Please excuse my lack of comments etc lately as I'm a bit tied up with work and other things at the moment. However I thought I'd share my first attempt at 5x4 as it arrived in the post today - over a month since I actually took the image.
I only took one shot and it really was a snapshot - large format or not it took just over a minute. I think I pulled the grad down a tad too far. The light was changing fast and I was way too busy with the digital to spend much time with the LF camera (I posted the digital version of this ages ago).
It was taken on Provia 100F and I'm moving straight to colour neg film from now on - why use a film with such limited latitude? I don't get peoples fixation with films such as Velvia, especially when you're digitizing it anyway. Whilst a 5x4 colour tranny is very nice to hold up and view, personally I'll take flexibility of colour neg any day.
Tristan
Ebony 5x4, 60mm f/4 Nikon - 1 second at f/22 (I think).
3 stop ND grad
Posted by Marko Trebušak on December 12, 2007 at 1:29 AM
Hi Tristan,
I notice your absence, but I was there also, so my sympathies.
I comment on your digital version and that still stands: clouds are incredible and so is reflection. But I feel that there is a bit too much emptiness in your frame. But that aside: is vigneting your deliberate attempt in PS or your lens doesn’t have a sufficient coverage? I'm a bit puzzled by your lens, as I never heard of it.
One more comment: colour negative should be fine, but remember that it's in a field of its own when it comes to scanning, because one needs to remove orange mask and make accurate colour conversions. If you are able to do that, or you are able to find someone to do that for you, then fine. On the other hand you might try Fuji Astia first to see, if that film is sufficient. It's still tranny, but meant for portrait photography and have quite neutral colours and bigger exposure latitude than Provia or Velvia (or so I'm told).
Marko - there could very well be vignetting - I've not added any in PS like I usually do here. However there are moving dark clouds entering the frame in both top corners which may be adding to it. I have a couple of daylight frames and vignetting isnt noticable to me. I don't indend on buying a centre filter for the lens based on the first few shots I've taken with it. The foreground is very dark heather with virtually no light on it and I probably under exposed it a little. On the comp this is only a test shot and I was very limited in where I could place the camera as there was a rather large drop just behind me. I've got some Kodak Portra which I intend trying next - scanning colour negs is not a problem. Thanks, Tristan
Posted by Andy Astbury on December 12, 2007 at 4:10 AM
Tristan - for what it's worth, I used to shoot 5x4 architectural a lot during the '80s, Agfa RS was my sheet of choice because of its ability to cope with larger subject brightness ranges and totally neutral colour balance.
When the time came to pass when this product ceased, and being desperate not to have to rely on Kodak because even back then it suffered with poor exposure lattitude, I switched to Fujichrome.
Its lattitude was nearly equal to the Agfa, though you had to be selective about where you had it processed - if the labs chemicals were not as fresh as possible quite often the image would have a slight 'cold' look to it.
I know all this is 30odd years past, but if I was in your position I'd try the Fuji as Marko suggested before jumping to neg.
The other thing I used to do a lot when images were to be printed for large display at a commercial 4 colour lab was have a 10x8 dupe made from the original 5x4 - labs always seemed to be happier with these than the 5x4 original - don't know if it would be of any benefit in todays scanning process - but it might be worth a try
Posted by Graeme Lee on December 12, 2007 at 8:51 AM
Know nothing about the lingo you guys are talking, but this looks a tad dark on my normally overly bright work monitor and detail is lacking in the shadows. Maybe due to the lack of range?
Posted by Paul Everett on December 12, 2007 at 9:32 AM
I am very envious, have wanted to have a go at LF myself. Agree with the comments about the lack of detail in the shadows, also horizon seems to tilted slightly, or maybe that's just me
Beautiful sky though, superb pastel colours, and the reflections in the puddles work nicely.
Well done
Paul
Posted by Tom Perkins on December 12, 2007 at 2:31 PM
Hi Tristan,
Nice to see something from your RSW, how are you scanning yours, and what do you think of the system, are you going to stick with it?
I understand your frustration with transparency film. I have a box of fuji 160s colour negative in the fridge that I hope to try out soon. If it has a much better range I may well switch too.
Tom.
Posted by John Varley on December 12, 2007 at 4:00 PM
Hi Tristan - I think the clouds and reflections are really fine.But the background especially near the horizon is too dark and featureless - though the detail is probably present just needs bringing up a bit.
I am also curious about how you are doing your scanning. I'm curious about 5x4, but 35mm ff is more than enough for me at present.
Thanks for the thoughts on this one. I'm going with Kodak Portra as it comes in ready loads which seem much easier. I couldnt find a fuji colour neg film in quickload - not sure if they do it or not. It could probably do with the horizon straightning a bit but there is also a natural slope here. Only a test shot.
Tom: too early to say if I am going to stick with it or not. I'll probably give it a year before I decide so I can use it properly under different conditions. Its only been out of the bag once so far. Saying that, I think I've only been out of the house twice! :-) Thanks for the black jumper tip - far more effective than a proper dark cloth. I'm hoping colour negs will scan better than trannies as well as having much better dynamic range. Do you not miss digital at all?
John: Scanning on a little Epson which is ok for web stuf, though doesnt seem good at shadows. If I get anything decent I'll get it professionally scanned if I need a print.
Posted by Tom Perkins on December 14, 2007 at 12:11 PM
Hi Tristan,
To be honest, I do miss digital in some ways. I love the versatility and speed of the DSLR, and the ability to handhold the camera and grab shots in just a few seconds. However I was not happy with the resolution from my previous camera (d200) for prints A3+ or larger. Also, I was getting a bit stuck in a rut with my images after a while. A change in system has helped me get out of that and start improving again. My way of seeing images is definitely more deliberate now, although I try to still be reasonably instinctive about it. I would not be anywhere now without my my time with digital (20,000+ shutter count ), however a year ago I would never have been able to compose stuff like this.
At some point I'm sure I will switch back, I dislike waiting for stuff to get developed, scanning etc, but, for the moment, LF is the best affordable (relative ) way to shoot landscapes and get the sorts of results I'm looking for.
Don't given up on the tranny as its where the color stuff shines.
I have a load of 'old' Velvia 50 here if you want some to play with - no charge other than postage costs as it is left over from the last job; it's slightly out of date but obviously refridgerated. Tom if you want some you are welcome.
I won't be using the 4x5 format in the near future as I have no 4x5 requests on the horizon, to be honest the 1ds3 (for me) may see the death of it, mainly due to the general speed of delivery of digital and resolution of the 1ds3 (esp if I get a Zeiss Distagon lens - much sharper in the corners than any Canon wide angle).
I'll be keeping 'old faithful' (techno 612) with its 65mm Schneider though
TomP: I find using a different camera format can be a great way of exploring new things and getting out of ruts. I often use my 35mm film cameras on such occasions. From now on it will the LF rather than 35mm. Not finding time for the LF is probably my biggest problem at the moment. Limited time means working quickly to make the most of what you have. Since I need my digital to use as a meter anyway I need it with me and then I find I don't make enough time for the LF. However I always have seen LF as for use on specific pre-planned images. Digital will always be my main medium. I bet you find you use digital in a different way once you get back to it.
TomW: In what way do colour trannies shine above negs? I just cannot see any advantage when the end goal is to digitize the image. However on Velvia 50 I'll certainly take you up on that if you're absolutely sure as I've hardly any film.
I need to get my images to earn enough to get a 1ds3 .... that'll be the day.
Thanks,
Tristan
Discussion
11 repliesI only took one shot and it really was a snapshot - large format or not it took just over a minute. I think I pulled the grad down a tad too far. The light was changing fast and I was way too busy with the digital to spend much time with the LF camera (I posted the digital version of this ages ago).
It was taken on Provia 100F and I'm moving straight to colour neg film from now on - why use a film with such limited latitude? I don't get peoples fixation with films such as Velvia, especially when you're digitizing it anyway. Whilst a 5x4 colour tranny is very nice to hold up and view, personally I'll take flexibility of colour neg any day.
Tristan
Ebony 5x4, 60mm f/4 Nikon - 1 second at f/22 (I think).
3 stop ND grad
I notice your absence, but I was there also, so my sympathies.
I comment on your digital version and that still stands: clouds are incredible and so is reflection. But I feel that there is a bit too much emptiness in your frame. But that aside: is vigneting your deliberate attempt in PS or your lens doesn’t have a sufficient coverage? I'm a bit puzzled by your lens, as I never heard of it.
One more comment: colour negative should be fine, but remember that it's in a field of its own when it comes to scanning, because one needs to remove orange mask and make accurate colour conversions. If you are able to do that, or you are able to find someone to do that for you, then fine. On the other hand you might try Fuji Astia first to see, if that film is sufficient. It's still tranny, but meant for portrait photography and have quite neutral colours and bigger exposure latitude than Provia or Velvia (or so I'm told).
Cheers,
Marko
When the time came to pass when this product ceased, and being desperate not to have to rely on Kodak because even back then it suffered with poor exposure lattitude, I switched to Fujichrome.
Its lattitude was nearly equal to the Agfa, though you had to be selective about where you had it processed - if the labs chemicals were not as fresh as possible quite often the image would have a slight 'cold' look to it.
I know all this is 30odd years past, but if I was in your position I'd try the Fuji as Marko suggested before jumping to neg.
The other thing I used to do a lot when images were to be printed for large display at a commercial 4 colour lab was have a 10x8 dupe made from the original 5x4 - labs always seemed to be happier with these than the 5x4 original - don't know if it would be of any benefit in todays scanning process - but it might be worth a try
Beautiful sky though, superb pastel colours, and the reflections in the puddles work nicely.
Well done
Paul
Nice to see something from your RSW, how are you scanning yours, and what do you think of the system, are you going to stick with it?
I understand your frustration with transparency film. I have a box of fuji 160s colour negative in the fridge that I hope to try out soon. If it has a much better range I may well switch too.
Tom.
I am also curious about how you are doing your scanning. I'm curious about 5x4, but 35mm ff is more than enough for me at present.
Have fun
Tom: too early to say if I am going to stick with it or not. I'll probably give it a year before I decide so I can use it properly under different conditions. Its only been out of the bag once so far. Saying that, I think I've only been out of the house twice! :-) Thanks for the black jumper tip - far more effective than a proper dark cloth. I'm hoping colour negs will scan better than trannies as well as having much better dynamic range. Do you not miss digital at all?
John: Scanning on a little Epson which is ok for web stuf, though doesnt seem good at shadows. If I get anything decent I'll get it professionally scanned if I need a print.
To be honest, I do miss digital in some ways. I love the versatility and speed of the DSLR, and the ability to handhold the camera and grab shots in just a few seconds. However I was not happy with the resolution from my previous camera (d200) for prints A3+ or larger. Also, I was getting a bit stuck in a rut with my images after a while. A change in system has helped me get out of that and start improving again. My way of seeing images is definitely more deliberate now, although I try to still be reasonably instinctive about it. I would not be anywhere now without my my time with digital (20,000+ shutter count
At some point I'm sure I will switch back, I dislike waiting for stuff to get developed, scanning etc, but, for the moment, LF is the best affordable (relative
Tom.
Don't given up on the tranny as its where the color stuff shines.
I have a load of 'old' Velvia 50 here if you want some to play with - no charge other than postage costs as it is left over from the last job; it's slightly out of date but obviously refridgerated. Tom if you want some you are welcome.
I won't be using the 4x5 format in the near future as I have no 4x5 requests on the horizon, to be honest the 1ds3 (for me) may see the death of it, mainly due to the general speed of delivery of digital and resolution of the 1ds3 (esp if I get a Zeiss Distagon lens - much sharper in the corners than any Canon wide angle).
I'll be keeping 'old faithful' (techno 612) with its 65mm Schneider though
T
TomW: In what way do colour trannies shine above negs? I just cannot see any advantage when the end goal is to digitize the image. However on Velvia 50 I'll certainly take you up on that if you're absolutely sure as I've hardly any film.
I need to get my images to earn enough to get a 1ds3 .... that'll be the day.
Thanks,
Tristan