Posted by Mel Ladewig on October 10, 2007 at 6:38 PM
So that $100 dollar 4X5 at the fleamarket worked. I'm a full 4X5 junkie now.
So I've got some 4X5 questions. I know alot of this has been discussed before, but I could find the previous discussions.
The camera I've got is a Calumet rail from about 1970. The thing is way to heavy to carry more than 1.4 mile from the car and the rail makes it real tough to put in a backpack. I attached the photo because it might help me get some answers where I don't know the terms for the camera components.
So the search for a field camera begins...
I'm looking at two lower end field cameras (if you have other suggestions please feel free to add them). I'm looking at the Tachihara and Shen Hao. I plan to use my existing lenses, which are both mounted on Compur shutters. They are a 150/5.6 and a 65/8.
First off, a question about the lens boards. Does anyone know if my calumet lens boards will work with either of these cameras? I know that the Tachihara uses the Linhoff style board, but I'm not sure what the Shen Hao or my Calumet use. Do I need to worry about recessed lens boards for my 65mm with either camera? It doesn't look like its a problem with the Tachihara, but I'm not sure about the Shen Hao.
Second, what are the differences in the way the backs operate. My calumet has a spring back where it lifts the glass and you slide the film holder into the slot, then release the spring and let the ground glass frame hold the film holder in place. Works for me. To rotate the back to vertical, I just twist the back and a circular section of the back moves to vertical. Also works for me.
It appears that the Shen Hao has a a slot that holds the ground glass. How do you switch this to portrait orientation? How does this work with the film holder? Do you slide out the ground glass and hold it? I've read that the Tachihara has a spring back. Is is the same as what I've got on the Calumet? I've read that it is easy to switch to portrait orientation.
What other factors should I consider? I know that the Shen Hao has additional rear movements. Trees and architecture are not my main subjects. Do I need to worry about this? There is a weight difference, and I've been trying to lighten my pack all year so the Tachihara is much more appealing from that standpoint.
Mel-
Posted by Kalin Wilson on October 10, 2007 at 7:29 PM
Mel,
I am enjoying my Shen Hao. I don't have anything else to compare it to, in my experience, other than seeing other guy's cameras.
Give me a call and we can meet before or after work. You can get your hands on the Shen Hao, see if your lens boards will work, etc. Let me know if you don't still have my number.
Kalin
Posted by Joshua Hardin on October 10, 2007 at 7:32 PM
Mel, I have a Shen Hao 4x5II but I've only been shooting with it for a couple of months. I can answer a few of your questions though.
The Shen Hao uses Linhof boards. I don't think it will accept Calumet, but not sure. I have a 150mm and 90mm lens and have no need for a recessed lens board yet. I don't think you'll need one for your 65mm, but I haven't yet tried a lens this wide for my camera. I do know that Shen Hao sells a leather-like wide angle bellows for use with wider lenses.
I have a Fuji Quickload holder. It slides behind the ground glass (The glass is on a spring and holds the holder very tight) so there is no need to take the glass out and hold it. You can easily flip the back from portrait to horizontal orientation, there are a couple of black brackets that you have to loosen on the top of the camera which you may have seen from the model's photos that allow for the back to be taken off and switched. Not quite as easy as your Calumet, but not very hard to do on the Shen Hao either.
Shen Hao has a ton of movements, but I have not yet used most of them in landscape photos, but am looking forward to trying with trees or architecture. For the price the versatility of the movements can't be beat.
I know Kalin has a Shen Hao too, and I just saw he replied above. He could add some more information of what I don't know about it. Have fun in your LF search and let us know what you get.
Posted by Rene Pirolt on October 10, 2007 at 8:04 PM
Personally I own an Ebony Camera, but due to the large group of LF users here, I had to chance to play with most cameras.
Both Tachihara and Shen-Hao use the same Linhof style boards (so do Linhof, Ebony, Wista, and some other LF cameras). If your Calumet board is an old 6” x 6” board, it will not fit.
Both cameras have a standard spring back (similar to yours). The Shen-Hao also has a Graflok back, in case you ever need to attach a Roll-Film back or a Grafmatic film magazine. For both cameras (and this is true for most field cameras), in order to rotate the back, you need to physically remove the back. This is a quick process, but not as quick as your rotating back.
The Shen-Hao also has a slightly longer bellows extension (360mm vs. 330mm). Take a look at www.badgergraphic.com to see some of the specs for each model.
Either camera is a great choice, but if I had to chose, I think I would pick the Shen-Hao…and that is also because I think the camera looks really cool with the black hardware!
I've been using the Tachihara for over a year now and love it! I picked the Tach over the Shen because of the weight. There is almost a 2 lb difference between the two. This is a big deal on a ten mile hike. I've never come close to running out of movements on the Tach. I regularly use a 75mm lens and still have plenty of room for movements, I think a 65mm would be fine, and you still probably wouldnt need a recessed board. They say that the Shen "feels" more rigid than the Tach. but I can attest that the Tach. is plenty sturdy. My longest lens is a 300 f/9 and I can focus to about 8 ft. Calumet does make a roll film holder than fits on the Tach., I think its the C-2. Hope this helps.
Adam
Posted by John Klotz on October 10, 2007 at 9:58 PM
Mel that looks like the one I had until the mid 1990's when I sold most of my gear. I don't miss the weight but you can't beat 4x5 for quality of course unless you have 5x7 or 8x10!
A Adams "The Camera" is a great book to have along with "The Negative" and "The Print" especially if you are into B&W. I hope you enjoy what ever cam you get!
John
Posted by Mark Stahlke on October 10, 2007 at 10:06 PM
I also use a Tachihara. Like Adam, I chose it over the Shen Hao because of the weight. I use lenses from 65mm to 300mm. The 65mm will just barely work on a flat lens board but I have it mounted on a recessed board. Some people say recessed boards are harder to use and, while they are right, it's not a big deal.
One advantage of switching to Technika style lensboards is that a lot of different cameras accept them and many cameras have adapters for them. You can probably get a Technika lensboard adapter for your Calumet.
Posted by Tony Bouchard on October 10, 2007 at 11:09 PM
I owned a Tachihara and found that it wasn't rigid enough. I haven't used a Shen Hao, but they look more solid. I moved up to an Ebony with asymmetical movements, and I'm very satisfied.
I've been using the Tachihara for many years now and have never had a problem. I bought it based entirely on weight and price. If you go with the Tachihara, be certain NOT to buy one of the older models with the chrome knobs. There was a production problem with some of them. The glass was not on the same plane as the film so images would come out just a tad fuzzy even though it was tack sharp on the glass. They resolved the problem with the newer models. If you get one with the brass knobs and nylon washers, you should be fine.
Both are excellent cameras. If weight is the major factor, go with the Tachihara. If you want more movements, go with the Shen. But, I've never come across a scene where I didn't have enought movement on the Tachihara.
Posted by Rich Long on October 10, 2007 at 11:30 PM
I've owned both the Tachi and the Shen Hao. Tony's second paragraph above sums it up nicely.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on October 11, 2007 at 11:43 AM
The lens board for my Calumet is much smaller than 6"X6". I'd say it is more like 4X4. It appears that is roughly the size of linhoff technika boards. My boards are square or at least square enought to be mounted in any orientation on the camera. The photos I've seen of the linhoff style boards are basically square and appear to be the same size as my existing boards, but two corners are cut off. Is this required to fit the board?
I do like the black hardware of the Shen Hao, but I think the lighter weight of the Tachihara would be a much better fit for my needs. I will probably be buying new.
And Kalin, I'll definitely catch up with you though I'm a bit busy with work and home maintenance stuff right now and it might be a couple weeks. I'm not in a hurry for this purchase. I'd like to see the Shen Hao. Then I'll know what I'm missing with the Tachihara (and can return it if I like the Shen hao better).
Thanks everyone for the info.
Mel-
Posted by Mark Stahlke on October 11, 2007 at 12:16 PM
Technika style lensboards are rectangular and measure 96mm by 99mm. It sounds like your Calumet uses 4x4 lensboards. They will not fit a camera that uses Technika style lensboards.
Posted by George Hager on October 11, 2007 at 2:28 PM
You can purchase the generic Linhoff type lens boards you will need from Badger for a good price. Linhoff wants slightly more than you would pay for a three legged albino elephant that can tap dance and sing in three languages.
Posted by Kalin Wilson on October 11, 2007 at 4:16 PM
I've also seen linhof boards on Ebay and largeformatphotography.info for cheap. There are even guys that make their own and sell them. I have an extra one but may end up using it if I get a wide-angle lens.
I bought a bunch of the $10 boards on EBay from China and they all work fine.
RichieV
Posted by Jack Brauer on October 12, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Hi Mel,
Your Calumet looks like a beast!!!
I use a Tachihara and it works great for me. I've never used anything else though so I can't compare. My widest lens is a 75mm, and although I didn't need a recessed board for it, I got one (about 0.5 inch deep) and it does help give a little breathing room for movements. I would guess that you'd definitely want a recessed board for a 65mm.
Also, as a sidenote to Tony's comment, I have what appears to be a new model, but with silver hardware. It works fine... no focussing issues.
Posted by Mel Ladewig on October 12, 2007 at 4:20 PM
Jack,
Thanks for your input. I was definitely interested in your experience.
Mel-
Posted by Rick Dunn on October 13, 2007 at 6:34 PM
Hey Mel,
looks like you got plenty of help on the camera questions; I'm shooting with a Wista, so I wouldn't be of much help anyway. I just wanted to $ay, now that you're hooked, it'$ great to have another LF $hooter in the club!
Posted by Laurent Baig on October 13, 2007 at 6:38 PM
Mel,
I have both a Shen Hao and an Osaka. I prefer the Osaka (Tachihara is just like it). I find I don't use axis tilts that much and I don't use rear rise or shift. The Tachi/Osaka is lighter at 3.8 lbs versus near 5 for the SH. I'd use a recessed board on 75mm and shorter on both cameras (unless you get the bag bellows for the SH). You'll be bellows severely bellows cramped with both cameras, but you don't get much movement with a 65mm anyway. They both use Linhof style boards.
You may want to check out the Chamonix cameras, they appear to be getting rave reviews.
Discussion
18 repliesSo I've got some 4X5 questions. I know alot of this has been discussed before, but I could find the previous discussions.
The camera I've got is a Calumet rail from about 1970. The thing is way to heavy to carry more than 1.4 mile from the car and the rail makes it real tough to put in a backpack. I attached the photo because it might help me get some answers where I don't know the terms for the camera components.
So the search for a field camera begins...
I'm looking at two lower end field cameras (if you have other suggestions please feel free to add them). I'm looking at the Tachihara and Shen Hao. I plan to use my existing lenses, which are both mounted on Compur shutters. They are a 150/5.6 and a 65/8.
First off, a question about the lens boards. Does anyone know if my calumet lens boards will work with either of these cameras? I know that the Tachihara uses the Linhoff style board, but I'm not sure what the Shen Hao or my Calumet use. Do I need to worry about recessed lens boards for my 65mm with either camera? It doesn't look like its a problem with the Tachihara, but I'm not sure about the Shen Hao.
Second, what are the differences in the way the backs operate. My calumet has a spring back where it lifts the glass and you slide the film holder into the slot, then release the spring and let the ground glass frame hold the film holder in place. Works for me. To rotate the back to vertical, I just twist the back and a circular section of the back moves to vertical. Also works for me.
It appears that the Shen Hao has a a slot that holds the ground glass. How do you switch this to portrait orientation? How does this work with the film holder? Do you slide out the ground glass and hold it? I've read that the Tachihara has a spring back. Is is the same as what I've got on the Calumet? I've read that it is easy to switch to portrait orientation.
What other factors should I consider? I know that the Shen Hao has additional rear movements. Trees and architecture are not my main subjects. Do I need to worry about this? There is a weight difference, and I've been trying to lighten my pack all year so the Tachihara is much more appealing from that standpoint.
Mel-
I am enjoying my Shen Hao. I don't have anything else to compare it to, in my experience, other than seeing other guy's cameras.
Give me a call and we can meet before or after work. You can get your hands on the Shen Hao, see if your lens boards will work, etc. Let me know if you don't still have my number.
Kalin
The Shen Hao uses Linhof boards. I don't think it will accept Calumet, but not sure. I have a 150mm and 90mm lens and have no need for a recessed lens board yet. I don't think you'll need one for your 65mm, but I haven't yet tried a lens this wide for my camera. I do know that Shen Hao sells a leather-like wide angle bellows for use with wider lenses.
I have a Fuji Quickload holder. It slides behind the ground glass (The glass is on a spring and holds the holder very tight) so there is no need to take the glass out and hold it. You can easily flip the back from portrait to horizontal orientation, there are a couple of black brackets that you have to loosen on the top of the camera which you may have seen from the model's photos that allow for the back to be taken off and switched. Not quite as easy as your Calumet, but not very hard to do on the Shen Hao either.
Shen Hao has a ton of movements, but I have not yet used most of them in landscape photos, but am looking forward to trying with trees or architecture. For the price the versatility of the movements can't be beat.
I know Kalin has a Shen Hao too, and I just saw he replied above. He could add some more information of what I don't know about it. Have fun in your LF search and let us know what you get.
Both Tachihara and Shen-Hao use the same Linhof style boards (so do Linhof, Ebony, Wista, and some other LF cameras). If your Calumet board is an old 6” x 6” board, it will not fit.
Both cameras have a standard spring back (similar to yours). The Shen-Hao also has a Graflok back, in case you ever need to attach a Roll-Film back or a Grafmatic film magazine. For both cameras (and this is true for most field cameras), in order to rotate the back, you need to physically remove the back. This is a quick process, but not as quick as your rotating back.
The Shen-Hao also has a slightly longer bellows extension (360mm vs. 330mm). Take a look at www.badgergraphic.com to see some of the specs for each model.
Either camera is a great choice, but if I had to chose, I think I would pick the Shen-Hao…and that is also because I think the camera looks really cool with the black hardware!
...and WELCOME to the LF world.
Adam
A Adams "The Camera" is a great book to have along with "The Negative" and "The Print" especially if you are into B&W. I hope you enjoy what ever cam you get!
John
One advantage of switching to Technika style lensboards is that a lot of different cameras accept them and many cameras have adapters for them. You can probably get a Technika lensboard adapter for your Calumet.
Both are excellent cameras. If weight is the major factor, go with the Tachihara. If you want more movements, go with the Shen. But, I've never come across a scene where I didn't have enought movement on the Tachihara.
I do like the black hardware of the Shen Hao, but I think the lighter weight of the Tachihara would be a much better fit for my needs. I will probably be buying new.
And Kalin, I'll definitely catch up with you though I'm a bit busy with work and home maintenance stuff right now and it might be a couple weeks. I'm not in a hurry for this purchase. I'd like to see the Shen Hao. Then I'll know what I'm missing with the Tachihara (and can return it if I like the Shen hao better).
Thanks everyone for the info.
Mel-
RichieV
Your Calumet looks like a beast!!!
I use a Tachihara and it works great for me. I've never used anything else though so I can't compare. My widest lens is a 75mm, and although I didn't need a recessed board for it, I got one (about 0.5 inch deep) and it does help give a little breathing room for movements. I would guess that you'd definitely want a recessed board for a 65mm.
Also, as a sidenote to Tony's comment, I have what appears to be a new model, but with silver hardware. It works fine... no focussing issues.
Thanks for your input. I was definitely interested in your experience.
Mel-
looks like you got plenty of help on the camera questions; I'm shooting with a Wista, so I wouldn't be of much help anyway. I just wanted to $ay, now that you're hooked, it'$ great to have another LF $hooter in the club!
I have both a Shen Hao and an Osaka. I prefer the Osaka (Tachihara is just like it). I find I don't use axis tilts that much and I don't use rear rise or shift. The Tachi/Osaka is lighter at 3.8 lbs versus near 5 for the SH. I'd use a recessed board on 75mm and shorter on both cameras (unless you get the bag bellows for the SH). You'll be bellows severely bellows cramped with both cameras, but you don't get much movement with a 65mm anyway. They both use Linhof style boards.
You may want to check out the Chamonix cameras, they appear to be getting rave reviews.