Maybe a dumb question ?

but here I go...

I've been trying to photograph wildlife (mostly birds) for about 8 months or so now, I try to get out once a week, mainly on a Saturday, trying to juggle family life, work and my other passion which is mountainbiking, I'm fortunate that my wife is very willing to come visiting nature reserves andsimilar places and is happy to use a camera herself sometimes.

I'm very fortunate that I am able to afford good equipment and really have no valid excuses for my poor success rate, I reckon I get one decent shot every 2 visits (and each visit usually generates about 200 images ! thank god for digital).

But then being a lurker on here and checking most days I'm astonished at the quality, but even more astonished at the sheer volume of very good work people are putting out, how on earth do you all do it ?, are you full timers ?, presumabley years of experience ? (I'm guessing that field craft has a huge effect on succes rate ?) and is there anywhere I can learn this stuff from ?, I see that there's loads of workshops advertised in the various photography magazines (and bird watching mags).

Can anyone shed some light on this for me please ?, I know from when I worked as a landscape photographer that it isnt easy and will take years to become proficient !

any help gratefully recieved

Hi Steve,

I can't really comment on how many are full timers there are on the site, I know of one or two, some mix wildlife with another form of photography for example commercial or weddings.

When I started 3 years ago aged 16, I studied many other peoples work in the form of magazines, websites etc. and found once I had a clear idea of what the average 'decent pic' looked like, I could sort of work toward it in my own way and am finding that I am more comfortable in a given situation.

I reckon you have done the best thing joining here though, as the advice and critique is really useful.
Chris.

Tim, I should have said, I bought the Sigma 300-800 after getting frustrated with a 170-500, as I said I was very lucky to come into unexpected money over the summer and decided that I was enjoying this so much that I spent it on this lens rather than a new mountainbike.

I'm getting at the birds just fine with this but there's maybe one shot in ten thats sharp and inevitabley that sharp one is poor compositionally, I think I could probably crop and post process t help but I want to get the basics right to start with :-)

oh, thats strange, I was replying to a reply from Tim Munsey, it appears to have gone ??

anyhow, thanks for the tips Chris, much appreciated

The only way to take a picture( good or bad) is to be out there! The more you are out, the more pictures you will take,and the more chance you have to take a good one!
I think that is why pro wildlife photographer take good pictures, they are out more then amateur photographer who have a "real" job to do (I know I know, I will get some stick for this) ......at the end of the day it is a question of TIME!
Frederic

Spot on Frederic!

Andy

Sorry Steve, I remembered you had a 300-800mm and so realised it was a stupid question

Tim

I have to agree with Frederic-being able to be out everyday or when you want gives you the edge-If you can only shoot 1 day a week then the chances of getting all the elements right are very low

Hi Steve, I'm like you in that I get very limited oppotunities to actually get out there due to work and a very young family, so although I've been at this bird lark for about 3 years, I've probably had about as much pratcice as a lot of people will cram into a month or so. This can be really frustrating, but I travel locally, any long distance travelled is shooting time, so i limit my distance to a 30min drive. I also used to walk around a lot and it's really hard to nail subjects doing this. You need to sit and wait for things IMO. It's amazing what comes out when you just sit.

Also, I use a tripod constantly and at the focal lengths you need with birds, it's very hard to get a really sharp image handholding, unless you have extremely good technique, which only a few people actually have IMO.

There are long lens techniques which you can google for (there might be something on somewhere) and this will help. You don't list your usual shooting kit so it's quite hard to say what would improve your success rate. Processing is also a big issue. What someone who's experienced in post processing can do to an image is quite amazing, yet it has it's limits and like you say, the great images have been 'got right' in camera.

Post some of your images here and everyone will help. The more info you give, the more you'll get back. It's the way I've been progressing over the last couple of years and the folk on here are extremely knowledgeable...even Andy Astbury

Good question Steve. For starters getting a good pic every couple of trips sounds pretty good to me, though it depends what you want to photograph.

I'm no expert but I have learnt a few things. I can go out loads of times and come back with nothing worthwhile but Frederic is right time in the field is the key. When conditions are unsuitable and are not going to produce anything good - then it is an excellent time for learning technique - using low speeds, learning how to get sharp shots in awful conditions. So that technique becomes automatic - then when something good does come along you don't muck it up - as I have many times. Next the more you are out the more you can learn the habits and behaviour of your local wildlife. Time in the field is always useful.

I would say most of my best pics I have taken within 3 miles of home. Spring and summer I always have my camera and 400mm (and a x2) with me - anytime to and from work I am ready. Its all a question of maximising opportunities.

Hope this of some use - interested to hear what others have to say.

I have been doing this for about two years and work from 2.30am-9.30am each day so am able to take advantage of good light.When it rains I sleep. I would start going to places where you know birds are going to be. If you have a garden set up different feeders and make a hide or use your house as a hide.

Agree with long lens technique and you have one of the longest with no image stabilisation, so tripod and visit www.pbase.com/liquidstone a Phillipino Bird Photographer who in my opinion is one of the best with your lens.

Go to my blog www.peregrinesbirdblog.blogspot.com I have links to over 400 bird photographers websites worldwide many have articles on lens technique.

Many photographers make their images more special with post processing. ie Cropping Exposure, saturation.

Not possible in winter so much but take your camera everywhere you never know when the opportunity might arise. I would say half my photos are planned and the other half are chance.

Hi Steve

I sympathise - the quality of some of the work here is fantastic, but remember, everyone had to start somewhere, and then build to get that good. We're all just at different points on the process (I consider myself to be near the beginning), and some have the talent to take their images to another level, and help point us all in the right direction. Anyway, as I see it, there are four important components to being a good wildlife photographer.

1. Kit - you will never consistently produce good work without the right lenses, tripods, computer, computer programs etc. Decent camera bodies help, but with the 300-800 you aren't lacking in terms of glass.

2. Opportunity - as a novice, it seems to me that there are places that people visit at certain times of year to maximise chances of good shots. For example recently, we've had runs of Gigrin (kites), Richmond (red deer rut), Donna Nook (now; seals), Slimbridge (coming soon; waterfowl) and so on. At the same time, people make their own opportunities. Back garden feeders are a huge resource, and at the same time, you can still be around for family obligations. Holidays - a couple of days slotted in to a family holiday in the right part of the UK, Spain or Florida or where ever is a great chance to see different species.

3. Natural history. It's got to help knowing your species. Having a feel for behaviour, 'flightiness', distributions and so on will really help you get the shot that's different.

4. Planning, patience and experience. Like others have said, wandering around hoping for a chance shot works, but only rarely. It's better to maximise your chances by aiming for a specific type of shot. Choose perches carefully, try to gain your species eye view and so on.

Anyway, I consider myself to be a beginner, but it's all relative. I'm a pretty decent natural historian and I know my way around a camera. Getting used to the relatively specialised knowledge required for processing high ISO images, or flash for macro work, or long lens technique just takes a bit of time.

I'd also recommend that you buy the most important bit of kit to help you improve these - a notebook! Jot down plans, ideas, and things you come across as otherwise there's just too much information to manage effectively. You should also post your work and ask for advice - this place is an amazing resource.

Finally, just enjoy it!



Mark

It's a good question Steve. My photography is primarily crammed into holidays as I work 50+ hours a week and have family/grandad duties etc. If you are passionate about nature and photography then you are bound to progress. Coming from landscape can be a big boon as it helps with composition and lighting and wildlife can often feature as part of the landscape. Almost everything I've learnt about wildlife photography, which isn't much, has come from UKNP. A good way to make rapid progress is to go on a wildlife photography trip. Guy Edwardes, for example, is a great teacher and inspirational photographer in my opinion.
A lot of the members here are at the top of their game, world class IMHO. Spending a few hours with them on a UKNP outing can be really helpful.
You also need to do some thinking about what you are trying to achieve. What is your style about and what are your aims?
Personally taking hundreds of photos per day doesn't suit me. It commits you to endless hours on the computer sorting through dross.
Enjoy the fresh air and try and capture some of the beauty. All the best Peter

Hi Steve - I think virtually everyone on this board, with the possible exception of some of the dedicated landscapers, would echo your sentiment THANK GOD FOR DIGITAL - I for one would be bankrupt in a week if I was still on film

I've been taking images of one sort or another since 1977 and in all that time there's a couple of things I've learned - no photographer is perfect (with the possible exception of Danny Green ), and you NEVER stop learning

Now I have to say this to you Steve - you've gone and spent your money on a piece of glass that is superb in performance and possibly THE WORST LENS on the planet to begin upping your game with.
I have one which is virtually welded to my D2Xs now and gets used as near as damn it every day weather permitting.
It is without doubt the most hostile and un-user friendly lens in mass production, and the last lens I would have advised you to buy - obviously it's very heavy, and any 800mm lens has tissue-paper thin DoF; but it's balance is horribly front heavy and the lack of a focus limiter and some form of image stabilization make picture taking real hard work when trying to use the AF - and I think my long lens technique is as good as it gets.

I'd imagine this is 'stuff' you don't want to hear - but you must realise that using the 300-800 Sig is a bit like learning to drive in an F1 racing car instead of a Nissan Micra - get it right and the results are spectacular, get it wrong and you are left for dead at the side of the road with a flash card full of crap.
The Sig 500 prime and the 70-300 that Edwin uses to such great effect would have been a lot wiser buys - at least that would have been my advice to you.

But you've got the beast now so I'm sure we can get you where you want to be

Field craft is a big plus for a photographer who choses to do what we do - and knowlege of your subject helps you to be in the right place at the right time - but the main thing is for you to be confident in your gear AND in your ability to use it to its best advantage.

So to start, I for one would like to know what body you are using, what other lenses you've got and what you are currently using for support.
Post some pictures for us to see (at the right size this time Steve ) and if you've got enough money ring Sigma and buy the 800mm prime lens hood and dump the stupid one that comes with the lens - Phillip Tompkinson gave me that hot tip a while back for which I'm eternally grateful - it really helps with the flaring on bright days.

There's no such thing as a daft question Steve, except the question you never ask

Steve,

I’m no expert but this is what I did/still do. I sacked the days out to reserves and started in the back garden with some feeders. That way you can spend ALL your time making pictures rather than wandering round looking for or waiting for something to shoot. (Maximise that free time!!!) Think about the shots you’re getting at the feeders and how you can improve them (best resource is reading what the guys on here write in their critiques) It’s simple stuff like clean backgrounds, correct depth of field and shutter speeds that make a huge difference. It’s an easy way to get some good images under your belt which is great for building confidence.

Get to know your camera body inside out. I’m still working on this myself. I was fine with my 10D but when I got my 1D2N I didn’t touch it for a month because I found it so daunting! But my God this is time well spent. If you can do things like changing depth of field or focus points without taking your eye from the viewfinder you’ll be able to react to what unfolds in front of you without having to take your eye off it.

Fieldcraft. Vital, and one of the greatest joys of this pastime. Learn about your subject. Watching individual species even for half an hour will reveal that they are all creatures of habit. A duck will almost always stand up and wing stretch after it’s been bathing so if that’s the shot you want you know what to look for. A singing wren will always go back to a singing post but it has several around its territory. If you set up on one of them you will eventually get that shot but you’ve got to spend time identifying them in the first place. I often go out without my camera just to watch and learn (which is usually when the best opportunities present themselves!!)

Don’t try to photograph everything! I suffer from this badly! It’s much better to concentrate on one thing at a time. When I started I would be photographing say a Redshank but then be distracted by a Heron. I’d swing the camera to the Heron and the Redshank would then start standing on its head or break dancing (: !! Of course by the time I’d got back to the Redshank it had stopped and put its head under its wing! If you’ve got a good subject in a good place stick with it because eventually it will do something brilliant and you’ll start getting shots that you’re really chuffed with.

Finally don’t measure your results against what you see on here because that’s the road to ruin! Many of these chaps have been around for years and they are at the top of their game. We beginners need to concentrate on improving by using the work, advice and goodwill here as an inspirational learning opportunity not something to beat ourselves up with!

All best,
Dave

Excellent anwsers everyone, I'll take some time this evening to read fully and absorb them all, many thanks.

Some brief answers to some of the questions above, I'm using a D2xs body and Sigma 120 -300 and 300-800 now but started with a D200 and a 170 - 500, moved on to a Sigma 50 - 500 witha 1.4 convertor, always using a bean bag for support in hides or a Manfrotto 55 in the field.

My post processing skills are zero, I have Apples Aperture installed in my Mac but so far havent got round to using it, still using Micro soft Picture Editor on an older windows based machine (plan is to learn the Aperture software over the forthcoming dark winter nights)

My photography background is that I started with a Zenith in the late 70's, got really into landscape/fine art in the 80's, ended up using a Gandolfi 10x8 camera and make palladium contact prints and having exhibitions, got really fed up with gallery owners and publishers and kind of dropped out of the scenn around 91/92.

Bought a Nikon D70 in 2004 and havent loked back since, I've had a lot of work published in mountainbike magazines but wanted to do something different and as I'd always had an interest in birds decided to pursue this, never for one moment did I think I'd be bitten by this particular bug !

Nowadays my mountainbiking time is giving way to time spent watching and photographing birds :-)

Okay, big thank you everyone who answered, I've read and absorbed all that info, plan is too keep on going to reserves, thats a big part of it for me (an antitdote to a stressfull job and the polar opposite of my other passion mountanbiking, plus I can spend time with my wife).

I dont have any facility for feeders at home so thats out of the window (pardon the pun!!)

But, there will be changes based upon the advice above, I'll try and concentrate on one or two species over the forthcoming winter (am thinking Kingfishers and Godwits as I know I can pretty much guarentee seeing these at my local reserves (which are Mere Sands, Martin Mere, Marshside, Leighton Moss).

Post processing skills were always in the plan for this coming winter and I'll be looking out for workshops around field craft/photography rather than those aimed at getting you near to exotic birds !

and most important of all posting results on here for critiques