot in Aperture mode, f8, iso 400, with the flash at -1 and a third and then at -1 and two thirds.
Any suggestions, please? Thanks in advance.
Or, you could just send me the Richard Ditch camera plugin. That would be fine, too.
Posted by Dan Borzynski on September 30, 2007 at 7:55 PM
Your basic plan looks good, although with your overexposure comment, maybe go down on the compensation.
Would you be willing to post one of your images, either here or on the avian forum? That might help with suggestions.
Hmmm, by any chance, did you have the flash in manual and try to do compensation from the camera? If I remember correctly on the 550/580 flashes, when you have the flash set for manual, it overrides the camera signals. (More knowledgeable people - if that is wrong, yell at me!!!!).
Posted by Lance Warley on October 1, 2007 at 8:18 AM
Thanks, Dan. I'm putting a link in Avian to point to this.
I checked the flash and I was in ettl mode.
I know the pic has other problems, such as it's soft, but that's a normal error. It's the backlighting that has me stymied.
Posted by Bob Steele on October 1, 2007 at 8:31 AM
Lance,
You have to treat the ambient exposure for the background separately from the flash exposure for the foreground. If you are metering in Evaluative, a scene like this will typically require between -.7 and -1.3 negative exposure compensation to control the background brightness. The flash setting will be dependent on the amount and direction of sunlight hitting the subject and foreground elements. A good starting place is with - 1 FEC (flash exposure compensation). Each situation will take a little tweaking to get perfect. Use your in-camera histogram and blinking highlights to evaluate the results and adjust from there. Do enough of this kind of shooting and the settings will become easier to get correct.
Posted by Lance Warley on October 1, 2007 at 8:39 AM
Thanks, Bob. I had the exposure comp at -.7, but evidently I need to increase that. Will do :)
Dan, I forgot I posted in Avian yesterday, so I can't put anything there until tomorrow.
Posted by Dan Borzynski on October 1, 2007 at 11:20 PM
Here is one thing which I have run across for outdoor human portrait work. I've done it on only a few occassions, so I'll leave it to others to fill in ideas or clarifications.
Meter the scene. Set the camera to -1 off of the metered reading. This will make the background about a stop darker.
Now set the flash to +1. The reason why it is not set to 0 is because it will try to match your camera compensated setting of -1, so the subject will be underexposed by a stop. Going to +1 gets the subject back up to the correct exposure. Bob, does that sound right?
Ideally, what should result is a darker background with a properly exposed subject.
For something actively moving though, such as warblers, this may actually cause more problems. With your posted example, you run the risk of blowing out the leaves in front of the bird. Also, if you are using spotmetering, the metering will take into a small part of the scene. The wrong element and the exposure will be a mess. Evaluative metering, for what you have posted, might work better as it takes in both the highlights and the shadows. Also, using aperature or shutter priority might work better here than full manual mode as the metering will probably change significantly as the bird moves. If this is a location you shoot frequently, play with combinations of settings until you find one which you can generally predict what will happen.
Photo critique (with your question in mind). It looks light you got the metering of the bird just right - it is the background which is letting you down. If possible, try for a more uniform background, or maybe a different time of day when behind it is not in full sun.
Posted by Bob Steele on October 2, 2007 at 12:02 AM
Dan,
I've never shot an image in a situation similar to what's being discussed here with FEC less than -.3 -- and that's only for the darkest of shade on the subject. Anything more will flatten out the subject, making it looked 'pasted' into the scene.
Posted by Lance Warley on October 2, 2007 at 8:42 AM
Thanks very much, guys. This clarifies a lot. I really appeciate it.
Now it's on me.
Posted by Steve Foss on October 2, 2007 at 8:45 AM
I've used Dan's technique for backlit people shots, but not for birds. I agree that it's likely to blow out the foreground leaves and would leave the bird looking harshly lit. I also think Lance's image, while it has the softness problem he mentioned (and the color balance is off) is properly exposed as per flash. It looks pretty natural to my eye.
Posted by Richard Ditch on October 2, 2007 at 12:53 PM
I'd like one of those plug-ins as well!
I think you're taking on one of the most difficult situations here - small active birds in varible light and cluttered settings. This is a lot different than the more controlled situations a lot of people use - baiting these birds with water at migrant concentration points, or pulling in a bird with a taped call to a selected perch with a controlled background.
Some thoughts on this aproach:
- Your 400/5.6 should be a great lens for this type work since it is light and easy to use hand held.
- try using the lens in manual focus mode - the leaves and branches can confuse the AF and cause more trouble than help.
- don't expect a high rate of success, so take lots of shots and edit heavily afterwards.
- shoot "open" compositions to allow for movement and fine tune with moderate cropping.
- try shooting without flash - that will avoid the unevenness and bright foreground leaves.
- avoid sunny days whenever possilbe.
Discussion
9 repliesBoth were flitting from branch to branch on large trees with big leaves, possibly fig trees. Anyway, the birds were always backlit, and all my shots were crappy because the sky that filtered in between the leaves is overexposed.
I tried using a flash, which I have just bought and have never used before today. The flash didn't help. It made everything too bright.
I use an XTi with a 4005.6L prime lens, and a new 580 ex speedlite and a beamer. I shot in Aperture mode, f8, iso 400, with the flash at -1 and a third and then at -1 and two thirds.
Any suggestions, please? Thanks in advance.
Or, you could just send me the Richard Ditch camera plugin. That would be fine, too.
Would you be willing to post one of your images, either here or on the avian forum? That might help with suggestions.
Hmmm, by any chance, did you have the flash in manual and try to do compensation from the camera? If I remember correctly on the 550/580 flashes, when you have the flash set for manual, it overrides the camera signals. (More knowledgeable people - if that is wrong, yell at me!!!!).
I checked the flash and I was in ettl mode.
I know the pic has other problems, such as it's soft, but that's a normal error. It's the backlighting that has me stymied.
You have to treat the ambient exposure for the background separately from the flash exposure for the foreground. If you are metering in Evaluative, a scene like this will typically require between -.7 and -1.3 negative exposure compensation to control the background brightness. The flash setting will be dependent on the amount and direction of sunlight hitting the subject and foreground elements. A good starting place is with - 1 FEC (flash exposure compensation). Each situation will take a little tweaking to get perfect. Use your in-camera histogram and blinking highlights to evaluate the results and adjust from there. Do enough of this kind of shooting and the settings will become easier to get correct.
Dan, I forgot I posted in Avian yesterday, so I can't put anything there until tomorrow.
Meter the scene. Set the camera to -1 off of the metered reading. This will make the background about a stop darker.
Now set the flash to +1. The reason why it is not set to 0 is because it will try to match your camera compensated setting of -1, so the subject will be underexposed by a stop. Going to +1 gets the subject back up to the correct exposure. Bob, does that sound right?
Ideally, what should result is a darker background with a properly exposed subject.
For something actively moving though, such as warblers, this may actually cause more problems. With your posted example, you run the risk of blowing out the leaves in front of the bird. Also, if you are using spotmetering, the metering will take into a small part of the scene. The wrong element and the exposure will be a mess. Evaluative metering, for what you have posted, might work better as it takes in both the highlights and the shadows. Also, using aperature or shutter priority might work better here than full manual mode as the metering will probably change significantly as the bird moves. If this is a location you shoot frequently, play with combinations of settings until you find one which you can generally predict what will happen.
Photo critique (with your question in mind). It looks light you got the metering of the bird just right - it is the background which is letting you down. If possible, try for a more uniform background, or maybe a different time of day when behind it is not in full sun.
I've never shot an image in a situation similar to what's being discussed here with FEC less than -.3 -- and that's only for the darkest of shade on the subject. Anything more will flatten out the subject, making it looked 'pasted' into the scene.
Now it's on me.
I think you're taking on one of the most difficult situations here - small active birds in varible light and cluttered settings. This is a lot different than the more controlled situations a lot of people use - baiting these birds with water at migrant concentration points, or pulling in a bird with a taped call to a selected perch with a controlled background.
Some thoughts on this aproach:
- Your 400/5.6 should be a great lens for this type work since it is light and easy to use hand held.
- try using the lens in manual focus mode - the leaves and branches can confuse the AF and cause more trouble than help.
- don't expect a high rate of success, so take lots of shots and edit heavily afterwards.
- shoot "open" compositions to allow for movement and fine tune with moderate cropping.
- try shooting without flash - that will avoid the unevenness and bright foreground leaves.
- avoid sunny days whenever possilbe.