Hi Philip,
Good to see a landscape (or rather seascape) from you.
Composition works for me and looks like quite a dramatic and moody scene with those turbulent waters.
Posted by David Clapp on November 11, 2007 at 2:46 PM
Bold, with good clouds but some problems here. I am going to be fairly full on so please dont hit me.
Firstly I dont know whether you have tried to make this look like a newspaper print or whether it is the processing, but something has gone radically wrong. The contrast has made all the blacks extremely black, there is literally no detail in the sand groin at all.
Have you induced lots of film grain effect? If it was induced then fair play, but it is so brutal it is breaking up the image detail.
Compostitionally the image works well but a slightly lower angle would have brought more of the groin into play, it feels a little cut off, perhaps a few steps back would have included more of this and get the image proportions balanced.
If you could explain what sort of effect and processing you used I can certainly help you out with some more assistance if you want it?
Posted by Andy Astbury on November 11, 2007 at 3:41 PM
Very moody Phillip - I gotta say I like it, back in the '70s I was so into pushing HP5 at 1600 I used to get grain like golf balls
Perhaps a bit more tonal range in the blacks would be good
Hi Andy unfortunately the sea break's were almost completely black even on the colour image I could try to lighten them a little, in Bibble pro you have a choice of four black and white films to emulate with different development times and temperatures I have obviously picked the one with the biggest grain possible and then added a little extra grain in photoshop it looks much better as a 19 inch print than a little 720 pixel image posted I do really prefer a really grainy moody black and white images.
Hi David thank you for your offer but the excessive grain and limited tone value was intentional I much preferre the very moody and large grained black and white images to the very smooth tonal graduated black and white images.
Phillip.
Posted by David Clapp on November 12, 2007 at 6:13 AM
Fair play Phillip, I had nothing other than good intentions.
Posted by Alan Woolnough on November 12, 2007 at 10:22 AM
Must admit Phillip, i had a similar feeling to David, when i first viewed this shot.
I guess ive become so used to fighting grain {and now noise}, that its easy to forget that it can also be used deliberately for a specific effect!!
Having now looked at this with my 1970's 'eye', it does seem to suit this scene {due to the choppy sea and well defined clouds}.
Had the sea been calm, and the overall image scerene, i don't think the grainy treatment would have worked.
Ive always felt that this type of grainy/gritty/noisy effect was best suited to industrial landscapes etc, but i think you have shown that it can also work on other subjects
That is some grain - it really does look like HP5 pushed a couple of stops. Having read a bit more I see that is what you intended so you've most certainly met your goal there. I think it would be nice to have a tad more detail in the blacks and the contrast eased a little in places. I used to be a total grain junkie and loved this type of effect to create moody landscapes - I just wasn't very good at it. With digital I think grain is very hard to reproduce so I'd be tempted to just get out the old film camera and use fast film. Its a shame that you just cannot get the full effect from an image this size - would be good to see it big to get the effect as it is meant to be seen. Tristan
Posted by Marko Trebušak on November 13, 2007 at 1:48 AM
I'm still learning this grain thing. It looks like I wasn't drinking enough Rodinal in my photographic youth to appreciate completely this kind of effect. Went to LF to smooth out grain and will have to think again. But I do agree with Tristan: it would be better to use "real stuff" for this kind of effect.
Discussion
9 repliesPhillip.
D200 18/70 nikkor@18mm HH.
PP in Bibble pro & CS2.
Good to see a landscape (or rather seascape) from you.
Composition works for me and looks like quite a dramatic and moody scene with those turbulent waters.
Firstly I dont know whether you have tried to make this look like a newspaper print or whether it is the processing, but something has gone radically wrong. The contrast has made all the blacks extremely black, there is literally no detail in the sand groin at all.
Have you induced lots of film grain effect? If it was induced then fair play, but it is so brutal it is breaking up the image detail.
Compostitionally the image works well but a slightly lower angle would have brought more of the groin into play, it feels a little cut off, perhaps a few steps back would have included more of this and get the image proportions balanced.
If you could explain what sort of effect and processing you used I can certainly help you out with some more assistance if you want it?
Perhaps a bit more tonal range in the blacks would be good
Phillip.
Phillip.
I guess ive become so used to fighting grain {and now noise}, that its easy to forget that it can also be used deliberately for a specific effect!!
Having now looked at this with my 1970's 'eye', it does seem to suit this scene {due to the choppy sea and well defined clouds}.
Had the sea been calm, and the overall image scerene, i don't think the grainy treatment would have worked.
Ive always felt that this type of grainy/gritty/noisy effect was best suited to industrial landscapes etc, but i think you have shown that it can also work on other subjects
Alan
Cheers,
Marko