Posted by Nigel Blake on October 26, 2007 at 1:10 PM
Well yet again I look at the WPOY overall winning shot and it don't seem to me that its as good as many of the category winners or highly commended images. What do others think?
Edit, I should have added, My favourites are Anup Shah's Zebra crossing and David Tipling's Porpoising Penguin
Whilst I don't wnat to take anything away from Ben Osbourne for it is a excellent image, I would tend to agree with you in that the judges in recent years have tended to look for more artistic, not illustrative, qualities for the winning image. One wonders where the line is drawn about manipulation in said images.
FWIW,Breath Taking is my favourite, What is yours?
Posted by Craig Nash on October 26, 2007 at 4:25 PM
I would agree not wanting to diminish Ben Osbourne's achievment. I think the leopard seal and the penguin is an amazing shot and my favourite. I also would not be over comfortable with Mate Bence photos of sparrowhawk and the one of starlings in the set piece of his drinking pool. I just feel that the photos should be not set up to win these awards. I see it as little different than taking shots of birds at your feeders outside your living room window.
It is always difficult and I believe will always have a certain amount of contraversy involved... I find it very interesting that the winning image came from a new category, one that I should add came for quite a bit of stick as being the category for the mistakes....
This year the entry was some 32,000 images, the difficult task of judging is certainly getting more demanding, I can tell you that there are a lot of very fine images that didn't make it into the final judging round. This year I have to say that I am happier with the final choices than I have been for the last couple.
Please try to view the exhibition..... also send in your entries for 2008, Danny and Jack have shown what can be done particularly with a strong UK presence in the winning images...
Oh BTW my favourite, (Dave knows this) is Encounter by Anna Henly..
All the best
Phil
Posted by Andy Astbury on October 27, 2007 at 4:23 AM
Shem Compion's Meerkat Moment has big appeal to me as does Annas' arctic fox.
What I'd like to do is to hear the judges actually justify their decissions - purely out of interest
Dave Tiplings shot is wonderful, but the PoV doesn't sit too well with me and, for me, the Zebra shot hasn't quite come off - it looks more like a frame grab from video/film.
I can't help it but for me technical perfection should be a paramount consideration on the part of the judges - and it seems commonplace now that a lack of technical perfection becomes interpreted as 'high art'.
Posted by David Kjaer on October 27, 2007 at 5:07 AM
Hi Nigel
As Phillip said 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and agree with you that it would not have been my choice. That said congratulations to Ben, great to have a UK winner and a strong presence amongst the winners!
Difficult to make a decision at the size you see online but two 'wall hangers' for me were 'Snowy Owl stoop' & 'The Dark Hedges' both had dramatic lighting with wonderful subtle shades.
There was however one image that I suspect may have been 'set-up' but I will leave you all to decide.
I also thought the section Danny won 'Urban Wildlife' was strong and could never understand why in the past they have left this section out.
Overall the images still look impressive and I look forward to receiving the book.
David
Posted by Danny Green on October 27, 2007 at 6:05 AM
Hello Nigel
My own favourites are the Brown Bear that won the Animal Portriats that is such a wonderful image and the Guy really was in terrible danger as these Bears in Kamchatca are dangerous and will kill you, so that could of been his very last shot. I really liked the image of the Narwals in the Ice hole it is something I would have loved to see let alone photograph. I also really liked the Geyser irruption which was runner up in the landscape section again it looks fantastic in the display case. I really liked Dave Tiplings Black Grouse shot and thought that should of won the Birds section as it is so clever and different. Overall I think it has been a very strong year with some really stunning stuff on show. I would recommend going to the exhibition as the images really do look fantastic in the display cases.
Dave Tipling's image is a lovely one - a really well observed artistic interpretation of the subject.
Not sure I am comfortable with a heron's face in a glass tank set up beside a pond with the camera below it. From the limited text I'm assuming the fish was placed in the tank to lure the heron. The shark leaping to grab a rubber dummy makes me uneasy too.
Or am I missing something here with regard to the ethics involved? Anyone got any thoughts on this? Personally I'm not comfortable with either of these shots.
Posted by Mark Sisson on October 27, 2007 at 8:10 AM
Beauty certainly is in the eye of the beholder, and there's no doubt a trend towards artistic stylised shots as overall winners, driven no doubt by continuingly increasing standards and entry numbers meaning there's an increased desire to seek out something different. When working in the field though one has to constantly ask oneself why you're taking the pictures in the first place imo and maybe it's a bit like the advertising world where agencies make ads to win awards sometimes rather than sell their clients products or services.
All that said, there's no doubt some cracking images once again this year and good to see a few more UK photographers and locations coming through - where would we be without Africa and the polar regions after all?! Personal favourites are Porpoising Penguin, Snowy Owl Stoop, Breath Taking Narwhals and without wishing to seem at all sycophantic, Danny's water vole ain't bad either
Mark
Posted by Sean Bolton on October 27, 2007 at 8:58 AM
I think the overall standard of images in the competition is better than in recent years, and it is great to see so many UK names in amongst them.
I like the overall winning shot, it has an abstract, painted quality which has an artistic appeal and is different, which is the key aspect to this photograph.
I am not so keen on the setup shots. Bence Matte has some stunning shots, but all in very controlled (and probably baited) environments so that detracts a little. However the SparrowHawk image is just fantastic.
The underwater images always impress me, especially the Mackeral and Goliath images.
Bear Glare and Owl Glare are both visually stunning images.
Danny's vole shot is a deserved winner of the category.
I like the Creative Visions category, I like to see more artistic nature photos although the Lions Tail shot leaves me a bit baffled.
Once again the judges are keen on ice/snow, penguins, and snowy owls. If you could get all three in the same shot you would win the competition!
Overall a great competition, I look forward to a trip to the NHM to see the show in the flesh.
I think its a good year, and sure there will be debate about the winner but for me it is a very good choice. I don't understand the criticism of it on technical grounds as I think it is very well executed from a difficult and uncontrollable opportunity. The bear is a gob-smacker too, its not pin sharp on the nose so shouldn't win overall ;o) As usual there are one or two that mystify me a bit, but these aren't a big distraction.
I'm slightly uneasy about the fishing heron scenario too. I wouldn't set up something like this myself, would many of us here?
Is there an ethical difference between sticking a fish in a tub to get the heron fishing shot and chaining a goat to a stick to get a shot of a ' ' (insert your choice of: lion/tiger/wolf/leopard/bear etc) grabbing it in a dramatic way?
I'm slightly puzzled by this choice.
Also is it acceptable to 'lure' animals into wasting energy and possibly risking harm to get a photograph of them biting an inner tube?
Interested in others views on this.
Posted by Andy Astbury on October 27, 2007 at 11:35 AM
.....The shark leaping to grab a rubber dummy makes me uneasy too.
In possible defense of the shark photographer John, I know there are a couple of research boats working at Seal Island that tow various rubber dummies in order to understand what makes the GWS strike in terms of time, tow-speed and outline/shape; so I'd imagine the photographer is either one of these researchers or someone who's hitched a lift.
I'm sure I'm not the only person here who'd jump at the chance to photograph from one of these boats
I can see a massive ethical difference between the shark shot and the setup for the heron; allowing a heron to strike at a livebait and risking a concussion from hammering the glass tank base with its beak is a lot different from hoping a shark is going to briefly attack a dummy bait......afterall, people throw balls for dogs don't they, that's not much different.
If Mr.Casas had tried this shot in the UK some DEFRA sqaddie might well have a go at prosecuting him
Well that may be the case. But my feeling is that this should be stated in the (albeit brief) accompanying text.Competitions like this set a standard, and if they want to encourage other photogs then they should do so responsibly and make clear what ethical constraints were in place. Otherwise there's the danger people think its ok to do this kind of thing (outwith 'science'). If this is an example of a photog paying for the opportunity and supporting the science then ok, but lets know that.
I can see a massive ethical difference between the shark shot and the setup for the heron; allowing a heron to strike at a livebait and risking a concussion from hammering the glass tank base with its beak is a lot different from hoping a shark is going to briefly attack a dummy bait......afterall, people throw balls for dogs don't they, that's not much different.
Well I think it is different. The dog isnt doing this thinking its getting its dinner. It's playing, and gets fed whether it jumps or not. The shark is not playing, its hunting. And it just expended a massive amount of energy for nothing. Its just this type of ethical muddle that makes the whole thing a wee bit murky in my opinion.
I dont pretend to have any answers to any of this - just the observation that in a very high profile competition such as this there needs to be a wee bit more clarity about the circumstances, because as we all know (and has been commented on above) other photogs will emulate this.
Posted by David Kjaer on October 27, 2007 at 12:33 PM
Just to clarify my use of the word 'setup' I feel if the animal or bird has visited of it's own accord having been enticed - I am OK with that. I just felt in one case the subject matter had been placed in front of the camera, I hope I am wrong and that is why I don't want to name the image. I will say it wasn't taken in the UK!
David
Posted by Andy Astbury on October 27, 2007 at 12:42 PM
John, ostensibly you are absolutely right, all I'm saying is that the sharks are being teased up for reasons other than satisfying a WPOTY wannabe winners desire for a pic....possibly.
So I don't blame the photographer one iota for taking advantage of a situation which would exist whether he was present or not; if indeed he was aboard one of the research boats.
I seem to remember other topics that have touched on the ethics of luring/baiting and i don't think we ought to protract this any further.
In such a prestigious competion as the Shell, like you, I think the true spirit of wildlife photography should be adhered to - photograph wild animals in wild places doing what they do naturally.
Absolutely agree. This is a topic that will run and run.
And to add - there are enough cracking images in there anyway, and great that the UK is so well represented.
Cheers.
Posted by Peter Barritt on October 27, 2007 at 7:57 PM
one thing to say about Ben's image is that full size on a lightbox it has some superb patterns and lighting. I'm not sure a computer screen really does it justice. Ben's a great ambassador for nature photography. modest, talented, dedicated and ethical and always happy to lend free time to help local causes and conservation in our neck of the woods(Shropshire).
On the subject of lightboxes, Danny's portfolio at Wildphoto more than held it's own against the images of some of the best wildlife photographers in the world today.
Posted by Tim Davies on October 29, 2007 at 9:11 AM
Its been interesting reading through the posts on this thread and observing the different attitudes towards the styles of pohotgraphy displayed in the WPOY. I have long trawled these forums reading feedback on posts, and I would seem to me that the vast majority of photographers who post here are very much what I would describe as of the 'technical' predisposition. This continues in this thread in responses to WPOY photographs. By this I mean emphasis seems to be more on getting a technically brilliant shot, than getting one which may capture a more expressive, natural shot but be less textbook.
"the judges in recent years have tended to look for more artistic, not illustrative, qualities for the winning image. One wonders where the line is drawn about manipulation in said images"
I ask the question: "So what? Why shouldnt artistic photographs be truely exceptional or skilled, as long as they stay faithful to the wild nature of the subject?" (incidentally, I believe manipulation has its own place, but never in organic wildlife photography - leave it to the skill of the photography).
I'd like to think I strive to achieve artistic interpretations of the natural world, with as much photographic skill as I can. I appreciate a technically brilliant shot when I see one, but I think much more higly of a creatively brilliant one - even if the eyes arent in focus!
Favourite image? They are all fantastic, but probably Danny's vole (creative and technical!!)
I visited the exhibition this weekend - the standard of entries were absolutely amazing and it was very inspiring. However I was dissapointed that it cost over £14 for my wife and I to view the exhibition. It was packed so obviously people are willing to pay but for some reason I just think it is wrong to have to pay to see it - especially as it has such big sponsers. Am I the only one with this view? Tristan :-)
Discussion
21 repliesEdit, I should have added, My favourites are Anup Shah's Zebra crossing and David Tipling's Porpoising Penguin
Phil
FWIW,Breath Taking is my favourite, What is yours?
It is always difficult and I believe will always have a certain amount of contraversy involved... I find it very interesting that the winning image came from a new category, one that I should add came for quite a bit of stick as being the category for the mistakes....
This year the entry was some 32,000 images, the difficult task of judging is certainly getting more demanding, I can tell you that there are a lot of very fine images that didn't make it into the final judging round. This year I have to say that I am happier with the final choices than I have been for the last couple.
Please try to view the exhibition..... also send in your entries for 2008, Danny and Jack have shown what can be done particularly with a strong UK presence in the winning images...
Oh BTW my favourite, (Dave knows this) is Encounter by Anna Henly..
All the best
Phil
What I'd like to do is to hear the judges actually justify their decissions - purely out of interest
Dave Tiplings shot is wonderful, but the PoV doesn't sit too well with me and, for me, the Zebra shot hasn't quite come off - it looks more like a frame grab from video/film.
I can't help it but for me technical perfection should be a paramount consideration on the part of the judges - and it seems commonplace now that a lack of technical perfection becomes interpreted as 'high art'.
As Phillip said 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and agree with you that it would not have been my choice. That said congratulations to Ben, great to have a UK winner and a strong presence amongst the winners!
Difficult to make a decision at the size you see online but two 'wall hangers' for me were 'Snowy Owl stoop' & 'The Dark Hedges' both had dramatic lighting with wonderful subtle shades.
There was however one image that I suspect may have been 'set-up' but I will leave you all to decide.
I also thought the section Danny won 'Urban Wildlife' was strong and could never understand why in the past they have left this section out.
Overall the images still look impressive and I look forward to receiving the book.
David
My own favourites are the Brown Bear that won the Animal Portriats that is such a wonderful image and the Guy really was in terrible danger as these Bears in Kamchatca are dangerous and will kill you, so that could of been his very last shot. I really liked the image of the Narwals in the Ice hole it is something I would have loved to see let alone photograph. I also really liked the Geyser irruption which was runner up in the landscape section again it looks fantastic in the display case. I really liked Dave Tiplings Black Grouse shot and thought that should of won the Birds section as it is so clever and different. Overall I think it has been a very strong year with some really stunning stuff on show. I would recommend going to the exhibition as the images really do look fantastic in the display cases.
Danny
Not sure I am comfortable with a heron's face in a glass tank set up beside a pond with the camera below it. From the limited text I'm assuming the fish was placed in the tank to lure the heron. The shark leaping to grab a rubber dummy makes me uneasy too.
Or am I missing something here with regard to the ethics involved? Anyone got any thoughts on this? Personally I'm not comfortable with either of these shots.
All that said, there's no doubt some cracking images once again this year and good to see a few more UK photographers and locations coming through - where would we be without Africa and the polar regions after all?! Personal favourites are Porpoising Penguin, Snowy Owl Stoop, Breath Taking Narwhals and without wishing to seem at all sycophantic, Danny's water vole ain't bad either
Mark
I like the overall winning shot, it has an abstract, painted quality which has an artistic appeal and is different, which is the key aspect to this photograph.
I am not so keen on the setup shots. Bence Matte has some stunning shots, but all in very controlled (and probably baited) environments so that detracts a little. However the SparrowHawk image is just fantastic.
The underwater images always impress me, especially the Mackeral and Goliath images.
Bear Glare and Owl Glare are both visually stunning images.
Danny's vole shot is a deserved winner of the category.
I like the Creative Visions category, I like to see more artistic nature photos although the Lions Tail shot leaves me a bit baffled.
Once again the judges are keen on ice/snow, penguins, and snowy owls. If you could get all three in the same shot you would win the competition!
Overall a great competition, I look forward to a trip to the NHM to see the show in the flesh.
cheers
Sean
I'm slightly uneasy about the fishing heron scenario too. I wouldn't set up something like this myself, would many of us here?
Andrew
I'm slightly puzzled by this choice.
Also is it acceptable to 'lure' animals into wasting energy and possibly risking harm to get a photograph of them biting an inner tube?
Interested in others views on this.
In possible defense of the shark photographer John, I know there are a couple of research boats working at Seal Island that tow various rubber dummies in order to understand what makes the GWS strike in terms of time, tow-speed and outline/shape; so I'd imagine the photographer is either one of these researchers or someone who's hitched a lift.
I'm sure I'm not the only person here who'd jump at the chance to photograph from one of these boats
I can see a massive ethical difference between the shark shot and the setup for the heron; allowing a heron to strike at a livebait and risking a concussion from hammering the glass tank base with its beak is a lot different from hoping a shark is going to briefly attack a dummy bait......afterall, people throw balls for dogs don't they, that's not much different.
If Mr.Casas had tried this shot in the UK some DEFRA sqaddie might well have a go at prosecuting him
Well I think it is different. The dog isnt doing this thinking its getting its dinner. It's playing, and gets fed whether it jumps or not. The shark is not playing, its hunting. And it just expended a massive amount of energy for nothing. Its just this type of ethical muddle that makes the whole thing a wee bit murky in my opinion.
I dont pretend to have any answers to any of this - just the observation that in a very high profile competition such as this there needs to be a wee bit more clarity about the circumstances, because as we all know (and has been commented on above) other photogs will emulate this.
David
So I don't blame the photographer one iota for taking advantage of a situation which would exist whether he was present or not; if indeed he was aboard one of the research boats.
I seem to remember other topics that have touched on the ethics of luring/baiting and i don't think we ought to protract this any further.
In such a prestigious competion as the Shell, like you, I think the true spirit of wildlife photography should be adhered to - photograph wild animals in wild places doing what they do naturally.
And to add - there are enough cracking images in there anyway, and great that the UK is so well represented.
Cheers.
On the subject of lightboxes, Danny's portfolio at Wildphoto more than held it's own against the images of some of the best wildlife photographers in the world today.
"the judges in recent years have tended to look for more artistic, not illustrative, qualities for the winning image. One wonders where the line is drawn about manipulation in said images"
I ask the question: "So what? Why shouldnt artistic photographs be truely exceptional or skilled, as long as they stay faithful to the wild nature of the subject?" (incidentally, I believe manipulation has its own place, but never in organic wildlife photography - leave it to the skill of the photography).
I'd like to think I strive to achieve artistic interpretations of the natural world, with as much photographic skill as I can. I appreciate a technically brilliant shot when I see one, but I think much more higly of a creatively brilliant one - even if the eyes arent in focus!
Favourite image? They are all fantastic, but probably Danny's vole (creative and technical!!)