I'm not a big fan of utube, but thought this was an interesting bit of video that all photographers here should see (pardon the language, and the guy may be a bit of a jerk, but he is right down the middle in his thinking). I come across this sort of thing frequently, and often get into the same kind of rant on the phone - what people ask for is just insane, and they think I am the rude one when I kindly ask to be paid for my work. Oops, don't want to get up on the soapbox here myself - better that you watch the video instead.
(Of course, there ARE times when it is OK to give your stuff away, but most of the time if your work is valuable enough for someone to want to publish it - and they are getting paid for their work - then your work is worth something and you should get paid for it. And when you are asked to give your work away, the first question you should ask is the very same question this guy asks - that stops them in their tracks.)
By the way, on a related funny note, the National Park Service in Washington, D. C. just this week wanted to buy "lifetime" rights to an image of mine - and told me they were a "non-profit agency" and could not afford to pay much for the image. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! Not only do they actually print money whenever they want it, but a majority of my income is paid directly to them, the u.s. government! Non-profit, sure. They paid me what I wanted for the image.
Posted by Gale Rainwater on December 4, 2007 at 10:13 AM
Point well taken!!
Wow this guy lets you know how he feels.
Tim on this subject the internet has basicly done this with the stock industry hasn't it.I know the idea for the phtographer is volume at a low price. But that is the idea of the stock companies have millions of people with a camera give us their images for free.
Your Thoughts?
Posted by TIMERNST on December 4, 2007 at 10:40 AM
I am kind of two-faced when it comes to online stock. On the one side, I purchase and use "royalty free" music for my slide programs (about $80 per CD), but I think it is pretty lame for photographers to sell their images for 25 cents per use - they are selling them and are being paid though. A third side would be that some of those photographers are making a lot of money doing just that so what the heck - they are not giving them away, and in the long run are making a good living so I can't fault them at all. I am against giving away photos for free as a general rule no matter who you are.
We are getting ready to launch a regional stock photo online agency but we will not be selling 25 cent photos - we'll be getting whatever the market will bear. This will give a lot of photographers the chance to have their work seen with and compete with pro photographers, although the buyer will be paying the same no matter what name is on the photo. I'll have an announcement about that here in a little while - we're still trying to work out the kinks in the database software, but a lot of the folks on this nature board will be part of this new venture...
Posted by Larry Daniel on December 4, 2007 at 12:33 PM
WHAT, one can sell photos?
Posted by Ed Cooley on December 4, 2007 at 12:37 PM
The usual con is that if you give us your photo for free it will get you exposure then someone else might be tempted to pay you for your work.
It doesn't matter that you have spent years of your personal time and untold dollars in equipment, tutorials, workshops, trips, etc.
Posted by TIMERNST on December 4, 2007 at 12:50 PM
Yup, I try that line on the power company all the time - "I will give you credit for providing the power to my home if you give me free power!" - hasn't worked yet though...
Posted by Bill Dark on December 4, 2007 at 5:37 PM
I agree with the writer. I can't believe any self-respecting business person would ask for free anything. But there have been occasions where I've offered to display my work for free in return for what I feel is the right kind of exposure. That can, and has, led to some profitable work for me.
uggg... I just had one of those calls this week, a local magazine publication called me wanting images on six different architecture projects that I shot in their median area. The messed up part is that they found my contact information from one of my clients and since they knew I was already payed by my client they got this crazy assumption that they could use the images for free! Not only does that screw me but it also stabs the original client in the back. These are also they same people who will call you and tell you how much they appreciate your work and how beautiful they think it is but at the same time do not want to pay you a dime which in reality is nothing but an insult.
I think one of the best points the writer made was the example on how you give your hard work away and they can't even take the time or consideration send you a free DVD... that is soooooo true, been there and learned from that mistake.
The only instances I now provide free work are for local non for profits that I know for sure are genuine or like mentioned above in a gallery exposure situation.
Another good bit of advice that I have learned from experience is that once you give someone something for free they will always expect it be free again in the future. Sometimes you might think "Well if I give this potential client some free images maybe they will use me for a real paying gig later" In my experience 99% of the time that will never happen and your much better off standing your ground right off the bat, if they can't pay you now for your work then they will not pay you in the future either.
Posted by TIMERNST on December 5, 2007 at 11:15 PM
Another issue with just about all non-profits (I run two of them so am in the same boat) is all this "give it to us and you can deduct it." The fact of the matter is that if you are a business person and you donate something to a charity you CANNOT deduct it! That is because you already have. Let's say that I give a picture book to someone - a $30 value. I have already deducted the cost of printing that book in my normal day-to-day expenses, so there is no way that I can take another deduction. How about an expensive print? If I donate a $1,000 print, the only part that I can deduct is the original cost of the materials, which I have already deducted when I bought the paper and ink!
And when you do make a contribution, not only can you not deduct it, but the state of Arkansas will come and hunt you down and force you to pay sales tax on the FULL RETAIL VALUE of the item! (plus penalty and interest). So if I give someone a $1,000 print that cost me $20 to make, I have to give the state $70 in sales taxes and still don't get any deduction!
I'm not against making contributions (we give about ten grand a year), but most people just don't realize there is really no legal tax deduction allowed.
Discussion
8 replies(Of course, there ARE times when it is OK to give your stuff away, but most of the time if your work is valuable enough for someone to want to publish it - and they are getting paid for their work - then your work is worth something and you should get paid for it. And when you are asked to give your work away, the first question you should ask is the very same question this guy asks - that stops them in their tracks.)
By the way, on a related funny note, the National Park Service in Washington, D. C. just this week wanted to buy "lifetime" rights to an image of mine - and told me they were a "non-profit agency" and could not afford to pay much for the image. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! Not only do they actually print money whenever they want it, but a majority of my income is paid directly to them, the u.s. government! Non-profit, sure. They paid me what I wanted for the image.
Here is the utube bit about giving your work away for free - DON'T GIVE YOUR WORK AWAY!
Wow this guy lets you know how he feels.
Tim on this subject the internet has basicly done this with the stock industry hasn't it.I know the idea for the phtographer is volume at a low price. But that is the idea of the stock companies have millions of people with a camera give us their images for free.
Your Thoughts?
We are getting ready to launch a regional stock photo online agency but we will not be selling 25 cent photos - we'll be getting whatever the market will bear. This will give a lot of photographers the chance to have their work seen with and compete with pro photographers, although the buyer will be paying the same no matter what name is on the photo. I'll have an announcement about that here in a little while - we're still trying to work out the kinks in the database software, but a lot of the folks on this nature board will be part of this new venture...
It doesn't matter that you have spent years of your personal time and untold dollars in equipment, tutorials, workshops, trips, etc.
I think one of the best points the writer made was the example on how you give your hard work away and they can't even take the time or consideration send you a free DVD... that is soooooo true, been there and learned from that mistake.
The only instances I now provide free work are for local non for profits that I know for sure are genuine or like mentioned above in a gallery exposure situation.
Another good bit of advice that I have learned from experience is that once you give someone something for free they will always expect it be free again in the future. Sometimes you might think "Well if I give this potential client some free images maybe they will use me for a real paying gig later" In my experience 99% of the time that will never happen and your much better off standing your ground right off the bat, if they can't pay you now for your work then they will not pay you in the future either.
And when you do make a contribution, not only can you not deduct it, but the state of Arkansas will come and hunt you down and force you to pay sales tax on the FULL RETAIL VALUE of the item! (plus penalty and interest). So if I give someone a $1,000 print that cost me $20 to make, I have to give the state $70 in sales taxes and still don't get any deduction!
I'm not against making contributions (we give about ten grand a year), but most people just don't realize there is really no legal tax deduction allowed.