Posted by Jack Garrett on November 20, 2007 at 1:33 PM
I've been to a number of websites from this forum and the pictures all seem sharp and have great color. I'm new at this and I'm building my own website. I read somewhere that you need to add more contrast and saturation before posting a picture to your site. With that in mind, do I need to make multiple sets of images in photoshop..I.E. one for printing, one for web, etc? Any help would be appreciated
Posted by Rene Pirolt on November 20, 2007 at 1:49 PM
John
Usually you have one original image (from a raw conversion or a scan) which you use as a master file. Using this master file, you can modify, resize (up or down), sharpen, and save as a separate file for use as print or web image. I my case I have one file for each size of print (8x10, 11x14, 16x20,etc), one for showing on my website, one for a thumbnail on my website, of course a master file from which they were generated, as well as other files for other purposes.
So yes, most of us use multiple files of the same image for different purposes. However, they all originate from the master file.
Hope this helps.
Posted by Jack Garrett on November 20, 2007 at 2:16 PM
Thanks, Rene. I haven't been saving all the file sizes and can see the need for that. Here is a link to my website...I only have 3 images on it and they all look flat. I haven't figured out how to make the enlargements when you click on the thumbnails. Any suggestions on how to boost the colors?
Posted by Mel Ladewig on November 20, 2007 at 3:04 PM
I'm with Rene. I do things the same way.
I don't see the link to your site.
One reason images may look flat is if they are saved in the Adobe or Pro Photo RGB working space. You need to display images for the web in sRGB. You can use the Save for Web feature to get to this.
Mel-
Posted by Jack Garrett on November 20, 2007 at 3:11 PM
ooops...forgot to give you the link...don't laugh, it's a work in progress but always would welcome constructive comments!
John
www.lightofnaturephotography.com
Posted by Rene Pirolt on November 20, 2007 at 3:35 PM
John,
The files on your website don’t look flat at all. They look quite nice on my screen.
However, make sure that when you save your file as a JPG in Photoshop, you embed the sRGB profile (Image > Mode > Convert to profile… > Select sRGB IECxxxx and make sure ICC profile is checked when you save). This may remedy the flatness if you see a difference between the files on your local computer vs. what you see on your website.
As for creating large views of these files, there are various ways to do this. On my website I simply use a thumbnail (which is just a very small image), and make this a link to another page, which contains the larger version of the image. Again, both the thumbnail and the larger image are two separate files. Take a look at my website and this may become clearer.
There are of course much fancier ways to display a thumbnail and a larger image, but I do IT work all day, and have no patience to do this in my free time.
Let us know if you need more info.
Posted by Les Barstow on November 20, 2007 at 4:36 PM
John,
Often the cause of "flatness" in an image is a failure to convert from your working color space into sRGB before saving. If you explicitly convert to sRGB before saving files for Web, you'll be sure you've got the right output. I do not recommend embedding the ICC profile; most systems ignore ICC profiles in Web images and they take up space - you wind up with an image that looks good on your color-managed application, but looks "flat" in the unmanaged PC world.
I also recommend always using the "Save for Web and Devices" option in Photoshop instead of just saving to JPEG using the standard Save dialog. Hope this helps.
Posted by Jack Garrett on November 20, 2007 at 4:39 PM
Thanks Rene. I'll try those steps in photoshop. And I'll try the thing about saving images as separate pages on the site as well....sounds like you have to save a lot of photos for each image with size, thumbnails, blowups, etc. Thank you also Mel...John
Posted by Mel Ladewig on November 20, 2007 at 5:03 PM
I do my website a little differently than Rene. I do not directly manage my thumbnail -> full size links. Its a bit of a work in progress, but it is there. I use Gallery2 to manage my gallery. The gallery is not linked to my main page right now, so you'll have to use this link. http://www.ladewigs.com/Gallery/main.php
I'm using a PostNuke portal on the front end, but have not had time to configure it yet. I will configure it to lead from the front end where I plan to publish trip reports to the gallery when I have time. This is also my personal site. I intend to create a second professional site when I have the technical aspects of these tools figured out.
Posted by Grant Collier on November 20, 2007 at 6:40 PM
One reason your images might look flat is because you have a crazy monitor like mine whose color space isn't sRGB. BUT as long as you're converting your images beforehand to sRGB, you can trust that what you see in Photoshop closely matches what *most* people see in their browsers. So, as hard as it is, just ignore what you see in your browser (which isn't color managed) if it doesn't match what you see in Photoshop (which is color managed).
Another thing to consider is sharpening the images for the web. A lot of people use the "Adamus Sharpening Technique" at: http://pacificnw.naturephotographers.net/tips/photoshop.htm. However, instead of just going Filter > Sharpen 2 or 3 times, I like the results a little more when doing just one really strong sharpening using Unsharp Mask before reducing it down to the final size. And I've just discovered that I like the results best when not using the Adamus Technique at all and just resizing to the final size and using PhotoKit Sharpener's Super Fine Edge Sharpen - though Photokit Sharpener costs around $100. (of course, most of my images on the web are old and prepared using none of these techiques).
Posted by Kalin Wilson on November 21, 2007 at 10:44 AM
I agree with Grant and what's been mentioned already. Sharpening for the web at the output size makes a big difference. I have been playing with the Adamus technique and PKS lately and generally like the PKS results better, plus it's a LOT simpler. PK sharpener and color kit 2 are one of the best photo tool investments I've made - I use them on every image and they save me a lot of time.
The output sharpening of PKS is easy enough that I don't generally keep multiple copies of a file for different sizes. I keep a master file with layer groups for soft-proofing adjustments for different outputs (papers, sRGB-web, etc). When I need a print or web image, I load the master file, duplicate it (to protect the original), flatten and resize the dup, sharpen for the output method, and I'm done.
Right now I'm also using gallery2 like Mel and I'm planning on a Joomla front end but at some time in the future I want to roll my own site. But like Rene, I program all day and have a hard time getting in the mood for it at home.
Discussion
10 repliesUsually you have one original image (from a raw conversion or a scan) which you use as a master file. Using this master file, you can modify, resize (up or down), sharpen, and save as a separate file for use as print or web image. I my case I have one file for each size of print (8x10, 11x14, 16x20,etc), one for showing on my website, one for a thumbnail on my website, of course a master file from which they were generated, as well as other files for other purposes.
So yes, most of us use multiple files of the same image for different purposes. However, they all originate from the master file.
Hope this helps.
I don't see the link to your site.
One reason images may look flat is if they are saved in the Adobe or Pro Photo RGB working space. You need to display images for the web in sRGB. You can use the Save for Web feature to get to this.
Mel-
John
www.lightofnaturephotography.com
The files on your website don’t look flat at all. They look quite nice on my screen.
However, make sure that when you save your file as a JPG in Photoshop, you embed the sRGB profile (Image > Mode > Convert to profile… > Select sRGB IECxxxx and make sure ICC profile is checked when you save). This may remedy the flatness if you see a difference between the files on your local computer vs. what you see on your website.
As for creating large views of these files, there are various ways to do this. On my website I simply use a thumbnail (which is just a very small image), and make this a link to another page, which contains the larger version of the image. Again, both the thumbnail and the larger image are two separate files. Take a look at my website and this may become clearer.
There are of course much fancier ways to display a thumbnail and a larger image, but I do IT work all day, and have no patience to do this in my free time.
Let us know if you need more info.
Often the cause of "flatness" in an image is a failure to convert from your working color space into sRGB before saving. If you explicitly convert to sRGB before saving files for Web, you'll be sure you've got the right output. I do not recommend embedding the ICC profile; most systems ignore ICC profiles in Web images and they take up space - you wind up with an image that looks good on your color-managed application, but looks "flat" in the unmanaged PC world.
I also recommend always using the "Save for Web and Devices" option in Photoshop instead of just saving to JPEG using the standard Save dialog. Hope this helps.
I'm using a PostNuke portal on the front end, but have not had time to configure it yet. I will configure it to lead from the front end where I plan to publish trip reports to the gallery when I have time. This is also my personal site. I intend to create a second professional site when I have the technical aspects of these tools figured out.
Another thing to consider is sharpening the images for the web. A lot of people use the "Adamus Sharpening Technique" at: http://pacificnw.naturephotographers.net/tips/photoshop.htm. However, instead of just going Filter > Sharpen 2 or 3 times, I like the results a little more when doing just one really strong sharpening using Unsharp Mask before reducing it down to the final size. And I've just discovered that I like the results best when not using the Adamus Technique at all and just resizing to the final size and using PhotoKit Sharpener's Super Fine Edge Sharpen - though Photokit Sharpener costs around $100. (of course, most of my images on the web are old and prepared using none of these techiques).
The output sharpening of PKS is easy enough that I don't generally keep multiple copies of a file for different sizes. I keep a master file with layer groups for soft-proofing adjustments for different outputs (papers, sRGB-web, etc). When I need a print or web image, I load the master file, duplicate it (to protect the original), flatten and resize the dup, sharpen for the output method, and I'm done.
Right now I'm also using gallery2 like Mel and I'm planning on a Joomla front end but at some time in the future I want to roll my own site. But like Rene, I program all day and have a hard time getting in the mood for it at home.
Good luck with the site!