Posted by Jim Sabiston on November 30, 2007 at 12:55 PM
They say timing is everything in life. Well, I need some better timing.
I've been taking 'serious' photos for about 3 years now and decided to make the jump to SLR just a year ago(Canon 5D), along with associated lenses and software. My wife is a teacher's aid and we were able to qualify for the educational discount on CS2. I'm teaching myself all of this as I go along (and having much fun learning!). Here is my problem/question:
Adobe switched to CS3 about 3 months after I bought CS2. I checked on the upgrade and learned that Adobe charges nearly full price to upgrade!!
Of course, all the current drivers/raw/converter upgrades stop being backwards compatible at the same time!! Nice way to treat your customers!
Just to mix it up a bit, my old computer is showing signs of giving up the good fight and I just purchased an HP Tablet (nice and portable!)with Vista. I'm reloading all my software to the new machine without too many major bumps, but the CS2 raw/dng converter will not work. I've got the new drivers from Adobe and will try them tonite. I also bought a Canon G9 as my 'carry everywhere' camera and the G9 Raw files are not compatible with CS2 (see above).
I've worked around the G9 Raw/CS2 issue by converting the G9 photos to DNG with the stand alone raw/dng converter. It works, but adds several steps (and organizing headaches) to the workflow. But, it does get the job done on the old computer - and hopefully will once I get past the Vista OS.
Here is my main question: Can Adobe Elements handle raw files (does it use Camera Raw?)from the 5D and G9? If so, what am I giving up by 'downgrading' from CS2? At this stage of the game, by photo processing is pretty minimal. I primarily tweak exposure/contrast etc. in Camera Raw and sometimes fiddle with curves a bit in the TIFF file. I've recently found I can make some tweaks using layers that will turn a good photo into a really good photo and will be exploring this more in the future.
Comments, thoughts and suggestions are all welcome.
Oh, and thanks for this great site and forum. The input from the members here is invaluable!
Posted by Mel Ladewig on November 30, 2007 at 3:08 PM
I'm using Elements 3 and I have done the trial versions of both CS2 and CS3.
Here is a short list of what you are giving up:
16bit support for many functions like layers and cloning.
Full functionality of curves
Layer masking (it can be done though some loopholes but adds steps)
Actions - even if you are not using these now, they can be a big time saver
Batch Processing - goes along with losing actions
Elements does have ACR built in, but you get fewer controls Elements 6 is supposed to be stable on Vista and is linked to the current ACR versions from Adobe (you may have to download an update for the G9)
Here is what you gain in Elements
A simplified but still powerful editor - I actually think the Elements Editor is a cleaner layout than CS2 or 3.
A nice database based organizer akin to Lightroom's library. I have a catalog (database) running on 95GB of images without any performance issues. The library allows many useful features including versioning, stacking, collections, tags and date based organization.
That said, I do not think I would backstep from CS2 to Elements 6. I plan to upgrade to CS3 and Lightroom in the near future.
Software becomes obsolete either because of hardware changes or other software changes. The best solution would be to upgrade to CS3. You might look at http://www.academicsuperstore.com/ to see if there is a better price for the academic version of CS3 for you.
Posted by Paul DeCesare on December 1, 2007 at 1:47 AM
I agree with Mel. I have CS2 after using PE 3.0 two years ago, and PE is stripped down. It would work fine if you just has a P&S, but there are things in CS2/3 that aid the pro, especially now that you have a 5D (I just got mine 2 weeks ago!).
Having said that, you could survive with PE, but why step back? You have limited 16-bit support in PE and no HDR. However, I imagine PE 6 has some better features than the 3.0 and 4.0 versions I'm used to. BUT, CS3 has some VERY nice features, such as improved B&W processing, SHARPENING AS A LAYER (best reason to upgrade), and a limited way to handle JPEGs as a RAW file. Plus the Bridge is quite helpful. But most of all, your RAW files will be supported now and in the future.
I run CS2 right now on Vista, and the single most important tip I can offer (besides 4GB RAM) is to run PS as an Administrator (right click your PS shortcut and go to the Compatibility tab, and check the "Run As Administrator" box. Do that on the Bridge too). Reason is, PS writes to the Registry which standard permissions in Vista partially restrict. If PS can't write to the Registry, PS DOESN'T TELL YOU with a message box or anything. It just continues on with life. Maybe that's all you need.
Final Thought: the Photoshop edits that Marc Adamus uses (Levels, Dodge, Burn, Contrast, USM) could all be done in PE6... if you're familiar with his work there's an inspiration to not concentrate on the software, but on the image.
Posted by Jack Carbone on December 1, 2007 at 10:08 AM
Jim,
About 2 years ago I sold all my 35 mm film gear and went total digital. I also have a 5D and many "l" lenses to go with it and struggled with the same issue about photoshop.
I had been using earlier versions of elements for my film work, and upgraded to PE 5 which has more functionality with levels.
I do very little manipulation beyong exposure, levels, color enhancement, and simple layers.
After I went total digital I kept wondering if I should get into PS CS2 or PS CS3 (My wife is also eligible for the ed discounts) but I decided it really did more than I wanted or needed to do.
Instead, I went with Adobe Lightroom. It's easy to organize files, it provides all the tools for manipulation I need and will use. I can also edit photos from Lightroom to Elements.
I love the way LR handles files; you never really do any permanent changes to the original file, and you "history" features lets you track and modify all your changes.
As I understand it, LR it was developed for photographers who didn't need all the graphic design features of PS. PS is really good for designers and graphic artists.
Both Elements 5 and LR handle Canon raw files, which is how I shoot. It's a good combination for me.
You might want to check them out.
Posted by Mark Stahlke on December 1, 2007 at 1:07 PM
Another thing to consider is third party support for your chosen image editing software. By support I mean things like plug-ins, books, tutorials, tips & tricks. Going forward, I think you will find the widest variety of this type of support for CS3.
Posted by Jim Sabiston on December 11, 2007 at 9:33 PM
Finally getting back to this. Thanks for the help and comments. I was able to get CS2, Bridge and the Raw Converter to run on the Vista machine and all is -reasonably- well. I will stick with CS2 for a bit longer and go with the CS3 upgrase in the near future.
Also had to get a vista compatible driver for the Epson R2400! The machine practically choked on the XP setup disc!
Discussion
5 repliesI've been taking 'serious' photos for about 3 years now and decided to make the jump to SLR just a year ago(Canon 5D), along with associated lenses and software. My wife is a teacher's aid and we were able to qualify for the educational discount on CS2. I'm teaching myself all of this as I go along (and having much fun learning!). Here is my problem/question:
Adobe switched to CS3 about 3 months after I bought CS2. I checked on the upgrade and learned that Adobe charges nearly full price to upgrade!!
Of course, all the current drivers/raw/converter upgrades stop being backwards compatible at the same time!! Nice way to treat your customers!
Just to mix it up a bit, my old computer is showing signs of giving up the good fight and I just purchased an HP Tablet (nice and portable!)with Vista. I'm reloading all my software to the new machine without too many major bumps, but the CS2 raw/dng converter will not work. I've got the new drivers from Adobe and will try them tonite. I also bought a Canon G9 as my 'carry everywhere' camera and the G9 Raw files are not compatible with CS2 (see above).
I've worked around the G9 Raw/CS2 issue by converting the G9 photos to DNG with the stand alone raw/dng converter. It works, but adds several steps (and organizing headaches) to the workflow. But, it does get the job done on the old computer - and hopefully will once I get past the Vista OS.
Here is my main question: Can Adobe Elements handle raw files (does it use Camera Raw?)from the 5D and G9? If so, what am I giving up by 'downgrading' from CS2? At this stage of the game, by photo processing is pretty minimal. I primarily tweak exposure/contrast etc. in Camera Raw and sometimes fiddle with curves a bit in the TIFF file. I've recently found I can make some tweaks using layers that will turn a good photo into a really good photo and will be exploring this more in the future.
Comments, thoughts and suggestions are all welcome.
Oh, and thanks for this great site and forum. The input from the members here is invaluable!
Here is a short list of what you are giving up:
16bit support for many functions like layers and cloning.
Full functionality of curves
Layer masking (it can be done though some loopholes but adds steps)
Actions - even if you are not using these now, they can be a big time saver
Batch Processing - goes along with losing actions
Elements does have ACR built in, but you get fewer controls Elements 6 is supposed to be stable on Vista and is linked to the current ACR versions from Adobe (you may have to download an update for the G9)
Here is what you gain in Elements
A simplified but still powerful editor - I actually think the Elements Editor is a cleaner layout than CS2 or 3.
A nice database based organizer akin to Lightroom's library. I have a catalog (database) running on 95GB of images without any performance issues. The library allows many useful features including versioning, stacking, collections, tags and date based organization.
That said, I do not think I would backstep from CS2 to Elements 6. I plan to upgrade to CS3 and Lightroom in the near future.
Software becomes obsolete either because of hardware changes or other software changes. The best solution would be to upgrade to CS3. You might look at http://www.academicsuperstore.com/ to see if there is a better price for the academic version of CS3 for you.
Having said that, you could survive with PE, but why step back? You have limited 16-bit support in PE and no HDR. However, I imagine PE 6 has some better features than the 3.0 and 4.0 versions I'm used to. BUT, CS3 has some VERY nice features, such as improved B&W processing, SHARPENING AS A LAYER (best reason to upgrade), and a limited way to handle JPEGs as a RAW file. Plus the Bridge is quite helpful. But most of all, your RAW files will be supported now and in the future.
I run CS2 right now on Vista, and the single most important tip I can offer (besides 4GB RAM) is to run PS as an Administrator (right click your PS shortcut and go to the Compatibility tab, and check the "Run As Administrator" box. Do that on the Bridge too). Reason is, PS writes to the Registry which standard permissions in Vista partially restrict. If PS can't write to the Registry, PS DOESN'T TELL YOU with a message box or anything. It just continues on with life. Maybe that's all you need.
Final Thought: the Photoshop edits that Marc Adamus uses (Levels, Dodge, Burn, Contrast, USM) could all be done in PE6... if you're familiar with his work there's an inspiration to not concentrate on the software, but on the image.
About 2 years ago I sold all my 35 mm film gear and went total digital. I also have a 5D and many "l" lenses to go with it and struggled with the same issue about photoshop.
I had been using earlier versions of elements for my film work, and upgraded to PE 5 which has more functionality with levels.
I do very little manipulation beyong exposure, levels, color enhancement, and simple layers.
After I went total digital I kept wondering if I should get into PS CS2 or PS CS3 (My wife is also eligible for the ed discounts) but I decided it really did more than I wanted or needed to do.
Instead, I went with Adobe Lightroom. It's easy to organize files, it provides all the tools for manipulation I need and will use. I can also edit photos from Lightroom to Elements.
I love the way LR handles files; you never really do any permanent changes to the original file, and you "history" features lets you track and modify all your changes.
As I understand it, LR it was developed for photographers who didn't need all the graphic design features of PS. PS is really good for designers and graphic artists.
Both Elements 5 and LR handle Canon raw files, which is how I shoot. It's a good combination for me.
You might want to check them out.
Also had to get a vista compatible driver for the Epson R2400! The machine practically choked on the XP setup disc!
Thanks again!